vermec/nova

[gdf26562]

Hoping you might be able to shed some light on this issue.

I have a vermec chuck and recently acquired some nove chuck attachments, different size jaws. The jaws fit the grooves but the issue I found was that the two screws that hold a jaw seem to bottom out and cannot be screwed any further, this leaves a slight wobble in each jaw, I imagine it would be about a .5mm gap (near abouts).

As you can see by the pics the screw is shorter on one allowing it to connect, but the other is longer and bottoms out on the chuck hence the wobble. the other pics show the difference in the shoulders/rim (?)

Is there any issue using it like this, once the jaws are tightened it appears to hold like the vermec, or should I try and find shorter screws.

Cheers
Graham

[wheelinround]

option one fit a washer see if that takes up the gap shake proof might be best but watch how much proud the head sits.

option two buy second set of screws and shorten by grinding/machining the amount off required place nut on first then grind it helps clean up thread when removed.

[Sturdee]

Firstly I would take the chuck and jaws top a specialised nuts and bolt retailer and see if they can help you, if that fails send an email to Vermec for advice.

Peter.

[smiife]

Hi graham,
I am not too sure about using nova jaws with a vermec chuck!
Why don, t you get the proper jaws from vermec and send the
nova ones to me!:saythat:

[artme]

I had a similar situation.

Do not, under any circumstances use Vermec jaws on a Nova chuck or vice versa .:no::no::no:

I spoke to ( Enzo?) from Vermec at the wood show and the only way to have Vermec jaws fit a Nova chuck is to have them machined. Costly exercise!!

[Sawdust Maker]

Vermec make a chuck which takes both nova and vicmarc jaws
see here (http://www.vermec.com/chucks.html)

and on the original issue there appear to be two different length nova screws (that I've noticed)
and I wouldn't use a chuck where the jaws were not seated properly and tight

[Paul39]

Saving a few dollars is not worth the possibility of having a face full of timber and chuck jaws.

As those above point out, use the right jaws with the right screws.

Even with the right set up things can go awry, I have the scars to show it.

[Mobyturns]

Firstly I would take the chuck and jaws top a specialised nuts and bolt retailer and see if they can help you, if that fails send an email to Vermec for advice.

Peter.


Those with Nova chucks are probably already aware that finding non-genuine cap screws for Nova chucks is not easy as they have a wider head than the normal stock lines at most bolt suppliers. Vicmarc cap screws replacements are widely available. The different cap screw head design & hence the hole & countersink design is why the cap screws appear to be "bottoming out" - they aren't compatible.

Fitting jaws sets from different manufacturers to other chuck bodies is not recommended for a number of reasons.



Chuck bodies/jaws/backing slides/cap screws in combination offer a number of engineered & patented safety features and are designed to and rely upon them being used in their original combination.




Compatibility of the jaw and backing slide design. The annular ring and cap screw holes must align correctly - any miss alignment can unduly stress the jaw set, cap screw and slide. In your particular case you say there is a 0.5 mm gap between the jaw and slide so do not use them in combination. This may create vibration / wobble of the work piece that may initially go undetected but will increase as the setup wears placing higher than normal tensile stress on chuck components. The annular ring on the back of the jaw set also serves a couple of purposes - to align the components and it provides mechanical strength (centripetal force) reducing shear stress on cap screws.




Cap screw length must permit sufficient engagement of the thread into the backing slide to at least the original manufacturers original design. The head of the cap screw must engage the countersink in the jaws correctly - not sit proud (i.e. nova cap screws into vicmarc jaws) & not sit well down within the CS (i.e. vicmarc cap screws into nova jaws). Those cap screws are all that retain the chuck/jawset/workpiece on the lathe. Failure of one of the typical eight cap screws will place you in a potentially very hazardous situation, especially if you use high turning speeds with large objects. Cap screws can experience relatively high tensile stress depending upon the jaw design & application (i.e. long pin jaws with only one cap screw per jaw in compression mode).


Events in wood turning that result in minor to severe injuries are often a combination of factors/events that on their own don't appear alarming, but in combination they create a very hazardous environment.

A quite plausible scenario for you - insufficient cap screw engagement and miss fitted/incompatible jaw set leads to rapid undetected wear of the cap screw thread eventually resulting in the failure of the thread & loss of the cap screw, the other cap screw fails, jaw separates from chuck, work piece follows suit, end result severe head injury. Alarmist - not really - a very similar scenario happened in NZ last year with a jaw flying off a chuck in use and was published in the NZ wood turning magazine "Creative Wood". Fortunately in that reported event there was no injury.

[gdf26562]

Thanks for your replies and advice guys,


on reading all posts, I have decided to keep the jaws, sorry Smiffe, and purchase a nova chuck, I am one to err on the side of caution, and it can't hurt to have more than one chuck.

Regards
GRaham


A quite plausible scenario for you - insufficient cap screw engagement and miss fitted/incompatible jaw set leads to rapid undetected wear of the cap screw thread eventually resulting in the failure of the thread & loss of the cap screw, the other cap screw fails, jaw separates from chuck, work piece follows suit, end result severe head injury. Alarmist - not really - a very similar scenario happened in NZ last year with a jaw flying off a chuck in use and was published in the NZ wood turning magazine "Creative Wood". Fortunately in that reported event there was no injury.

[brendan stemp]

Hi graham,
I am not too sure about using nova jaws with a vermec chuck!
Why don, t you get the proper jaws from vermec and send the
nova ones to me!:saythat:

Vermec chucks were/are made to accommodate both brands of jaws.

[smiife]

Vermec chucks were/are made to accommodate both brands of jaws.


Hi brendon......are you sure???

[Mobyturns]

Hi brendon......are you sure???


http://www.vermec.com/chucks.html looks like the economy 100 mm does handle both.

I was not sure how Enzo handles the different diameter and larger sized countersunk holes, but I would be confident he has a sound engineered solution. "When using Vicmarc jaws the holes must be drilled out to 6 mm" :B So once modified they aren't suitable for use on the Vicmarc chucks anymore.

I was fortunate to be able to have a very good chat with Enzo in NZ after the symposium in 2012. Must say it was enlightening and enjoyable to get a perspective of a tool manufacturer. I have quite a few of Vermecs tools & am a big fan of their ER 25 & ER 32 colett chucks, sphere jig, chuck inserts & face plates, spindle adaptors etc.

[Mobyturns]

Found the link to my post "Chuck Mishap" http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=189111&highlight=chuck+jaws

[smiife]

Hi brendon......are you sure???


http://www.vermec.com/chucks.html looks like the economy 100 mm does handle both.

I was not sure how Enzo handles the different diameter and larger sized countersunk holes, but I would be confident he has a sound engineered solution. "When using Vicmarc jaws the holes must be drilled out to 6 mm" :B So once modified they aren't suitable for use on the Vicmarc chucks anymore.

I was fortunate to be able to have a very good chat with Enzo in NZ after the symposium in 2012. Must say it was enlightening and enjoyable to get a perspective of a tool manufacturer. I have quite a few of Vermecs tools & am a big fan of their ER 25 & ER 32 colett chucks, sphere jig, chuck inserts & face plates, spindle adaptors etc.

Hi brendon,
I do apologize,,, you where right, I should keep
my mouth shut sometimes:B................ooooopppsss sorry!

[Sawdust Maker]

Hi brendon......are you sure???

I don't understand this question

especially after I posted a link to the Vermec site in an earlier post

Ed: see post #6

[smiife]

I don't understand this question

especially after I posted a link to the Vermec site in an earlier post

Ed: see post #6


Hi SM,
Thats cos I didn, t look at the link!:doh::shrug::shrug:

[Sawdust Maker]

Hi SM,
Thats cos I didn, t look at the link!:doh::shrug::shrug:


:smack:

btw I've an extra set of the teknatool 50mm jaws if you need them!