Next Investment - Better tools or sharpening rig

[captainkirk]

So I have taken the plunge and purchased a used lathe which came with a set of tools. The tools have no branding so that should give some indication of the quality. :D With a little use in my less than skilled hands, the tools seem to work just fine however they lose their edge fairly quickly and I am free hand sharpening on a regular grinding wheel. (I know, don't cringe...).

I feel like my next investment should be some form of tool sharpening jig / rig as even if I had better tools, they would still need sharpening and I wouldn't like to hack them free hand on a regular grinding wheel.

Looking for advice and suggestions on tool sharpening options.

I did notice that timberbits has a good looking tool set on sale at the moment. Certainly within my budget. Do you think it worthy of my dollars?

http://www.timberbits.com/robert-sorby-6-piece-beginners-set.html

Cheers,
captainkirk

[Chief Tiff]

That is a pretty set of tools!

Personally I think you need to buy specific tooling to suit your specific requirements. I have a similar set of HSS tools from GPW but only really use a couple of them, they are aimed at covering the majority of basic turning procedures but not excelling at any particular one. When I buy individual tools I do gravitate to Sorby by default.

My advice for what it's worth (I am DEFINATELY a small player on the turning sub-forums) is to first invest in a sharpening station. An 8" grinder with at least one white wheel won't hurt the bank too much; on one end put an auxiliary adjustable rest for scrapers and gouges and on the other put your choice of specialist jig when you have identified your requirements in this area. Your cheap Chinese tools can then be touched up in seconds even on the job. One of the simplest and best systems I've seen is Willy Nelson's over in WA, he has a grinder mounted on the wall directly above his lathe. He doesn't need to stop the lathe, or even move position to give the tools a touch up during work.

[texx]

i have been free hand grinding my tools for 40 years .nothing wrong with that .

johno

[Ilya]

I second what Chief Tiff said - turn with available tools, and later get the ones that you use most from reputable brand. That set has a few tools that, depending on your use, may be rarely used.

Sharpening station or jig makes sharpening more repeatable. There are a lot of various options - true grind, or vicmarc are similar options. On the other hand, this cheaper jig can cover a lot of sharpening - http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/item/sharpening-jig
One of my mates uses it for bowl gouges, skew chisels and scrapers, and it works a treat.

[Chief Tiff]

That is an impressive jig, its basically the same auxiliary grinder rest available from most major woodwork suppliers but instead of having just a protractor to run across the slot it has dedicated tool rests. I wasn't aware that this existed but that definately tops my list of recommended add ons. I might have to get one myself.... to add the two normal ones I already own!

[China]

To answer your question "better tools" many turners sharpen freehand as I do, use the oppurtunity with the cheep tools to hone your sharpening skill.

[Jim Carroll]

Learn to sharpen first and wear out the tools you have.

So buy the jig and as you wear out the old ones replace as need be

[powderpost]

I am free hand sharpening on a regular grinding wheel. (I know, don't cringe...).

There is nothing wrong with a regular grinding wheel. I do recommend a aluminium oxide wheels for the grinder, and a water stone for honing. Also one of the mentioned jigs is very helpful especially for swept back wing style bowl gouges. Stay with the tools you have and consider buying a 25mm spindle roughing gouge, a 12mm detail gouge and a 25mm skew, all without handles and make your own handles. These will do pretty much all your spindle work. Then you can look at smaller versions of those tools and possibly a parting tool. When you are ready to attack bowls, a 12mm bowl gouge and a 30mm scraping tool. I don't think it is a good idea to buy a "it".
I used a grinder and water stones for half my life and still do.

By the way I do have a Tormek set up.

Jim

[Tangoman]

This jig may be of interest to you !

http://www.garypye.com/Sharpening/GPW-Deluxe-Sharpening-Jig-p775.html

Regards,
Cam

[Phil Hansen]

This jig may be of interest to you !

http://www.garypye.com/Sharpening/GPW-Deluxe-Sharpening-Jig-p775.html

Regards,
Cam

That looks like a relabelled Wolverine setup.
I have one from USA. Works well. Every grind is repeatable and easy to setup and use. A good purchase.
Phil

[Luke Maddux]

I say keep the tools you have, learn to sharpen freehand, learn to HONE (which a lot of turners treat as optional for god know's what reason) and invest that money in more wood to blunt the tools which then need to be resharpened.

Then, sell the things you make with the wood until you have your money back, and then revisit the idea of the investment knowing what you know after spending the time it took to turn those items, to blunt and sharpen the tools, and to, in turn, improve and broaden your skill set.

My AU$0.02

Good luck,
Luke

[Dalboy]

Learn to sharpen first and wear out the tools you have.

So buy the jig and as you wear out the old ones replace as need be

+1 for that. I free hand all my tools with a wide wheel grinder(White wheel) and the only aid I use is a home made platform.

HERE (http://www.turningtools.co.uk/widgets/grindingjig/wtsharpen.pdf) is an idea of a home made system

[chuck1]

I agree the comments above, I'm a free hand grinder also, I takes a while to master but once you get it, it's great!
also keep an eye out for secondhand tools when you know what your looking for.
and purchase when needed.
it does help when you know what your looking at. I just bought the Robert sorby tool for the crushgrind mills for $14 at a garage sale. Which I thought was a fair price.

[Paul39]

Captainkirk,

I have a wolverine system and 8 inch 1725 RPM grinder which came with the used lathe.

I find free hand sharpening using the platform is easy for scrapers and skews, slightly less so for spindle gouges. I really like the jig for bowl gouges as I get a nice repeatable swept back grind each time.

I also use the jig for my spindle gouges for the same reason.

I would not buy any more turning tools until you have spent 50 hours in front of the lathe. By then you will know you need a specific tool for a specific purpose.

If you get addicted to making bowls from abrasive Aussie timber you may want to buy a tool that uses carbide bits. I find the carbide does not make as nice a finish as a freshly sharpened HSS bowl gouge, so I am still finishing with that.

Lots of specialized tools can be ground from a tool you never use that came in a set, such as a tool for making a spigot or recess to chuck a bowl blank. A curved edge skew can be ground from a skew or a scraper.

I do 90% bowls and don't have a spindle roughing gouge. I find a 5/8 inch bowl gouge works as well. Sometimes I use a 1/2 inch square scraper. The object is to knock the corners off the spindle, how you do it doesn't much matter.

ESPECIALLY do not buy any Famous Turner endorsed or branded tool that promises or implies you will be an expert turner in only 10 minutes of practice.

If you must have a Famous Turner tool, take your good HSS tool and write that persons name on it. It will then do all the wondrous things promised by the Famous Turners tool.:D:D:D

[captainkirk]

Thanks to everyone for their input here on this topic. By way of an update I share the following:

It appears that the tools I got with my recent lathe purchase (second hand) are not made of HSS (Carbide?).

I have since purchased some P&N tools without handles and have started the task of making handles (see pic of first one below).

Thanks to a local club member, I was able to shape and sharpen the cutting edge of the new tools.

Next purchase - 8 inch grinder, cbn sharpening wheel and jig system of some type, probably wolverine.

358258

[Big A]

Quote: "learn to HONE (which a lot of turners treat as optional for god know's what reason)"

These may sound like sarcastic questions, but is it worth honing a tool to use on dry Ironbark? Or any of our Aussie hardwoods? Perhaps for the finish cuts?

I have a lot to learn, but I have at least ceased using the four inch Makita chisel.

Alister.

[Paul39]

It appears that the tools I got with my recent lathe purchase (second hand) are not made of HSS (Carbide?).

I have not heard of any solid carbide wood turning tools. I have a couple of Craftsman carbide tipped scrapers sold by Sears & Roebuck.

The tips are brazed on a rectangular steel shaft. You can see this on carbide tipped saw blades.

There are also replaceable carbide tip tools:

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/images/ewt_16_set_l.jpg

Did you do a spark test on the tools you have? See:

http://www.capeforge.com/Spark%20testing.html

Do not discount high carbon steel tools, sharpened and honed they do very well for the final finishing cuts.

Nice looking tool handle, you have got spindle turning figured out.

[Paul39]

Quote: "learn to HONE (which a lot of turners treat as optional for god know's what reason)"

These may sound like sarcastic questions, but is it worth honing a tool to use on dry Ironbark? Or any of our Aussie hardwoods? Perhaps for the finish cuts?

I have a lot to learn, but I have at least ceased using the four inch Makita chisel.

Alister.

I started wood turning with a 7 X 12 Chinese metal lathe using a sharpened screwdriver and bench chisel.

8 inch 1725 rpm grinder, 220 grit white aluminum oxide wheels. Wolverine System.

When I am roughing out a bowl, I start with a freshly sharpened bowl gouge and hog off timber until it slows down cutting, then resharpen, repeat.

When I get down to the final cut before sanding I sharpen and hone the inside of the gouge with a piece of rolled up 220 - 320 grit sand paper and take off just a whisker of timber.

For scrapers, I have my platform set on the grinder to give me about an 80 degree angle with the cutting side down. A light swipe raises a nice burr that I present to the bowl in the trailing position. This takes off a thinner than tissue paper shaving. That nice edge lasts about one pass over the bowl.

For roughing gouges I give it a freehand swipe resting the shaft on the platform.

After roughing, I start on a spindle with a cheap Chinese skew sharpened freehand. Then finish with a Henry Taylor that is honed on 320 grit sandpaper held on the lathe bed. When the HT needs sharpening I use a Tormek. The same could be done with 120 grit paper on a flat. I have a couple of granite flats that are cut outs from sink installations. One from a dumpster, one $5.00.

I see no point in honing and getting a razor sharp edge when roughing. That fine edge is gone in 15 -30 seconds.

Some will dispute that attitude. Sex, politics, and religion discussions are mild compared to turning tools and sharpening.

Everyone has to work out what works for them.

[captainkirk]

Interesting link there on spark testing. I guess the tools are carbon steel, not carbide. They get very hot when sharpening and lose their edge rather quick. Judging by the sparkfest, I would say medium carbon.

[Paul39]

Interesting link there on spark testing. I guess the tools are carbon steel, not carbide. They get very hot when sharpening and lose their edge rather quick. Judging by the sparkfest, I would say medium carbon.

One of my 220 grit wheels was bought barely used at a very reduced price. It would overheat tools much faster than the other 220. Apparently that is why it was sold.

I have learned to do a quick swipe, lightly, with my carbon tools on that one. If it needs more sharpening I will put the tool flat on the lathe bed to suck some of the heat out, then another swipe.

[Mobyturns]

I've just spent the weekend at Innisfail Woodworkers Learn & Turn weekend & on the way home I made a house call to provide little bit of one on one coaching for a lesson on how to set up a "wet grinder" and solve some bowl gouge sharpening issues. We managed to get a "Tormek" like quality grind & profile on a Hamlet 3/8" bowl gouge using a budget “909" brand wet grinder and a home made facsimile of a "Tormek" SVD185 gouge jig. A few design issues which could be overcome fairly easily. Not as refined as the Tormek jig setup but it did the job adequately. Only significant issue was that the stone/wheel was very very soft! Proves my point - learn to use the tools you have.

Sorry no pics - this dummy didn't even think to take photos.

[Big A]

Paul39,

Thanks for your reply - it is as I thought. Within reason, do what you got to to get the unwanted wood off and then use some finesse to get the desired finish. Well, in my case, a finish as I do not always get what I desire!

You all know how long it takes to get to the bottom of a tearout, don't you? Best not to get the tearout in the first place.

One day - sigh.

Cheers,
Alister.