chuck screw...screwed !!

[smiife]

Hi guys,
Has anyone got any ideas for removing a chuck screw,
which has a chewed allen head screw that just won, t budge !!:~
Chuck is a supernova 2
Any help appreciated

[Treecycle]

Assuming you are talking about the screws that hold the jaws on. If so, put the chuck in to a wood vice or a metal vice with some protection between the chuck and vice jaws. Have the chuck jaws facing up.
Get a centre punch and hammer and punch a mark into the head of the screw near the edge of the head. Once you have an indentation, angle the punch over to about 30 degrees off vertical and hit it forcing the screw in an anticlockwise direction. After a few hits it should loosen and then you will either use the Allen key if there is enough grip left, or just continue to use the hammer and punch until you can get a grip with your fingers or pliers.

[robbygard]

i have a set of "easy outs" which are a left hand thread that will fit in a tap wrench (they cut into the screw and undo it at the same time) .. they are from pre-WWII but i think they still go by the same name and can still be purchased

regards david

[chuck1]

If it's tight on the chuck, Buy a another chuck! Not overly cost effective! But very handy to have a few chucks.

[mjl09]

Screw Extractors http://www.thegrabitstore.com/Pages/howtouse.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVVhJx25a5M

These ones need a cordless drill with reverse.
Use the burnishing end first slow on reverse on the head.
Then switch to the other end of the bit and still in reverse

http://www.bunnings.com.au/extractor-screw-sutton-2pce-grabit-set-g8520_p6360085

[Acco]

Get a drift punch that is slightly smaller than the hex hole and give each bolt a good hard whack with a hammer before attempting to undo each bolt. This will crack the bond on the counter sunk heads.

Also make sure sure that there isn't any build up of sawdust in the hex bit beforehand.

Once you have freed the bolts, get yourself some silver or copper anti-seize when you replace the bolts and coat the bolt heads and threads.

[Evanism]

I'd drill that grub screw out first.

[oreos40]

use a punch slightly larger than the hex hole. set it squarely on the hole and whack it good a couple time this will push some of the material back into place for a grip on a wrench. you may have to drive the wrench into the hole to push some deformed material out of the way that has been pushed to far. there has been very few times that I have had to get an easy out involved. Set screws are a hard thing to get the easy out to work on properly. too deep and you drill into what you dont want to and too big a diameter and it will wreck a drill bit and an easy out because the threads are hard.

[Dalboy]

Get a drift punch that is slightly smaller than the hex hole and give each bolt a good hard whack with a hammer before attempting to undo each bolt. This will crack the bond on the counter sunk heads.

Also make sure sure that there isn't any build up of sawdust in the hex bit beforehand.

Once you have freed the bolts, get yourself some silver or copper anti-seize when you replace the bolts and coat the bolt heads and threads.

+1 I have done this once with mine. a short sharp tap no need to beat seven bells out of it. If this fails get a drill bit the same size as the thread part of the screw(use one you have already got out as a guide) now drill into the head until the head detaches. Once the jaw is removed then the remaining screw should undo with ease.

[pommyphil]

Did one two days ago,drill the head off with a 6mm drill, take off the jaw and mine unwound with my fingers. They bind on the countersink. Phil

[Mobyturns]

Before you do to much damage - Try Rob McKee's tip. Thank you to Rob for permission to use his tip in an article I wrote on chuck maintenance for the AAW Journal (29-03 p20-).

(Sorry in advance I cannot place the PDF on here as that requires AAW permission as the copyright license owner.)

Have a helper place the allen key in the damaged cap screw head.

With a small center punch & hammer make a good punch mark into the head of the cap screw adjacent to each of the hex faces of the allen key. This deforms the metal to essentially reform the hex recess around the allen key & helps to break the "seal" of the threads.

Then attempt to remove the cap screw as normal. A pair of multi grips or a spanner on the shaft of the allen key also helps.

If this fails then I'm afraid you will have to resort to drilling & screw extractors or simply drill off the cap screw head then removing the "stud" by other mechanical means as others have stated above.

Impact drivers may help.

Another couple of tips -

throw away the ball end allen keys - useless for chuck maintenance as they do more damage than good.
use a little petroleum jelly on the threads & underside of the of the cap screws when you reassemble the jaw sets.
don't be stingy - replace cap screws at the first sign of damage & regularly - they only cost a few dollars per set. (Vicmarc style are readily available at specialist bolt suppliers, and cheaper by the per 100. Nova are not so easy to find.)
maintain chucks regularly - if you do then none of this is necessary!

[Tangoman]

As Dalboy and PommyPhil suggest.

Drill the head off with a 6mm drill,the angle on the drill will detach the bolt head, remove the jaw and the remains will unscrew by hand. I've done it a few times,it's quick and easy !

Cam

[RoyG]

Smiife,

After having a read thru the responses to your post, I think that there might be some confusion regarding which Allen Headed Screw you are referring to. On Tecknatool chucks there are the Allen Drive Flat Head Screws that secure the jaws, which seems to possibly be what most of the responses are referring to.
However, on newer Chucks (roughly - those made in since Teknatool first started selling lathes that could run in reverse) there is also an Allen Headed Grub Screw that is used to lock the chuck to the spindle to enable the lathe to be run in reverse. If the screw that you're having problems with is the allen headed grub screw that allows the lathe to run in reverse - then the suggestions so far may be pretty hard to implement due to lack of clear access to that grub screw.

If you can clarify which Allen Headed Screw you're referring to, people might be able to provide more specific recommendations.

Regards,

Roy

[smiife]

Hi guys ,
Some very good suggestions there, thank you all
very much, I will try them out on the weekend!
It is just one of the allen flat head screws on one of the
jaws, I like chuckies idea just keep the jaws on there and
buy a new chuck :U, a good excuse to buy a new chuck:;
Thanks again for the great ideas, will let you know what
happens:B
Mjl90 does amazon deliver to oz? I like those screw
extactors in the video:2tsup:

[Treecycle]

Readily available in Aus.
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html/_W0QQ_sopZ12?_nkw=grabit%20screw%20extractor&_fromfsb=0&_trksid=m270.l1313

[smiife]

thanks treecycle, there is a big price differance
between the us/uk one and the ones from china:o
just a better quality i suppose, I will have to get a set of those
Thanks again:2tsup:

[Treecycle]

Yeah, hard to tell with China. Sometimes you get reasonable quality and other times it's just rubbish.:no:

[Evanism]

Geez you guys are making this sound hard. This happens with engines all the time. Take a small drill bit and drill right down the middle. After it cools it usually winds right out just by jamming something squarish in the small hole (tiny screw driver). Also, as above, the other is to drill it till the head pops off.

Take it easy and slow. It should unwind with just your fingers once the jaw is removed.

[mjl09]

The Grabit bits are available in OZ - it seems Sutton Tools is the distributor

They are listed on the Bunnings website - though i cant say i have seen them in store (though werent looking for them either) http://www.bunnings.com.au/extractor-screw-sutton-2pce-grabit-set-g8520_p6360085

They are also available from Blackwoods who offer a wider range of kits incorporating different size bits. Can be ordered through http://www.blackwoods.com.au for delivery or pickup in store (Though Tamworth looks like your closest store)

[Oldgreybeard]

Hi guys ,
Some very good suggestions there, thank you all
very much, I will try them out on the weekend!
It is just one of the allen flat head screws on one of the
jaws, I like chuckies idea just keep the jaws on there and
buy a new chuck :U, a good excuse to buy a new chuck:;
Thanks again for the great ideas, will let you know what
happens:B
Mjl90 does amazon deliver to oz? I like those screw
extactors in the video:2tsup:
smiife, you should be able to buy screw extracyors at most engineering hardware outlets. I would be surprised if they were not available at the large DIY outlets. I have bought them in the past at the local suburban industrial supply store here in SE Melbourne.
They are usually very effective.

Bob

[joe greiner]

Before you do to much damage - Try Rob McKee's tip. Thank you to Rob for permission to use his tip in an article I wrote on chuck maintenance for the AAW Journal (29-03 p20-).

(Sorry in advance I cannot place the PDF on here as that requires AAW permission as the copyright license owner.)

Have a helper place the allen key in the damaged cap screw head.

With a small center punch & hammer make a good punch mark into the head of the cap screw adjacent to each of the hex faces of the allen key. This deforms the metal to essentially reform the hex recess around the allen key & helps to break the "seal" of the threads.

Then attempt to remove the cap screw as normal. A pair of multi grips or a spanner on the shaft of the allen key also helps.

If this fails then I'm afraid you will have to resort to drilling & screw extractors or simply drill off the cap screw head then removing the "stud" by other mechanical means as others have stated above.

Impact drivers may help.

Another couple of tips -

throw away the ball end allen keys - useless for chuck maintenance as they do more damage than good.
use a little petroleum jelly on the threads & underside of the of the cap screws when you reassemble the jaw sets.
don't be stingy - replace cap screws at the first sign of damage & regularly - they only cost a few dollars per set. (Vicmarc style are readily available at specialist bolt suppliers, and cheaper by the per 100. Nova are not so easy to find.)
maintain chucks regularly - if you do then none of this is necessary!



I haven't seen impact drivers with small-enough bits for those screws.

But you could simulate one with a hammer associated with the step, "remove the cap screw as normal," driving downward toward the screw (with the chuck on a bench).

Cheers,
Joe

[smiife]

The Grabit bits are available in OZ - it seems Sutton Tools

They are listed on the Bunnings website - though i cant say i have seen them in store (though werent looking for them either) http://www.bunnings.com.au/extractor-screw-sutton-2pce-grabit-set-g8520_p6360085

They are also available from Blackwoods who offer a wider range of kits incorporating different size bits. Can be ordered through http://www.blackwoods.com.au for delivery or pickup in store (Though Tamworth looks like your closest store)
Thanks mjl90,
Now I have an excuse to go shopping online and in bunnies


smiife, you should be able to buy screw extracyors at most engineering hardware outlets. I would be surprised if they were not available at the large DIY outlets. I have bought them in the past at the local suburban industrial supply store here in SE Melbourne.
They are usually very effective.

Bob
Yeah thanks bob, I should be able to get some around here
but then again we are In country nsw:o


I haven't seen impact drivers with small-enough bits for those screws.

But you could simulate one with a hammer associated with the step, "remove the cap screw as normal," driving downward toward the screw (with the chuck on a bench).

Cheers,
Joe

Thanks for your reply joe, I will give IT a go on the weekend

[smiife]

Geez you guys are making this sound hard. This happens with engines all the time. Take a small drill bit and drill right down the middle. After it cools it usually winds right out just by jamming something squarish in the small hole (tiny screw driver). Also, as above, the other is to drill it till the head pops off.

Take it easy and slow. It should unwind with just your fingers once the jaw is removed.

Hi evanism,
Yeah I know, but If we NEED MORE TOOLS............why not!
and also If it won, t come out I could have to get a new chuck!:o
Thanks for your thoughts too!

[chuck1]

One more suggestio a left hand drill bit!

[NCPaladin]

You may need a "good" screw extractor if you buy one. The screws on most of my Nova's are 12.9 hardness but a couple are 10.9. The extractor will need to able to cut (bite into) these harder screws not a normal screw or bolt.

[smiife]

One more suggestio a left hand drill bit!


Hi chuckie,
A left hand drill bit:doh:?.............are you having me on!

[tore]

4mm dia left drill perfect:U:U


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dormer-A101-HSS-Left-Hand-Spiral-Jobber-Drill-4-00mm-/191446662666?pt=AU_Tool_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c931c3e0a

[chuck1]

Smiffie my tame metal working mate and I were talking and he mentioned extracting screws with left hand drill bit by having it catch instead of drilling with cordless drill.
thought it was a joke at first too. But it can work in some applications.

[RoyG]

Geez you guys are making this sound hard. This happens with engines all the time. Take a small drill bit and drill right down the middle. After it cools it usually winds right out just by jamming something squarish in the small hole (tiny screw driver). Also, as above, the other is to drill it till the head pops off.

Take it easy and slow. It should unwind with just your fingers once the jaw is removed.

.............. What Evanism said ! ..................

Forget all this stuff about Grabit's, EasyOuts and other screw extractor tools. They're not needed in this case. And anyway, I'm not sure you'd get a screw extractor small enough to do this job anyway, as the screws that hold the jaws on a Teknatool Chuck measure only 5.5 mm diameter across the threads.

After you've drilled the screw head off, you'll only have about 1 to 2 mm of thread left poking out, but (unless the screw thread is crossed or otherwise bound up) you should still be able to use your fingers to unscrew the remains of the screw.

Regards,

Roy

[bowl-basher]

I'd drill that grub screw out first.
:wts:
I found that drilling the head off took the pressure of the thread and you will find that it comes out easy with a pair of pliers or vice grips
Also found that Nova were more prone tooth's than Vicmark
Regards
Bowl Basher

[Evanism]

Hi evanism,
Yeah I know, but If we NEED MORE TOOLS............why not!
and also If it won, t come out I could have to get a new chuck!:o
Thanks for your thoughts too!

Maaaaatteee! If you saw my expenditure on toys over the last 3 years you'd be horrified! I'm the very last person to advise a person against buying some one-off highly specialized esoteric non-necessity. Twice. :)

[mjl09]

.............. What Evanism said ! ..................

Forget all this stuff about Grabit's, EasyOuts and other screw extractor tools. They're not needed in this case. And anyway, I'm not sure you'd get a screw extractor small enough to do this job anyway, as the screws that hold the jaws on a Teknatool Chuck measure only 5.5 mm diameter across the threads.

After you've drilled the screw head off, you'll only have about 1 to 2 mm of thread left poking out, but (unless the screw thread is crossed or otherwise bound up) you should still be able to use your fingers to unscrew the remains of the screw.

Regards,

Roy

In terms of the Grabits - 5 mm does not pose a problem a number 1 grabit does suit a 5 mm (and 6 mm) metric bolt, an indeed since your working on the head in this case might actually require a larger one as you would be operating on the deformed allen key head rather than the 5.5 mm thickness of the thread itself.

If you then look at the micro size grabits they cover the range of 3-6 mm metric bolts.

The hardness of bolt/screw is another question but the info on the website suggests can drill up to grade 8 and class 10.9 fasteners

[smiife]

Hi guys,
I finally found some time to get to the chuck!:o
Thanks again too everyone for there suggestions
and ideas, I thought i would try them all in this order......

1st , cut off a allen key, placed in the offending screw
and bashed the you know what out of it.! then tried
to turn with multi-grips..........:no::no::no:

2nd, centre punched it in the same fashion ! ..........:no::no::no:


3rd, tried the grabits, knowing if that failed i could still
drill the head off the !?*#@£÷=% thing!!!..........and hey presto
out it came, I had only drilled the head out to use the other end
but didn, t need too! it just came straight out,, (so i guess it was
a combination of left hand threaded drill and the grabits,, the
screw held so tight on the drill part i had to put it in the vice
to get it off!
have posted some piccy, s of the process

Thanks again to all for your help and interest:2tsup:

[mjl09]

Glad your back in business !!!

[Mobyturns]

Hi guys,
I finally found some time to get to the chuck!:o
Thanks again too everyone for there suggestions
and ideas, I thought i would try them all in this order......

1st , cut off a allen key, placed in the offending screw
and bashed the you know what out of it.! then tried
to turn with multi-grips..........:no::no::no:

2nd, centre punched it in the same fashion ! ..........:no::no::no:


3rd, tried the grabits, knowing if that failed i could still
drill the head off the !?*#@£÷=% thing!!!..........and hey presto
out it came, I had only drilled the head out to use the other end
but didn, t need too! it just came straight out,, (so i guess it was
a combination of left hand threaded drill and the grabits,, the
screw held so tight on the drill part i had to put it in the vice
to get it off!
have posted some piccy, s of the process

Thanks again to all for your help and interest:2tsup:

Good to see its operational again.

This is what Rob McKee's tip suggests - make a number (6) centre punch marks in the flat to deform the metal head around the allen key.

337341

[chuck1]

So you found the left hand drill ok!? Good to see it's all sorted!

[smiife]

337341[/ATTACH]

Hi mobyturns,
Yeah,, I can see how that would work too !
Thanks ,,


So you found the left hand drill ok!? Good to see it's all sorted!

Hi chuck,
Yeah, one end of the grab-It is in fact a left hand threaded drill!:o
once drilled to the correct depth , you are supposed to turn It
around and use the other end, but I didn, t need to, It just came
straight out, with the drill ,,,,! Thanks again :2tsup:

[wheelinround]

Been watching this glad you got it out. Not sure hammering the chuck on the lathe a good idea :no:
The photo of the jaws altogether shows some rough surface in the offending dovetail area that may have been the cause acting like a spring washer.

[smiife]

Been watching this glad you got it out. Not sure hammering the chuck on the lathe a good idea :no:
The photo of the jaws altogether shows some rough surface in the offending dovetail area that may have been the cause acting like a spring washer.

Hi wheelie,
Yeah, ... I just gave it a short sharp tap, but didn, t do any good!
I am soaking the jaws, and will strip the chuck and regrease it
on the weekend, then all I need are some new screws......hey jim!!:U
That reminds me ,, must watch , s video again:U
Thanks again guys:2tsup:

[Paul39]

I have found it is helpful to take the chuck off the spindle and the jaws off the chuck every 6 months or so and clean and lightly oil all threads before putting back together.

Saves having to beat the daylights out of the sticking parts to the possible detriment of the spindle bearings.

Smiife, glad to hear you won that one.

[smiife]

I have found it is helpful to take the chuck off the spindle and the jaws off the chuck every 6 months or so and clean and lightly oil all threads before putting back together.

Saves having to beat the daylights out of the sticking parts to the possible detriment of the spindle bearings.

Smiife, glad to hear you won that one.

Hi paul,
Yeah,,,, I will certainly be doing a bit of maintenance in future:doh:
Thanks for your help too!