How many turners wear Face Shields?

[Mobyturns]

After viewing the great photos of DUTA I noticed what I usually see in albums of event photos world wide so it is a universal trait - the scarcity of Face Shields and eye / face protection.

Given that there are very good comfortable & practical Face Shields like the Armadillo available for less than $40 in Australia, and other options like the Bionic - it is not common to see them used at DUTA & similar events or indeed in club workshops. When we see the common & typical mishaps, like the cracked bowl in Robert Brown's photos of DUTA, that create a flying object of a few ounces (for the oldies) or 50-60g or more there is a lot of reassurance in wearing PPE / face shields to protect from minor to serious eye injuries. A quality face shield with brow protection & a good harness will also offer substantial protection or at least mitigate the severity of injuries from larger impacts like a small bowl going AWOL from a chuck.

Face shields are actually a high order engineered solution to protect from very common eye / face injuries as they intervene in the path between the almost continuous flying object / particles we create while hand turning and the eye / face.

In a "workplace" employers & workers would be cautioned & liable for fines for breaches of legislation for "workers" not wearing compliant PPE in similar "work" environments, however as hobbyists we have a greater motive - self preservation. No turner likes to be injured & away from the workshop / lathe.

I often wonder,

Why there is so much resistance to wearing face shields?

Is it because many turners perceive that,

There is little risk of injury?

The frequency (chance) of injuries is low? & the severity of potential injuries is minor?

Lower quality face shields (splash guards) offer little protection - so why bother to wear them?

They are impractical / cumbersome to wear? Interfere with conversations?

Other limitations like fogging, static holding dust to the shield make them impractical? Weight on the head?

Optical clarity - distortion to vision, scratches etc?

Its "dorky" wearing one?

How many turners,

Use no eye/face protection at all? Sometimes? Often? All the time?

Rely on prescription spectacles only? (very minimal protection from direct impacts only - generally spectacles do not meet AS1337 / Z87)

Approved safety spectacles or goggles / over goggles to AS1337 / Z87? (good protection for eyes, not so good for face)

Use a flimsy "splash guard" style face shield? (worthwhile protection for light duty turnings, pens & small spindle projects only)

A more robust face shield that meets medium or high impact ratings to AS1337 / Z87?

Other higher protection - like riot shields etc?

Of course the choice of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) including eye / face protection is or should be related to the mass, size & condition of turning blanks and complexity of the turning project, and potential for things to go wrong BUT how often do we consider the benefits of PPE?

I would greatly value all opinions on this matter even if people wish to PM me instead of making a public comment.

[michael_m]

I use a high-impact rated faceshield that has a chin guard. I've always worn a faceshield, even when pen turning.

I've only ever had one formal lesson on using the lathe, from the woodwork teacher at work. But before he took me through the basics of turning, he made me sit an online lathe safety course, which amongst other things emphasised the necessity for eye and face protection. I guess that has stuck with me. I value my eyesight more than I value looking cool (not that anyone ever sees me turn).

Actually, that is the real reason I use a full faceshield; I turn alone, often with no-one else around in the house or property. If anything were to come off the lathe and hit me, I'm not likely to have anyone around to help me. So anything that minimises injury and increases the chances of me helping myself is a good thing to be using.

Cheers, Mike

[BobL]

Mobyturns, this would make a good topic for a Poll. That way you won't have to trawl the threads to get the data.

FWIW, I wear an Armadillo for wood and metal turning.

[Christos]

Personally I believe that every turner should be wearing a full face shield.

Before I started in wood turning I was not sure I wanted to take up wood turning. The face shield that I purchase could be considered as cheap in price. I used it for quite a while and found that it was not giving me protection of shavings coming under the shield. To compensate for this I found that I was tilting my head forward which would mean the top of my head would be exposed.

I have swapped to using a fuller face shield that covers the neck and comes under the chin, the Armadillo is the one that I have.

I have kept the original face shield as a secondary to be used when someone is instructing a new turner. Like just the other day I had a friend in the garage doing some turning, he wore the Armadillo and I was wearing the original. I was not doing any turning just watching over him.

Now I might be digressing a little bit but I think it is relevant.
On Sunday I attended my wood turning meeting and one of our members had a cut and some bruising under his eye. The roughing spindle gouge had broken at the tang and flew back which struck him on the face. He confirmed that from now on he will be wearing his face shield at the lathe.

[chambezio]

I need to wear prescription glasses now as my vision is secombing to "old age". All through my time in the trade using power tools and machinery of all kinds, I find that I "need" to look at the cutting tool to make accurate cuts. Growing up in an era where PPE was not compulsory I just never got into the habit of using PPE. Now, as I said, I need to where glasses to see up close I find a full face shield is not comfortable for me to see clearly enough to work. (Thankfully) As yet I haven't had many unwanted smacks in the face from what I am working on. Sanding can be a little annoying with the fine dust wanting to get on the glasses. I also have Tinnitus and so wearing ear muffs is really annoying between tasks when you turn a tool/machine off, the quietness is what I don't like and have to have the radio on as back ground noise.

[Ironwood]

These days the majority of my turning is just pens. I dont use a face shield only safety glasses. I do have an Armadillo shield hanging near the lathe ready for bigger jobs.

Many years ago a face shield saved me from a potentially serious injury. A bowl that I was turning, exploded and I copped the full force of about 1/4 of it into the faceshield, the force of it gave me a sore nose, lucky I had the shield on, it was a "Protector Safety" shield, rather flimsy compared to an Armadillo, but still saved me.
That day I vowed to always wear one for lathe work. I have relaxed for pen turning, but not for anything larger.

[mat_au]

i dont turn without one i have one close call when i first started turning. Ever since then dont start my lathe with out one on

i use the Bionic

[Mobyturns]

I need to wear prescription glasses now as my vision is secombing to "old age". All through my time in the trade using power tools and machinery of all kinds, I find that I "need" to look at the cutting tool to make accurate cuts. Growing up in an era where PPE was not compulsory I just never got into the habit of using PPE. Now, as I said, I need to where glasses to see up close I find a full face shield is not comfortable for me to see clearly enough to work. (Thankfully) As yet I haven't had many unwanted smacks in the face from what I am working on. Sanding can be a little annoying with the fine dust wanting to get on the glasses. I also have Tinnitus and so wearing ear muffs is really annoying between tasks when you turn a tool/machine off, the quietness is what I don't like and have to have the radio on as back ground noise.

Could you give a bit on info on the type of shield you were using. Was it an acrylic (flexible) or poly carbonate (rigid) shield. I'm interested as optical clarity is one item I should have mentioned.

[rob streeper]

I use both 3m safety glasses and a UVEX face shield for wood turning. The UVEX is nice because they also make a #5 filter that can be used for oxy acetylene torch work.

[DavidG]

I use an Airshield pro.

[stuffy]

Thankyou for starting this thread.:2tsup:

I've been slack about wearing ppe in the past.

A couple of close calls and reading about Lynne Yamaguchi's accident have changed my thinking.

http://www.lynneyamaguchi.com/wordpress/2012/09/28/an-accident/

It's not just beginners who have accidents.

Standing out of the line of fire is no defence for not wearing a faceshield.

Even a small chip in the eye can cause majar damage.

Faceshields are cheap so why risk it?

Steve.

[Allen Neighbors]

I wear a cheap face shield except when I have forgotten to buy a replacement lens when the used one gets too scratched or covered with superglue to see through. My spectacles are bullet proof.
I've been hurt only once, and since then, my cheapie shield has saved me from hurt more than a few times.

[Old Croc]

Moby, i have found a lot of limitations with face shields for my individual situation. I run a 600mm fan beside the lathe and found the wind from it used to blow debris behind the shield into my glasses and there was always static buildup on the shield. I did notice distortion with some of the models. I found that foam lined Uvex goggles with my dust masks suited me better and I have almost eliminated the fogging of my glasses on our very humid days. But in saying that, for any work on my spark grinders, linishing belts or especially with the wire buffing wheels I use a safety cap with a face shield from my chainsaw. I personally have found this is more comfortable for my boofhead than the faceshields you mentioned. It has a lambswool liner and the harness rubs less on my bald scone.
Never say never, but with the variable speed on my lathe and careful attention to where I stand and listening to what the wood and tools are telling me, I hope this keeps me out of real harms way. Just my $0.20 worth.
rgds,
Crocy.

[dennisk]

I use a Helmet with built in ear protection and face screen,sold by Husqvarna. Its designed for chainsaw work. Im always wearing a mask and hearing protection anyway and the tip up face shield works for me. Somebody asked me if the screen bothers me, its like watching a sporting event through a chain link fence,just concentrate on the players.

[Ilya]

When I am turning pens or other small spindles, I wear only prescription safety glasses. When I turn anything bigger, I wear Armadillo (in addition to safety prescription glasses), very comfortable, thanks nz_carver for putting me onto this faceshield.

Wait till Evanism sees this thread, he has good arguments to prove that the mask should be worn at all times near the working lathe. I was quickly convinced...

[Evanism]

Ilya is spot on.

Here is a picture of my miserable head. This is what happens when you aren't wearing a face shield:

325512

There is a thread in "safety" about it. But...the basics are: a large bowl of Russian Olive broke in half, along an invisible crack and one half went DIRECTLY to my face. It had a fair speed on it too as I was doing sanding. BAM. Half a kilo at 1/10th the speed of light and there was blood absolutely everywhere, instantly it sprayed out, not just of my nostrils, but where it majorly lacerated my right nostril and to a lesser extent the left. It badly broke my nose in two significant places.... down on the bridge and up between my eyes - in the damn bone.

It was an intensely shattering blow. Absolutely stunning. Blinding white light, all sound gone, blood flying everywhere.

4 trips to the hospital, one for surgery 4 or so weeks after the event to correct the resultant deviation.

Now, its healed and the surgeon was a genius. I look like Brad Pitt :) but, seriously, that picture is tame compared to others I have (I'm obviously hamming it up a bit). You can see in the middle, it was split right open. I think the photo was 3 days after and the swelling and black eyes have barely started...I looked like Mike Tyson used me in a fight. (my wife caught a lot of ribbing in public :B )

Wear a face mask. Wear a face mask. Wear a face mask. Wear a face mask. Wear a face mask. Wear a face mask.

I was bloody lucky. It could have been my teeth or an eye. Then I would have been very forkin fooked then.

There is no occasion where I dont wear my impact mask now (except on the bandsaw, where I use googles. My mask is a good one from BOC: http://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au-boc-industrial-store/face-shields/boc-clear-visor-with-chinguard

[chuck1]

I have a 3M versaflo, the tear off are a good investment to prolong the faceshield it's easier to get any sap splatters off ! Also great when using the router.
I wear it at work and home. And use safety glasses on some small quick turning jobs
The boss likes to yell over p.a to remind workers from time to time
so I would say 80% of my lathe time I have faceshield on! And safety glass the rest.
I can usually call what might want to leave the lathe but when production turning at work I just chuck it on , it's good in summer having a cool breeze blowing over my face! Long as I remember to recharge the battery pack!

[Mobyturns]

A couple of close calls and reading about Lynne Yamaguchi's accident have changed my thinking.

http://www.lynneyamaguchi.com/wordpress/2012/09/28/an-accident/

It's not just beginners who have accidents.

Lynne & I have exchanged quite a few emails in the lead up to the AAW symposium this year. Her blog should be compulsory reading for every wood turner. I have seen photos far worse than Evanism's mug shot & Lynne's after the injury shot was quite nasty & right up there on the gore meter.

The hit Evanism describes is close to what Lynne experienced and is not an uncommon event. What we tend to forget is that quite a few wood turners have died from injuries received at the lathe.

[Mobyturns]

Moby, i have found a lot of limitations with face shields for my individual situation. I run a 600mm fan beside the lathe and found the wind from it used to blow debris behind the shield into my glasses and there was always static buildup on the shield. I did notice distortion with some of the models. I found that foam lined Uvex goggles with my dust masks suited me better and I have almost eliminated the fogging of my glasses on our very humid days. But in saying that, for any work on my spark grinders, linishing belts or especially with the wire buffing wheels I use a safety cap with a face shield from my chainsaw. I personally have found this is more comfortable for my boofhead than the faceshields you mentioned. It has a lambswool liner and the harness rubs less on my bald scone.
Never say never, but with the variable speed on my lathe and careful attention to where I stand and listening to what the wood and tools are telling me, I hope this keeps me out of real harms way. Just my $0.20 worth.
rgds,
Crocy.

Crocy,

As we know each other pretty well I know your background etc & respect your assessment of the hazards you face and the procedures you have in place to control them in your situation. Because I require prescription lenses for detail work I can't wear the Uvex safety spectacles at the lathe but I do wear them around operating machinery.

Cheers
Moby.

[Pagie]

Where can I get the Armadillo?

[Old Croc]

Crocy,

As we know each other pretty well I know your background etc & respect your assessment of the hazards you face and the procedures you have in place to control them in your situation. Because I require prescription lenses for detail work I can't wear the Uvex safety spectacles at the lathe but I do wear them around operating machinery.

Cheers
Moby.
Moby, if you reread the post I said I wear "Uvex foam lined goggles" . I wear 2 different prescription glasses under them. 1st pair are distance with multifocal for general turning' and 2nd pair are made specially to work from zero to 500mm. I only use these for closeup work and must change them to 1st pair to walk out of the shop. Again, horses for courses, but I found the curved face shields reacted with my prescription glasses over long periods of use. As I only grind metal for very short periods, the fuehrer brand of chainsaw face shield suits my needs at the spark grinder as it is very flat across the front.
I hope I never experience what happened to Evanism or that lady, but whether it be on the wood lathe or either of my metal lathes, I do not work in what I call the explosion zone, I have adapted my style to keep my face in a different plane. If anyone else can wear the face shields, I wholeheartedly reccomend they do.
I have seen a shield with a flat face like my welding helmets, on the net, so if someone brings one up here I will look at it.
Rgds,
Crocy.

[Sturdee]

Where can I get the Armadillo?

Blackwoods sells them, they have branches at


1 Caribbean Drive
Scoresby 3179
03 8756 8222

and at

20 Greens Road
Dandenong 3175
03 8710 5100

I got mine a while back from Dandenong .


Peter.

[Pagie]

Thanks Sturdee.

[ian thorn]

I don't see the problem with wearing the face shield over glasses I wear a UVEX and it is so clear when I first got it I tried drinking my coffee with it on (didn't work ) They are only about $100 at Cab Tec a lot cheaper than doctors bills. Having been hit in the mouth by a Kg of wood (lucky no damage ) I don't want another. AS said Wear it.

[Mobyturns]

Moby, if you reread the post I said I wear "Uvex foam lined goggles" . I wear 2 different prescription glasses under them. 1st pair are distance with multifocal for general turning' and 2nd pair are made specially to work from zero to 500mm. I only use these for closeup work and must change them to 1st pair to walk out of the shop. Again, horses for courses, but I found the curved face shields reacted with my prescription glasses over long periods of use. As I only grind metal for very short periods, the fuehrer brand of chainsaw face shield suits my needs at the spark grinder as it is very flat across the front.
I hope I never experience what happened to Evanism or that lady, but whether it be on the wood lathe or either of my metal lathes, I do not work in what I call the explosion zone, I have adapted my style to keep my face in a different plane. If anyone else can wear the face shields, I wholeheartedly reccomend they do.
I have seen a shield with a flat face like my welding helmets, on the net, so if someone brings one up here I will look at it.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Crocy, I realized first up you said goggles & I should have elaborated. I like the Uvex safety specs and have found the yellow tint quite helpful in low light conditions like in the tent at Proserpine. I no longer require spectacles for general vision, but I do require them for reading & close vision. Personally I don't particularly like to wear the goggles but I do approve of their use & would wear them if a face shield was not available. Normally I use the Trend Airshield because I have problems from dust, but I swap between the Airshield, a face shield & safety specs (both in combination & separately) depending upon what tasks I am undertaking or watching.

I have the optical quality of the Armadillo to be superb, & the Airshield to be quite good, though I did have one dodgy shield that distorted vision badly with Airshield. The tearaways for the Airshield can be a problem at times.

[robo hippy]

I almost never wear one. Mostly they were in the way, and blocked my vision. I do take great pains to stand out of the line of fire at all times when turning, which to me is first line of defense for head safety. I have a standing out of the line of fire video clip up on You Tube, which I think i posted here, type in robo hippy.

robo hippy

[NCPaladin]

Not sure of the ratings there but here there are the Z87.1 and the Z87.1+.
Big difference.
Z87.1 must pass the drop ball test. A one inch steel ball dropped from 50 inches. No velocity test.
Z871+ a heavier (1.5 lbs) pointed object dropped from the same height and a pass a velocity test of a 1/4" steel ball at close to 100 mph. The + must be embossed in the shield during production.

I have DeWalt safety glasses with the +rating which I wear all the time (bifocals).
Over those a cheap Z87.1 for light spindle work or a V50 rated shield (ballistic) for other work.

I also keep pony tail bungees in the shop required for anyone with long hair.

[Mobyturns]

Not sure of the ratings there but here there are the Z87.1 and the Z87.1+.
Big difference.
Z87.1 must pass the drop ball test. A one inch steel ball dropped from 50 inches. No velocity test.
Z871+ a heavier (1.5 lbs) pointed object dropped from the same height and a pass a velocity test of a 1/4" steel ball at close to 100 mph. The + must be embossed in the shield during production.

I have DeWalt safety glasses with the +rating which I wear all the time (bifocals).
Over those a cheap Z87.1 for light spindle work or a V50 rated shield (ballistic) for other work.

I also keep pony tail bungees in the shop required for anyone with long hair.


I was referring to the standard as a document rather than the ratings.

It is important that turners understand the markings on safety spectacles / goggles / face shields. There is not a lot to be gained by going into the actual test methods but to give an indication I have added it to each rating.


AS/NZS 1337 "Personal eye protection"

Impact resistance AS-NZS1337

Low Impact eyewear is suitable when working in environments that are exposed to lower velocity projectiles like operating nonpower tools, chopping, cutting, chipping, sanding and fruit picking. Some eyewear has this rating not because of the impact resistance of the lens but the coverage of the lens over the eyes. Marking - the letters ‘HT’ where the ocular is heat tempered, The letters ‘CT’ where the ocular is chemically tempered. Use of the letter ‘S’ is optional. (6.35 mm (¼˝) diameter steel ball at 12 metres per second = 43kph)

Medium Impact (Marking “I” or “F”) is by far the most common rating in safety glasses. Most lenses are made from polycarbonate which has great impact resistance properties but if untreated is susceptible to scratching and most reputable brands have been treated for this. Medium impact will cover most situations where there are projectiles. (6.35 mm (¼˝) diameter steel ball at 40, +15 -0 metres per second = 144kph)

High Impact (Marking “V” or “B”) can only be achieved if the whole of the face and forehead are protected. Only face shields can achieve the high impact rating. Not all face shields are high impact rated, some have medium impact and some have no impact rating. (6.35 mm (¼˝) diameter steel ball at 110 +3 -0 metres per second = 396kph)

Extra high impact (Marking “A”) can only be achieved if the whole of the face and forehead are protected. Only face shields can achieve the extra high impact rating. (6.35 mm (¼˝) diameter steel ball at 175 +4 - 0 metres per second = 630kph)

We should note that the hazards associated with many wood turning projects fall out side the “most situations” due to the potential to create larger, higher mass & higher velocity projectiles which exceed the test requirements for the standards.

Wood turners & wood workers must consider medium impact rated safety spectacles / goggles / face shields & preferably a face shield as the minimum protection required when operating machinery & power tools.

They should seriously consider a High Impact face shield as the minimum requirement when turning larger bowls, platters or any bowl/platter that has “natural features.”

As an example the "Armadillo" face shield is Certified to AS/NZS 1337.1:2010 – High impact protection,

The "Protector Handyman Face Shield" is Certified to AS/NZS 1337.1:2010 – Medium Velocity Impact

Beware of generic "Certified to AS/NZS 1337.1:2010" statements - look for the actual impact rating & markings on the product as above.

[BobL]

Where can I get the Armadillo?

I got mine from http://www.protectoralsafe.com.au
There is a store about 15 minutes away from my place and at the time I purchased mine they were a couple of $ cheaper than Blackwoods.

I also use my Armadillo chainsaw milling and on lots of metal working tasks like grinding and turning. The shield seems to stand up to "rougher than usual treatment" and has retained its clarity better than all other shields I have tried.

[Pagie]

Going to Blackwoods now.

[Old Croc]

I almost never wear one. Mostly they were in the way, and blocked my vision. I do take great pains to stand out of the line of fire at all times when turning, which to me is first line of defense for head safety. I have a standing out of the line of fire video clip up on You Tube, which I think i posted here, type in robo hippy.

robo hippy
Yep I am with you robo, :2tsup: worked that out real early with the metal lathes and it became natural to follow this practice on the woodlathe.
rgds,
Crocy.

[Pagie]

I just bought an Amadillo from Blackwoods in dandenong for $34.

[fubar]

I wear the trend air shield it's been the best investment I've made in wood turning

[Big A]

I wear prescription spectacles and am too tight to get prescription safety ones made up. I hate the big safety glasses that go over specs, so I got an Armadillo from Alsafe. When it is clean, it is very clear so I do wear it most of the time turning now. Sometimes the headband can annoy me, but not as much as getting hit in the face and popping my eyes out!

Keeps the chips out of the neck of the shirt and out of the eyes as well. A good investment.

Cheers,
Alister.

[Mobyturns]

I just bought an Amadillo from Blackwoods in dandenong for $34.

If we have encouraged one turner to look out for themselves it has been successful, spread the word.

I've always liked Gordon Ward's comment “Learn from the mistakes of others, rather than making them all by your self,” rather than have some one say "Hindsight is 20/20, son, learn from your mistakes."

[orraloon]

I wear a face shield and find it is an improvement on goggles that always fog up from the facemask. Plenty room to wear glasses too. I now also use it at the table saw, grinder and planer for those reasons.
Like a lot of my generation PPE came late to us but it is important. I had an accidient about 30 years ago involving a 15 ton rig anchor. Anyhow due to steel cap boots I still have my right foot allbeit a bit reshaped. That really got me on side with PPE.
A face shield can not prevent you ever being hurt but it will lessen the effect.

Regards
John

[stuffy]

I was at a WAWA weekend workshop when Gordon while demonstrating had a piece come off the lathe and hit him square between the eyes.

He had to be taken to hospital, and was lucky to escape serious injury.

Demonstrators were more safety conscious for a while after that, but faceshields are rarely worn now.

I am guilty of this myself. It's setting a bad example for new turners. :-

It's easy to be distracted while demonstrating, so we need to be more careful.

[NeilS]

I don't turn without one.. .


+1

[turnerted]

This posting inspired me to upgrade to an Armadillo.$45.49 on Ebay at the moment, including delivery.Arrived a couple hours ago .Looks good.
Ted

[Beesncheese]

I also after reading that blog..armadillo ordered !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mobyturns]

I wear a face shield and find it is an improvement on goggles that always fog up from the facemask. Plenty room to wear glasses too. I now also use it at the table saw, grinder and planer for those reasons.
Like a lot of my generation PPE came late to us but it is important. I had an accidient about 30 years ago involving a 15 ton rig anchor. Anyhow due to steel cap boots I still have my right foot allbeit a bit reshaped. That really got me on side with PPE.
A face shield can not prevent you ever being hurt but it will lessen the effect.

Regards
John

I still have a big toe thanks to steel toe caps. I walked into an 1 1/2" Stanley framing chisel that rolled off a pack of trusses into grass on a building site. The chisel actually pared open the steel toe cap for about 25-30mm and took the brunt of the cut thankfully. I was forced to take a few days off on compo though with a nasty gash to the outside of the big toe.

[Mobyturns]

This posting inspired me to upgrade to an Armadillo.$45.49 on Ebay at the moment, including delivery.Arrived a couple hours ago .Looks good.
Ted


Great news, let us know how you find the Armadillo. I reckon they are probably the best value for money option available for wood turners & the typical hazards they face.

Remember you still have to do all the other things that keep you safe. ;-)

[issatree]

Hi All,
Bought a Racal Helmet, yes, a long time ago.
I suppose I wore it twice & then put it away.
It was the cold air, miles to cold for me, couldn't keep the drip off my nose.
Had a Face Shield, & that has gone as well.
To Dangerous for me, as I already wore Glasses that had coke bottle bottom lenses, very thick, & looking through all of that, uuuuhhh.
Since then have had my Cataracts done,+ Multifocus Lenses, that are Safety Lenses.
Have been hit once, but that was my lack of concentration while I was doing a Demo, as I forgot to recheck the tightening of my chuck. Out came the wood, glanced across my Forehead, & at anytime I'm a good bleeder, so blood was all over the place, people came from all over, very embarrassing, silly twit.
Have not bothered since.
Just because I don't wear one, doesn't mean, its not for you.
Definitely, wear one if you are a younger person, as life without, say 1 eye, wood not be good.

[Mobyturns]

Hi All,
Bought a Racal Helmet, yes, a long time ago.
I suppose I wore it twice & then put it away.
It was the cold air, miles to cold for me, couldn't keep the drip off my nose.
Had a Face Shield, & that has gone as well.
To Dangerous for me, as I already wore Glasses that had coke bottle bottom lenses, very thick, & looking through all of that, uuuuhhh.
Since then have had my Cataracts done,+ Multifocus Lenses, that are Safety Lenses.
Have been hit once, but that was my lack of concentration while I was doing a Demo, as I forgot to recheck the tightening of my chuck. Out came the wood, glanced across my Forehead, & at anytime I'm a good bleeder, so blood was all over the place, people came from all over, very embarrassing, silly twit.
Have not bothered since.
Just because I don't wear one, doesn't mean, its not for you.
Definitely, wear one if you are a younger person, as life without, say 1 eye, wood not be good.

Issatree,

I live in the tropics so it is hard for me to comprehend some of the issues you guys in colder climes have with powered air respirators & face shields. There are products to assist with fogging.

"Safety lenses" in your spectacles will not offer you much in the way of protection for the face & eyes unless the lens & frame combination meet the requirements of AS/NZS 1337.6: "Prescription safety eyewear". They may be suitable where low impact protection is required.

Yes you have had issues with face shields but I would urge you to at least test a face shield of similar design to the Armadillo.

Unfortunately what wood turners in general do not do well is assess the hazards & risk associated with the turning projects they are attempting. AS/NZS 1336: "Recommended practices in occupational eye protection" (costs about $200 unfortunately) is an industry document about assessing hazards and managing risk including specifying suitable eye/face personal protective equipment. It is very good guidance for "hobby" turners about what they really should be using for eye & face protection.

[mick59wests]

I am also inspired by this thread. At present I just use some el-cheapo safety glasses, so am looking at an Armadillo as well.

My question is around wearing 'on top of the head' (as opposed to ones that can be adjusted to wear around the neck) ear-muffs. I have a loud dust extractor so have been wearing big sold ear-muffs (which are easy with safety glasses). I do have an old el-cheapo face shield but I cannot use with my 'on top of the head' ear-muffs. How will I go with the Armadillo?

thanks

Mick

[BobL]

I am also inspired by this thread. At present I just use some el-cheapo safety glasses, so am looking at an Armadillo as well.

My question is around wearing 'on top of the head' (as opposed to ones that can be adjusted to wear around the neck) ear-muffs. I have a loud dust extractor so have been wearing big sold ear-muffs (which are easy with safety glasses). I do have an old el-cheapo face shield but I cannot use with my 'on top of the head' ear-muffs. How will I go with the Armadillo?

thanks

Mick

No worries with either the Peltor H10A, "over the top" or, H10B, "around the neck" when used with Armadillo.

I prefer the around the neck as this does not press down sideways on the headband.

The "around the neck" can also be worn so the band hooks over the headband adjuster and this holds the Armadillo on even better so you can bend over and the armadillo still stays on. I have a bit of a tapering head so hats or any headwear with a headband tends to creep upwards and fall off more easily than for squarer or jugger headed folks.

[mick59wests]

No worries with either the Peltor H10A, "over the top" or, H10B, "around the neck" when used with Armadillo.

I prefer the around the neck as this does not press down sideways on the headband.

The "around the neck" can also be worn so the band hooks over the headband adjuster and this holds the Armadillo on even better so you can bend over and the armadillo still stays on. I have a bit of a tapering head so hats or any headwear with a headband tends to creep upwards and fall off more easily than for squarer or jugger headed folks.
BobL,
very much appreciated. Looks like another is on they way :)
cheers
Mick

[Pat]

I wear the the Bionic (http://www.honeywellsafety.com/Products/Eye_and_Face_Protection/Honeywell_Bionic.aspx?site=/au), now under the Honeywell brand. Especially for any bowl turning . . . One case of bleeding snoz is enough for me :;

If I am turning smaller spindles, then safety glasses are worn, when both ends are secured.

Woodturning is an inherently dangerous hobby/occupation and it is up to the end user to take steps to minimise the danger, with PPE being the last tranche of the Safety Pyramid.

[issatree]

Hi Again,
Had a look at a site. Not very impressed with that Armadillo.
No price list as you had to sign in.
I was with approx 95 Turners last weekend at DUTA, & may have been some there, but I never noticed any.
Sorry, but I wood rather see properly, than make a mistake trying to see what I am doing, with one of those things on.
As Stated before, I have been Turning for 33 years. Just remembered, as I got hit while at home, on the hand one day, so that is 2 that I can remember.
I only Turn Small Stuff, like Raffan, Bonnie Klein, Ray Key, Etc.

[Mobyturns]

Hi Again,
Had a look at a site. Not very impressed with that Armadillo.
No price list as you had to sign in.
I was with approx 95 Turners last weekend at DUTA, & may have been some there, but I never noticed any.
Sorry, but I wood rather see properly, than make a mistake trying to see what I am doing, with one of those things on.
As Stated before, I have been Turning for 33 years. Just remembered, as I got hit while at home, on the hand one day, so that is 2 that I can remember.
I only Turn Small Stuff, like Raffan, Bonnie Klein, Ray Key, Etc.

If poor vision from fogging etc is an issue for you then that certainly becomes another high priority hazard that has to be managed. With 33 years turning experience you would have built up a fair bit of experience to know what you can & can't do safely so I totally respect your decision & choice. May not agree but do respect your decision.

One thing to be mindful of though is that as we age we are also more likely to experience a medical event that may put us in harms way. Say something like vertigo, fainting due to dehydration, fatigue etc that may cause us to have a catch, fall into the running lathe etc. This was most likely a very significant factor in the death of a wood turner in Griffith Aust in late 2012. All possible with varying probability, so wearing a high impact face shield all the time at the lathe has other benefits in that it can reduce the severity of potential injuries from such an unpredictable event.

I wear prescription specs & just breaking in a new pair of graduated prescription lenses. I turn mostly small linear laminated stuff & use the Armadillo - excellent protection for me as I have had glued bits bigger than the test ball bearing fly off & hit me even though I try to remain out of the red zone as much as possible. The Armadillo visor has very good optical qualities so no distortion. I either wear the Armadillo or a Purelite/Trend Airshield depending upon the turning / dust hazards. One of the visors in the Airshield was shocking for distortion as it appeared to have ripples so got replaced very quickly.

The other thing we should be mindful of is that wearing a face shield / goggles / safety specs inappropriate for the severity of the hazards is not that much better than not wearing anything at all if you don't take other measures to control hazards / risk. As Crocy & Paul say, staying out of the red zone, using secure work holding methods, correct lathe speed, monitoring & stabilizing blanks etc. If you do those things well then the PPE still offers good protection but the risk/probability of a nasty event lowers significantly so the PPE seems overkill & redundant but it is not!

[jefferson]

I am also inspired by this thread. At present I just use some el-cheapo safety glasses, so am looking at an Armadillo as well.

My question is around wearing 'on top of the head' (as opposed to ones that can be adjusted to wear around the neck) ear-muffs. I have a loud dust extractor so have been wearing big sold ear-muffs (which are easy with safety glasses). I do have an old el-cheapo face shield but I cannot use with my 'on top of the head' ear-muffs. How will I go with the Armadillo?

thanks

Mick

Mick, the last thing I would be doing is wearing ear muffs while turning. You need to hear what the wood is telling you - that almost silent tick, tick, tick may be telling you that there is a flaw in the wood that you should have a look at. I have no idea how many decibels etc but the pay-off is worth it.

[Christos]

....Had a look at a site. Not very impressed with that Armadillo......

When it came for me to make a decision to change my face shield from the one that I was using to the Armadillo the major selling point was to prevent chips flying under the shield. Looking at the ones available I wanted one that was going to give me as much vision as possible.

One of the disadvantages of buying online is you can not try it on. No idea of the weight, the adjustments, the visual aspects that it supplies, it was all going to be a guess.

Now that I have been using it for a while I am very happy with it.

So far I have not been hit (nor has the face shield) by anything that has flown off the lathe other than wood chips. I have used it when it was very cold and found it does fog a little so just wiped it down with the hand after that it was fine. It does have a tendency to get some dust on the shield but again just wipe it down.

[chuck1]

When I started my apprenticeship woodturning ppe was not very prevalent gee you could smoke while turning if you wanted to!
the injuries I have sustained was a spindle gouge to the face splitting lips and chipped tooth
then the first dustmaster came out! And I was floored by a segmented ring 600 diameter that didn't stay together! The faceshield saved me from cuts and abrasions.
most of my other injures are have been hand and arm cuts and bruises.
So I personally think try and find some PPE that works for you and wear it.
Pulling your shirt over your nose, dodging wood chips and staying out of line of fire can make the job harder to complete!

[stuffy]

When bicycle helmet laws first came into effect there were a lot of complaints. The risk of head injury to cyclists must be quite low. The result of a head injury however, can be so severe that it is worth taking precautions against.

I've ridden bikes and motorbikes for a long time and never had a serious accident but it's the unforeseen occurances that I'm protecting myself from.

[NeilS]

Mick, the last thing I would be doing is wearing ear muffs while turning. You need to hear what the wood is telling you - that almost silent tick, tick, tick may be telling you that there is a flaw in the wood that you should have a look at. I have no idea how many decibels etc but the pay-off is worth it.

For me it is a case of choosing which to risks to minimise over competing risks.



Being an asthmatic I give the highest priority to my lungs



Second priority is my eyesight



Third priority is my hearing. I already have tinnitus and hearing loss



Fourth priority is physical trauma to fingers and head.


Optimising against dust risk (ie lung damage) means a noisy cyclone (approx 90bB), plus the air delivery noise inside the confined space of a positive pressure helmet-mask that also protects my eyesight.

To protect my hearing from that noise I use earplugs (Moldex Sparkplugs (https://www.rsea.com.au/products/401022) - they are economical if purchased in bulk, are comfortable to wear and don't have fitting issues associated with face masks and helmet designs). Yes, it reduces my chances of hearing any developing faults in the wood, but that is reduced anyway with all the noise from the dust protection systems. So, I select my blanks carefully and stop and inspect the blanks while turning more regularly, which is more preemptive than the click-click that can quickly become be click-click-clack-wack! before you get to the stop button.

However, I might risk a few minutes of dust or noise exposure, as those risks accumulate over the years, but I never turn on the lathe without first putting on a facemask.

If your priorities order is different on the hierarchy of risks you may settle on a different protection regime.


PS - I use both the earplugs + muffs when chainsawing and the like.

[Mobyturns]

For me it is a case of choosing which to risks to minimise over competing risks.

NeilS, very good advice, thank you. We certainly do have to prioritize risks and ask our selves "if I do that how does it change everything else?" Your reasoning is very sound.

The highest priority should always be to eliminate, substitute or reduce the hazards that have the potential to severely injure. If there is still sufficient risk or if the outcomes can still be very severe after taking prudent steps to control them, then we should do everything we can to minimize the fallout, should such an event occur. That includes wearing high impact face shields.

Things like flying objects with enough mass or velocity to cause real harm that can lead to further complications or even death are very hazardous. We can stabilize blanks, reduce lathe speed, monitor progress, pay careful attention to tool skills, etc but at the end of the day if the project can create a 0.5 kg piece of wood at 100kph that has the potential to hit you in the head is it really worth doing? If it is worth doing to you then use everything at you disposal to keep you as safe as possible. Think also about the unexpected or the unusual occurrences that may happen.

As mentioned above with bicycle helmet laws - the injuries are common enough to cause real concern but the outcome of the injury can be very devastating for the injured & their families. The same risks and outcomes apply to wood turners - severe head injuries kill wood turners.

[mick59wests]

My biggest priority was also the dust. Even with moving the motor and impeller into another room, the air-flow (especially through the flexy) and cyclone make enough noise that I reckon it will quickly impact my hearing if I did not wear ear-muffs. In fact, I wear a set of noise cancelling over the ear headphones (attached to an MP3 player) and then ear-muffs over the top. This does a great job but I cannot use my current el-cheapo face mask so am only using safety goggles. I would like to keep my current ear protection (and have my music) so am wanting a face shield that can incorporate these. What I think I really need is a HAZMAT suit :)

As Neil said, it is a matter of organising priorities and then seeing what you can get.

cheers

Mick

[JDarvall]

I do spindle work, so I only use regular safety glasses.

For large bowl turnings, if I was any good at it, I'd definitely wear a face shield.

Wear ear plugs all day. And safety glasses that sits on my head that I drop down to my eyes when I'm on the table saw and lathe. Don't bother with the glasses for much else.

Lungs are the last priority for me, mostly because I like to get a full breathe and feel castraphobic with a mask on. And the mask has to sit right else it fogs the glasses. So I consider it a bit of a pain. A shed with openable walls is ideal imo.

[BobL]

Mick, the last thing I would be doing is wearing ear muffs while turning. You need to hear what the wood is telling you - that almost silent tick, tick, tick may be telling you that there is a flaw in the wood that you should have a look at. I have no idea how many decibels etc but the pay-off is worth it.

I agree about the ear muffs, but if anyone can hear that "almost silent tick, tick, tick", that tells me they don't have enough air flow for dust collection happening. Even if the DC is outside the hiss of moving sufficient air flow through 6" ducting will normally be enough to mask those sounds. The quietest flow (lowest resistance) will be obtained with a bell mouth hood and even those will still make enough noise to mask the tick, tick, ticks.

[Alby123]

I've always worn a Purelite Air Powered Respirator from when I first started woodturning in 1990, and the unit is still working fine. The batteries were only repacked last year and I'm still able to buy the relevant filters for this model.
Regarding the dangers when things go wrong especially when the piece of timber you are turning splits apart as you shaping it; in spite of the fact that you checked the piece of wood for cracks so that you don't have bits of timber flying around when your shaping the timber.
You always have to look after your lungs and eye sight.

[jefferson]

I agree about the ear muffs, but if anyone can hear that "almost silent tick, tick, tick", that tells me they don't have enough air flow for dust collection happening. Even if the DC is outside the hiss of moving sufficient air flow through 6" ducting will normally be enough to mask those sounds. The quietest flow (lowest resistance) will be obtained with a bell mouth hood and even those will still make enough noise to mask the tick, tick, ticks.

Bob, you're a step ahead of me as I haven't got the cyclone hooked up to the lathes yet. (House renos and 16 redgum chairs isn't helping). I guess the relevant question is who turns with dust extraction happening as well as the mask/shield?

[mick59wests]

Bob, you're a step ahead of me as I haven't got the cyclone hooked up to the lathes yet. (House renos and 16 redgum chairs isn't helping). I guess the relevant question is who turns with dust extraction happening as well as the mask/shield?
I have good dust extraction going and with this have dispensed with the mask (in fact I used a powered respirator). My shed has very little fine dust anywhere so I am confident the dust extractor is doing its job.
cheers
Mick

[Mobyturns]

I agree about the ear muffs, but if anyone can hear that "almost silent tick, tick, tick", that tells me they don't have enough air flow for dust collection happening. Even if the DC is outside the hiss of moving sufficient air flow through 6" ducting will normally be enough to mask those sounds. The quietest flow (lowest resistance) will be obtained with a bell mouth hood and even those will still make enough noise to mask the tick, tick, ticks.

BobL,

Thank you, more very good points to consider when assessing the priority of controls to eliminate, substitute, or minimize ALL hazards.

Which is your highest priority?

I have started a new thread as it will only confuse this one.

[NeilS]

Bob, you're a step ahead of me as I haven't got the cyclone hooked up to the lathes yet. (House renos and 16 redgum chairs isn't helping). I guess the relevant question is who turns with dust extraction happening as well as the mask/shield?

1

[BobL]

BobL,
Thank you, more very good points to consider when assessing the priority of controls to eliminate, substitute, or minimize ALL hazards.
Which is your highest priority? .

From my point of view wood turning is a relatively low risk activity. Firstly because I don't do it very often and then in comparison to stuff involving chainsaws or my gas forge.

Otherwise a face shield is pretty well standard wear in my shed with most power tools and machinery. The only power tools I can think of that I don't wear it with are sanders and drivers. Welding or using the plasma cutter the face shield is replaced by a welding mask.

[Mobyturns]

From my point of view wood turning is a relatively low risk activity. Firstly because I don't do it very often and then in comparison to stuff involving chainsaws or my gas forge.

Otherwise a face shield is pretty well standard wear in my shed with most power tools and machinery. The only power tools I can think of that I don't wear it with are sanders and drivers. Welding or using the plasma cutter the face shield is replaced by a welding mask.

Surprisingly chainsaws don't kill many people, just maim.

[BobL]

Surprisingly chainsaws don't kill many people, just maim.

Some interesting things about chainsaw injuries

acts and Figures about Chainsaw Injuries


According to the U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission there were over 28,500 chain saw injuries in 1999. More than 36% were injuries to the legs and knees.




The average chainsaw injury requires 110 stitches and the average medical cost was $ 5,600.00 in 1989. Data according to The Davis Garvin Agency, an insurance underwriter specializing in loggers insurance. In year 2000 corresponding costs can be estimated to be over $12,000.00.




Medical costs for chainsaw injuries based on these facts amount to about 350 million dollars per year.
Workman's compensation costs, based on the assumption that four weeks recovery is required, can be estimated at 125 million dollars annually.




Loss of production as well as loss of quality of life for the injured can not be adequately quantified, but may in fact represent the single largest cost.




There are 69,000 professional loggers in the U.S.. The cost of equipping all of them with one pair of chainsaw chaps at approximately $75.00 each would result in a total annual expense of five million dollars.




There are few situations where safety has a more immediate payback than in the logging industry.

[Mobyturns]

Some interesting things about chainsaw injuries



Thank you, I have found similar data in my research. Trying to quantify the number and type of DIY & specifically hobby wood turning injuries is not easy and research is scarce on thes subjects.

Other interesting facts I came across while researching & writing my series of safety articles in UK Woodturning magazine,

Wood lathes are the most likely machine to contribute to the death of a wood worker (not wood turner).

In the UK there are approx 400 hospital admissions per year due to lathe injuries.

Australian VISS DIY injury research in 1995 cites,


Finger & hand lacerations and foreign bodies in eyes were by far the most frequent injury outcomes.
Almost one half on injuries were to upper limbs (44%), almost one third to the head (including eyes) 30%; rest of body 26%.
Types of injuries requiring hospital admission, powersaws 30%; circular saws 44%; chainsaws 18%; grinder 5% (wood lathes don't get a mention).
There were 44 fatalaties in Vic in the study period (1989-1992); 11 were falls of which 7 from ladders; 10 were electrical; none were from chainsaws.
eye injuries (prevention) - the younger generation prefer to use modern looking glasses while the older generation sticks to what is familiar. (fashion & vanity?)
the fallacy that safety spectacles offer adequate protection.
there appears to be an over emphasis on chainsaw injuries and very little on lawn mower injuries.
a large proportion of the power tool examined were found to be unsafe (94%)


The VISS study is also prior to the current DIY TV program craze. Other UK & US research into DIY injuries gives similar results & findings.

[Old Croc]

This have been a very informative thread, so thanks for all the contributions as I have sat down and reassessed my particular patch.
I was just on another forum and one of the posters had this on the bottom of his signature block, and it did make me stop and think.
You can walk with a wooden leg but you can't see with a glass eye - Always wear Eye Protection!<o:p></o:p>
:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
rgds,
Crocy

[BobL]

Here we go - no excuses now - to add ventilation, drill a few holes in it.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=326643&stc=1

[NeilS]

Here we go - no excuses now - to add ventilation, drill a few holes in it.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=326643&stc=1



....:o

[Christos]

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=326643&stc=1


I am going to look at it from a positive perspective.

At least it something.

[BobL]

I am going to look at it from a positive perspective.
At least it something.

Yep, he's ahead of 90% of Aussie DIY patients who present at hospital emergency who were not wearing any form of PPE.

[Christos]

Yep, he's ahead of 90% of Aussie DIY patients who present at hospital emergency who were not wearing any form of PPE.


Slowly slowly people become educated.