3 turning questions - 2 on returning, 1 on precision

[Evanism]

Sorry for the multi-post, but its all chicken and egg.

I make a bazillion of these each fortnight. They are kids coat racks, stand 1200 tall and have 4 mushroom-styled coat knobs. They sell in kids stores as part of a kids range I make. (Im only a grunt part timer with close to zero skill, so dont get too envious!)

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The picture is one thats unfinished, but with two of the basic styles of "shroom". They can be custom ordered. Different lengths, widths at base (standard is 16mm) or heads.

To save myself time (because I'm terrifically slow... glaciatic) I make up a bunch of 'shrooms and then return them to spec upon receiving the orders.

My main difficulties lay in:

- the end caps are smooth
- ensuring the ends that get stuck into the upright are as exact as possible
- ensuring they are all identical


END CAPS: If I make a completed shroom (I turn them between centres) I turn off the end bits, put the stalk into a set of Teknatool pin jaws. I then sand the head to remove the little bit of remaining end where the separator doesn't quite finish it (Also, sand the whole head to the exact shape). There are a few problems here..the pin jaws mark the stalk as it tightens and the head isn't easily centred (It bobs around until I force it into centre).

I cant find a set of jaws to hold long stalky things without marking. Should I make my own? Turn up a thick chunk of wood, drill a deep ~12-16mm hole and cut it into 4 to effectively "make" my own set of deep jaws? Is this the best approach?

EXACTITUDE! Since these are being stuck into an upright and have kids jackets flung on them (amongst other abuses), I use a forstner bit to bore the required 15-degree hole in the upright. I want to ensure a very tight fit for the shroom, so I use sandpaper (the horror!) to sand it to an absolute hair above the required size. I made an MDF template to guestimate-fit over it until I get close, then use an accurate open-ended car spanner to finish sand to. When I can jam the spanner over, it will be tight.

Does this feel like a good approach? Its slow, uses a fair bit of sanding (sometimes) but it is accurate. This ensures the stick is stuck in, as it were. (Glue is used too, post shipping)

Is there a better method?

EXACTITUDE OF OVERALL SHAPE: this is not overly critical as I can get very very close but its slooowwww (and I suspect the answer is practice practice practice), but to get the basic schroom, I "get close" by eye (make a round spindle, mark the high lows with pencil, etc) and then use a template I made out of 3mm MDF so when it slips over the length profile it will be pretty damn close. (there are a few templates, one for profile, the others for the various diameters of the stalk and head)... is this "template" based methodology commonly used or even the right approach? (e.g. how are chess pawns made with such precision by hand?)

This picture shows what I mean by "templates". I hope they are self evident.

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[turnerted]

Instead of shaping the job between centres then putting it in the chuck to finish it,why not put it in the chuck right at the start, then you can shape and finish the top of the mushroom and bring the shaft down to the size you need, check with vernier calipers.If necessary,turn up a fitting to fit on your live centre with a hollow in it to suport the mushroom head . Make them slightly longer than the longest one you need ,then as required , cut to length on a bandsaw or by hand.
Ted

[KBs PensNmore]

Hi Evanism, sounds like you need a copy lathe, Woodfast use to make an attachment that fitted onto a normal lathe converting it into a copy lathe, whether it is still made, I have no idea, as it would be cheaper than to get a Symtec that it was designed for. I have also seen a tenoning jig that was available, similar to the old time wheelwrights that was used for making wooden spokes tenons. Unfortunately CRAFT disease has struck, so I can't remember where I saw it. Instead of using a wood turning chuck, an ER 25 collet system might be better to hold the tenoned end, as they grip the whole area apart from a mm or so on the take up, giving very little damage in the area. I have also seem a system that used a router for making something similar to what you are looking for. Depending on the type of bed on your lathe, which can be made as a flat bed by using some melamine chipboard, a box was made with a slippery base, to hold a router on top of the "tenoned area" and was slowly moved back and forth over the area, once it was set to the height. This box could also incorporate an outlet for the dusty to take away the chips.
If you want anymore details send me a PM and I'll do a drawing to help, you'll need a router with micro adjustment up and down.
Kryn

[Christos]

I have seen this on youtube where the person used a spanner to bring the thickness down to final dimension. One side of the spanner was sharpen.

I am not sure which one it was but if you do a search on Capt Eddie Castelin from within Youtube you will find his channel. He has over 200 uploads but I think it was in the middle about 100 or so. Look for finals.

[Evanism]

I have seen this on youtube where the person used a spanner to bring the thickness down to final dimension. One side of the spanner was sharpened.

Hahahaha! WELL, its very funny you should mention that.... I did this but didn't reveal it. One side of that 16mm is flattened on the grinder! I was very fearful of being shot down over such an exceptionally dangerous practice.

I actually do worse... a LOT worse! I have a 17mm spanner and the tips are sharpened. I shove the spanner on a little way up from the end, slowly, then move it left, slowly....it acts like (and I took the idea from) a Robert Sorby Sizing Gauge! It slices cleanly like a skew, but gives me a neat 17mm to then sand down....

I DO turn the speed down, focus and haven't had a catch yet. Its a small diameter too so it sits completely within the spanners centre.

Dont shoot me! :C

[Christos]

.............END CAPS: If I make a completed shroom (I turn them between centres) I turn off the end bits, put the stalk into a set of Teknatool pin jaws. I then sand the head to remove the little bit of remaining end where the separator doesn't quite finish it (Also, sand the whole head to the exact shape). There are a few problems here..the pin jaws mark the stalk as it tightens and the head isn't easily centred (It bobs around until I force it into centre).

I cant find a set of jaws to hold long stalky things without marking. Should I make my own? Turn up a thick chunk of wood, drill a deep ~12-16mm hole and cut it into 4 to effectively "make" my own set of deep jaws? Is this the best approach?.........


I split this into two replies as I am not sure if this is going to work in your situation.(So might be giving you more work or I might just inspire someone. :unsure:)

Out of a block of wood where the grain runs parallel to the bed create a round piece and mount it in the chuck. Ensure that it is round and the end is squared up after mounting in the chuck. Make a grove to hold a hose clamp where you can tighten. Using your tailstock with a Jacobs chuck and Forstner bit drill a hole the size of the partially made shrooms.

Take the round block of wood out of your chuck to the bandsaw and cut slots into the end grain to about just after the grove that you made for the hose clamp.

To use this you will mount the block in the chuck, insert the shroom, tighten the hose clamp.

Somethings to note;
1. Before removing the block mark the position to ensure that this is lined up in the same position in the chuck. (Might be better to use a faceplate to for the block of wood? I am not sure.)
2. Put the hose clamp on so the loose bit is not spinning towards you.
3. Better option would be to tape down the end of the hose clamp after tightening.
4. Remember where this is when turning.
5. Do not over tighten the hose clamp.

As I said in the beginning I am not sure if this is going to work for you. I have used this method to hold scoops so that I can finish off the scoop part. I managed to finish one practice scoop when I over tighten and cracked the block. So it is possible to exert quite a lot of pressure to hold the piece.

As there is a difference between the ball end of the scoop and the shaft of the shroom, it might be better to have two hose clamps?

[Christos]

Hahahaha! WELL, its very funny you should mention that.... I did this but didn't reveal it. One side of that 16mm is flattened on the grinder! I was very fearful of being shot down over such an exceptionally dangerous practice.

........


I mention this because I think it is safe. You will only be taking the final cut and the spanner is hard up against the tool rest before entering the wood. I just can not remember which side the spanner sits face up or down. :roll:

I have seen it on Capt Eddie youtube channel and he does explain how to do it.

[Sturdee]

Hahahaha! WELL, its very funny you should mention that.... I did this but didn't reveal it. One side of that 16mm is flattened on the grinder! I was very fearful of being shot down over such an exceptionally dangerous practice.

I actually do worse... a LOT worse! I have a 17mm spanner and the tips are sharpened. I shove the spanner on a little way up from the end, slowly, then move it left, slowly....it acts like (and I took the idea from) a Robert Sorby Sizing Gauge! It slices cleanly like a skew, but gives me a neat 17mm to then sand down....

I DO turn the speed down, focus and haven't had a catch yet. Its a small diameter too so it sits completely within the spanners centre.

Dont shoot me! :C

I do it too, but I put a long handle on it so that it becomes a proper tool and I also grind the edge of the spanner handle flat. More accurate to hold and slide better on the tool rest.

Peter.

[Evanism]

I have seen this on youtube where the person used a spanner to bring the thickness down to final dimension. One side of the spanner was sharpen.

I am not sure which one it was but if you do a search on Capt Eddie Castelin from within Youtube you will find his channel. He has over 200 uploads but I think it was in the middle about 100 or so. Look for finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qATykxAuZ-E at the 5 minute mark-ish.

:)

[jefferson]

What's wrong with using an 8mm parting tool and a set of verniers? Don't even have to turn the lathe off, just peel cut and measure. Simple. An accurate? If you're looking at a standard measurement all day long, I reckon you'd get pretty close with 2-4 measures.

[stuffy]

Shaker pegs normally have a shoulder where the tenon meets the body or stem, it makes them much stronger.

If you're drilling at an angle you would probably have to drill a 2nd hole the size of the shoulder so it can sit flush.

I would turn them between centres. Tenon at tailstock end sized exactly with a wide parting tool.

Shape the body then the head and part off with the skew.

This should leave just a dot at the centre that is easily sanded off by hand or by touching it to a soft rotary sanding pad.

If your making lots make yourself a pin gauge to get the length marks right and trust your eyes to get the shape right.

HTH

Steve.

[Evanism]

Shaker pegs normally have a shoulder where the tenon meets the body or stem, it makes them much stronger.

If you're drilling at an angle you would probably have to drill a 2nd hole the size of the shoulder so it can sit flush.

I would turn them between centres. Tenon at tailstock end sized exactly with a wide parting tool.

Shape the body then the head and part off with the skew.

This should leave just a dot at the centre that is easily sanded off by hand or by touching it to a soft rotary sanding pad.

If your making lots make yourself a pin gauge to get the length marks right and trust your eyes to get the shape right.

Excellent advice. I turn between centers and do it with the head at the tail stock end. I'll try flipping it. The dot is sanded off by hand, but I was unhappy that it wasn't nice and round. I went to Bunnings and looked at all the knobs there. The quality wasn't fantastic and I already do better, but there must have been a way to achieve making them with more speed and "scale" (I'm far too slow)

Thank you very much for the shaker advice. Those dudes really knew their stuff!

[hughie]

I have seen this on youtube where the person used a spanner to bring the thickness down to final dimension. One side of the spanner was sharpen.

I am not sure which one it was but if you do a search on Capt Eddie Castelin from within Youtube you will find his channel. He has over 200 uploads but I think it was in the middle about 100 or so. Look for finals.


This sort of tool is the one commonly used by green chair makers to size the tenons etc

[chuck1]

Lots of practice and speed will come! If I was closer I would come turn some!

[Paul39]

Evanisim,

Have you considered buying pegs? See:

http://www.americanwoodcrafterssupply.com/catalog/?shaker_pegs&show=category&productCategoryID=6584&productCategoryIDs=6033,6584

https://www.google.com/#q=buy+shaker+pegs

You are in Berlin?

As said above practice will make you faster. Also looking at your set up and figuring the least movements per piece will help.

[Evanism]

Thanks for the links. I've ordered a few books from Amazon on Shaker furniture plus borrowed a few more (I have some, but it covered bigger furniture).

The purchasing is a good idea :) but the client wanted a distinct design. I don't mind turning them as my time isn't limited (I don't work ATM as my wife is hugely sick)... These jobs fill the gaps.

Berlin :), no Canberra in Australia. I put Das Kapital as a joke. The people here are intense socialists, but are 90% public servants. They don't get the hypocracy that socialism is driven from the division of productive labour, not rent seeking and banking. Since paying for public servants is the worst form of taxation distribution and most own rental properties, Karl Marx would be rolling in his grave! Hence the double entrende. I agree, it might be a bit esoteric :)

[chuck1]

What's wrong with using an 8mm parting tool and a set of verniers? Don't even have to turn the lathe off, just peel cut and measure. Simple. An accurate? If you're looking at a standard measurement all day long, I reckon you'd get pretty close with 2-4 measures.

If you don't mind grinding the points off the verniers makes much safer! I have grinded mine and it stops the being pinched at work!