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Oldgreybeard
27th July 2015, 12:27 PM
I am now concentrating on motor control systems, in particular closed loop PWM control programming, as part of my study into Microprocessor control systems. I have been looking at some of the commercially available VFD / VSF systems and have now started to put together a specification for a system which addresses the particular needs turners in contolling the woodturning lathe motor.

The main components are;
- Graphic user interface (GUI) for automated setup of motor characteristics, user preferences and motor speed control parameters.
- Push button selection to automatically implement the user preferences / parameters based on type of turning activity
- Ability for user to edit or add defined processes.

The concept is to establish, during setup, a set of parameters which suit your personal preferences for various types of lathe activities. For example - supposing that you have a 15KG out of balance lump of wood on the lathe. I envisage that you would want to be able to select via the speed potentiometer a very low speed, say 50 rpm, you would want high torque and probably a slow ramp time for the motor to come up to the set speed. As the blank comes into balance and you increase the speed to say 200 rpm, you might still want a constant high torque but the ramp time could now be reduced a bit - you shouldn't have to go into the control panel to change the ramp time. Being able to tie some of these parameters together into an automated process (still controlled by the user by adjusting the speed knob), I think it will be possible to create a safer environment. Parameters which should be changed, but often are not because its a PITA will more likely be done if it only has to be done once and is then always implemented.

Of course there will always be ocassions when manual over-ride is required.

I have attached a simple questionairre to help me clarify what is important to woodturners and what is not. If you can spare a few minutes, I would appreciate your input and any additional comments.

Bob
353982

Oldgreybeard
29th July 2015, 05:29 PM
Well, over 150 views and not a reply. Honestly I am not surprised, but I did expect someone to ask if I had 1 too many scotches.

But it was not all tongue in cheek. The scenario I presented and asked you to comment on, is a fair indication of what a VFD is designed for. To control the output of a motor, pump, etc within a predefined specification, to continually check the output against the specification and to make adjustments up or down to maintain the output accoding to the specification and process model.

I would have thought that there are 2 main reasons for having a VFD on a wood lathe:

1. To enable a 3ph motor to be run from 240v; and
2. To provide variable speed, which would be difficult using a single phase motor.

If that is all that is required, a simple inverter with a potentiometer to allow me to set and vary the speed could be built with less than $50 worth of components. Even the cheapest Chinese VDF is more than 3 times that amount and better quality could be up to 10 or more times, but do we really need to pay for the functionality which we will never use?.


Am I missing something or is the reason for using a VFD beacause it is currently the cheapest option commercially available?

Bob

hughie
29th July 2015, 06:57 PM
Bob the Docx has to be down loaded then re written and on sent, most folks just wont bother. Make it on-line with a simple tick in the box affair and you will get all answers you require.

BobL
29th July 2015, 06:59 PM
Bob,

Your survey is probably too wordy and technical, and to be brutally honest, its not really clear even to me what you are trying to achieve.

Most turners are not interested in technical details such as VFD parameters. They just want minimal belt changes and as much torque as possible - everything else is in the very minor leagues. When I talk to turners about the many benefits of VFDs they quickly glaze over once I get past those two things.

BTW the large numbers of VFD parameters are widely used in industry mainly for things like pumps,air cons, fans and conveyor belts of which there are many millions sold around the world each year. I doubt there is one VFD manufacturer that envisaged their product would be used by turners.

Bob

Oldgreybeard
29th July 2015, 08:14 PM
Bob,

Your survey is probably too wordy and technical, and to be brutally honest, its not really clear even to me
"even to me" - oh dear!


Also quotes from Woodies Stuff - Nothing at all to do with woodworking "Revenge post # 59"


Educationally speaking the question posed by the OP is a joke

I thought that was the idea

As a Uni head of department *


During my stint over 10 years as a university course accreditor *
* Not sure what this has to do with woodworking

Seems as though I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was a woodworking forum - not Mensa International.

I'm outa here.
Bob

tore
30th July 2015, 12:04 AM
Hi Bob
It has all been done already
see Silicone Chip April/May 2012
Kit available from Altronics see link

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k6032-1.5kw-full-induction-motor-speed-controller-kit/
and it was not a great success
Cheers

Oldgreybeard
30th July 2015, 09:57 AM
Hi Bob
It has all been done already
see Silicone Chip April/May 2012
Kit available from Altronics see link

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k6032-1.5kw-full-induction-motor-speed-controller-kit/
and it was not a great success
Cheers

Thanks Tore, I was aware of that article and from memory the major problem was that the resulting RPM was considerably reduced. If you have any other information as to why it was not a success I would appreciate an update.

Bob