How to sharpen chisels?

[Jenny Brandis]

It had to happen, the tools I got with the lathe are in need of sharpening. How do I know? They take chunks out and shudder and ... well you know what I mean.

I have an electric grinding wheel, I have the Carbatec chisel grinding jig (granddaughter shedded the instructions), I have the blunt tools that I foolishly tried to sharpen without instructions. Now I think they are REALLY blunt!

So, my question is, do you know of a website that has detailed instructions on resharpening the basic tool set?

[macca2]

Jenny.........I don't know of a web site but failing access to a club or other source of info, can I suggest your local library. Do they have one in Kununurra.
Books by Keith Rowley (woodturning a basic course) and Mike Darlow (the fundamentals of woodturning) have sections on sharpening, are both worth the read.

Macca

[Sprog]

Getting someone to show you is really the best way.

This may be of some help - chapters 3 and 4 give some info

http://www.turningtools.co.uk/wtintro/wtintro.html

[adrian]

Mike Darlow's DVD's have a section on sharpening.http://www.hinet.net.au/~mdarlow/

[smidsy]

Hei Guys,
Here is a pic of what I use, the left side adjusts up and out to get the right angle for scrapers. The right side is a simple slide out arrangement for gouges, the end of the handle snuggles in the V of the angle iron and when adjusted correctly holds the gouge at the correct angle against the wheel.
The system is mounted on the grinder via a plate underneath.

Obviously there is a little technique involved but this is one of the better systems I've seen.
Carbatec sell this set up, or you can make it yourself fairly easily if you can weld - all you need is the plate and some 25mm and 30mm square tube.

If anyone would like more pics of this set up pm me a direct e-mail address.
Cheers
Paul

[reeves]

Mike Darlows book on the fundementals of turning has agreat section on sharpening..

key thing is be careful...

regrinding is not the same things as sharpening...u need precise angles locke din...

i use a white wheel and a carbatec jig, a bigger wet wheel ( sheppach) with a tormek gouge jig...

i use a small diamond sharpener in between grinds, helps keep the edge as i turn...


like somone said, best way is to find someone who will show u..

good luck
john

[camphoranzac]

www.unijigproducts.com.au (http://www.unijigproducts.com.au) will provide you with all the info you need on sharpening. Cheers jr(camphoranzac) no quote as yet.

[hughie]

Jenny,
Have a look at the links below, many of them have instructions and pics as well. The bottomline is patience dont get the tool to hot so as to let change colour. Keep a water pot/jar or what ever handy to dip it into to keep it cool

http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/article3.htm
http://www.turningtools.co.uk/wtintro/grinding/grinding.html
http://www.peterchild.co.uk/grind/sharp2.htm
http://woodworking.about.com/od/sharpening/
http://green-alan.tripod.com/Tools.htm

This should get you going ok

Failing all that try and find somebody nearby to give a demo or better still do the lot for you

hughie

[martink]

I also found this that might help the shapening issues at http://www.turningtools.co.uk/widgets/grindingjig/wtsharpen.pdf

Thanks,

Martin.

[rsser]

Good question to ask Jenny, and the collective wisdom above will stand you in good stead.

Only things I can add are (a) practice and more practice, and (b) use a white or aluminium oxide wheel - a coarse (low number) grit is kind to your tools and a simple paddle-style diamond hone can be used to refresh the edge quickly.

A keen edge will make your life easier than you ever thought it could be ... at least over the lathe ;-}

[Tornatus]

G'day Jenny

Just thought I'd add my two bob's worth as a fellow novice on this much-debated subject.

I'm lucky enough to belong to a club with Richard Raffan as a fellow member, and it is not only inspiring to watch him turn, but also to observe his tool-sharpening techniques. One thing is clear from this, however - it takes many years of practice to learn how to efficiently and effectively sharpen turning tools freehand on a grinder.

In my limited experience, the best way to obtain a consistently-shaped sharp edge on your tools, and to learn the correct techniques of placing and moving the tool against the wheel, is to invest in a quality sharpening jig. I began with a UniJig, and found it quite effective, but our club recently had a presentation from Ken Port, the founder of Woodcut Tools from NZ, and I was so impressed with his TruGrind jig (an evolutionary improvement on the UniJig concept) that I bought one on the spot, and sold the UniJig.

I find the TruGrind as good as it gets, and its only limitation is in the size of some tools (like the 32mm scraper) which it can take. Ken's instruction video/VCD is simple and clear, and minimises the fiddling with angles and calibrated settings that make other jigs complicated.

Check out the TruGrind page on Ken's website at http://www.shop.woodcut-tools.com/section.php?xSec=12 It includes his instructional videos, so you can see for yourself how the jig works.

I should mention that for skew chisels, I use a Veritas swivelling clamp mated to a conventional grinder toolrest, which makes it very easy to obtain a Raffan-style radius on the cutting edge, but that is a personal preference (clearly influenced by my famous clubmate!)

Having said all that, I strongly endorse the suggestion by several other posters here that you try and find someone who knows what they are doing (can be a challenge) and get them to show you the basic techniques and, most importantly, how to recognise a truly sharp edge. You may also find, as I was pleased to, that shaping and sharpening tools can be an enjoyable and satisfying activity in its own right.

[Gingermick]

Does the job, but not for skews
bodgy brothers inc.

[smeds]

I know of an excellent turner in brisbane who refuses to sharpen his chisels on a grinder, he just uses a fine grade of paper attached to a face plate, attaches that on the lathe and sharpens away, he finds that this method doesn't grind away as much steel as a grinding wheel would and i can vouch that his chisels are just as sharp and cut just as well as those done by a grinder.

[rsser]

Makes sense.

Though sometimes you do need to reshape as noted, and sometimes on a scraper you want the biggest burr you can get and a grinder is good for that.

[Jimbob]

It had to happen, the tools I got with the lathe are in need of sharpening. How do I know? They take chunks out and shudder and ... well you know what I mean.

I have an electric grinding wheel, I have the Carbatec chisel grinding jig (granddaughter shedded the instructions), I have the blunt tools that I foolishly tried to sharpen without instructions. Now I think they are REALLY blunt!

So, my question is, do you know of a website that has detailed instructions on resharpening the basic tool set?Hi Jenny,
I sujest you e-mail Carbatec for instructions on how to use their sharpen jig,they are in N.Z now and I have found them very good, once you get used of sharpening you tools you find a breeze and believe me sharp tools make light work of the hardest timber.
Jimbob

[barnsey]

G'day Jenny,

You have had a heap of replies from all experience ranges and they all have some wise tips.

In my view, having a grinder is a great start - I use it all the time. Nothing else for my lathe tools other than my skew chisels. For any sort of chisel, cutting blade such as plane I use a grinding stone to really get a fine knife type edge.

Just like a kitchen knife I want it to be able to shave the hair off my arm.

Read the books by all means and then practice. It isn't till you've done it that you will feel the difference :)

Jamie

[rickb]

Hi Jenny,
I also bought a grinding jig from Carba-Tec which came with some very basic instructions. However, I subsequently found after making the templates from the supplied drawings that it was somewhat difficult to obtain the required bevel angles by adjusting the tilt angle on the tool rest.The section in Mike Darlow's book - "Fundamentals of Woodturning" does provide excellent guidance on the subject, but he provides computer-generated templates in his later book -"Woodturning Techniques" that allow the accurate setting up of the grinding jig.
Best idea as the others suggest if possible is to seek out help from an experienced turner or woodturning club. Good luck.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I can't help you with the jig; I free-hand all mine, but I can suggest another item to put on your "things to buy" list: a smallish diamond-lap.

It's a like a file, but with a diamond-dust impregnated surface instead of cutting ridges. They're available at any good woodturners' supplier, possibly at home hw stores (eg. Bunnings, etc) too.

Before I start a session I use the grinder to sharpen the chisels I plan to use and that's normally the only time it's used. While turning I touch up the edges of my tools with the diamond-lap as I notice they're blunting, just 4 or 5 strokes at a time. As a bonus, it extends the lifetime of the tools quite substantially! :)

I've been told by others, who put me on to this method, that they only use a grinder for reshaping but either I'm not that good yet or they're having a tug on my leg. I'm not sure which... ;)

[gatiep]

Skew

What they say is correct. After honing for a while you will notice a flat bevel forming at the cutting edge and also at the opposite side of the hollow ground bevel. When these get too big from all the 4 to 5 strokes, ie after honing it about 5 times, it becomes necessary to put the hollow grind back. You do not reshape, as a matter of fact you don't even have to grind back to the cutting edge, but rather just remove most of the flat that formed by honing. It works well and it does save some steel. I use it mainly on my 25 mm oval skew. It can be used on the gouges but takes a bit of time, which gets quicker the more you practice.

[Jenny Brandis]

Well, I did it again and they are blunt :o :(

I think I will use the wet stone - at least I don't wear off so much metal as I go.
:mad:

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

What they say is correct. After honing for a while you will notice a flat bevel forming at the cutting edge and also at the opposite side of the hollow ground bevel. When these get too big from all the 4 to 5 strokes, ie after honing it about 5 times, it becomes necessary to put the hollow grind back. You do not reshape, as a matter of fact you don't even have to grind back to the cutting edge, but rather just remove most of the flat that formed by honing. It works well and it does save some steel. I use it mainly on my 25 mm oval skew. It can be used on the gouges but takes a bit of time, which gets quicker the more you practice.
Aha! Now that you've explained it it makes perfect sense, it's the reason I touch up my tools on the grinder at the start of a session.

So I can say I'm that good now. :)

I use the lap on all my cutting tools. ie. Skews & gouges, and you're right about it getting quicker with practice. At first the different diameters and profiles of gouges take some getting used to, especially finger-nailed bowl-gouges [shudder] but I quickly learnt to "feel" how the lap presents to the bevel rather than trying to muscle learn a particular degree of wrist-rotation. If that makes any sense? I picked it up quicker than freehanding on the grinder, anyway, and certainly didn't ruin anywhere near as many tools. None, as a matter of fact. :D

Scrapers need the burr so they're grinder only, but as I mainly use them for finishing cuts they rarely blunten during a session.

There's always exceptions, of course.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Well, I did it again and they are blunt :o :(

I think I will use the wet stone - at least I don't wear off so much metal as I go.
:mad: Jenny, do you know if your tools are HSS (Hi-Speed Steel) or Carbon Steel? From what I can gather, most of the cheap "chinese import" gouge sets are carbon steel, HSS tools are usually stamped as such somewhere near the ferrule.

If carbon steel gets too hot (the edge turns blue) it loses its' temper and very rapidly bluntens. It must be sharpened slowly and carefully. A bucket of water to dip the tool in every few seconds for cooling helps. If the edge blues, you'll have to regrind to remove the blued edge. On the plus side, it does hold its' edge longer than HSS so once sharpened properly it'll need less touch ups.

HSS is more forgiving, although more expensive.

A whetstone is good for the touch ups I mentioned re a diamond lap, after you've shaped 'em on the grinder. A diamond-lap is merely easier to use like a file. ie. to take it to the tool instead of taking the tool to it.

Another possibility is that you're getting the tools sharp, but you've sharpened them to to the wrong angle. The angle is important, if it has changed the tools will need to be presented differently and may well appear blunt if you're using them the same way as you're used to.

As a rule of thumb, these are the basic angles for different types of tools. Most turners modify them to suit their own style of turning, I like a slightly shallower bowl gouge angle and a higher scraper angle, for example.




Roughing gouge - 45o
Spindle gouge - 35o
Chisels - 25o
Bowl gouges - 55o
Scrapers - 80o
Parting tools - 25o
These angles are measured from the bevel to the axis of the tool. (Pic.l 1) Oh... and make sure there's only 1 bevel. If the bevel seems multifaceted, keep on grinding until all the facets are gone. In Pic 2, the LH grind is alright, the RH example is a no-no!

I'm sure I'll cop some flak over these angles, but I did say "rule of thumb." :D

[Darrell Feltmate]

Jenny
Try my web site instructions for sharpening. They should help. I have not used the Carbatech jig but the one on my site is quick to make and try.
www.aroundthewoods.com (http://www.aroundthewoods.com)
Darrell

[La truciolara]

If I may I would advise you to buy a tool which tremendously helps sharpening regularly without loosing too much metal. After some times you might decide to do without it but I doubt.

There is a video you can dowload(in fact you have to download 3 parts) it is very clear and I hope helpfull
http://www.shop.woodcut-tools.com/section.php?xSec=57

[Utuk_Xul]

My only advice is to NOT dunk your HSS tools in water if you think you got them too hot. HSS doesn't take that kind of treatment very well. :)

[Mike Jefferys.]

Jenny,
One comforting point point that is often overlooked is that if you have high speed steel tools (HSS) it's impossible to cook them no matter how long you to to get proficient at sharpening. After the heat generated by sharpening, HSS air hardens whereas Carbon Steel tools tend to anneal (soften) as they cool.
I should disclose that I have an interest but The Wood Works in Sydney markets the Kel McNaughton grinder rest/jig which is worth looking at.
A final point about steels. There are many grades of HSS with different ingredients, charactersitics and cost and maybe even some tools that are marketed as HSS and aren't. I once paid a serious poultice for a supposedly HSS countersink and it turned up its toes in a couple of minutes.
Mike