Bowl gouge size

[greyhound]

Currently using a very old and now very short PN bowl gouge which I need to replace.
thinking of going to Robert Sorby only because I can not be bothered going through the polishing process on a new PN.
My old PN was factory polished.
How do Robert Sorby measure their gouges ,the outside or across the flutes?
want to get a direct replacement of my current 12mm
They list a 13 mm and a 10 mm
Are Thompson tools polished?

[Paul39]

Have a look here, there will be specifications and photos of a bunch of tools:

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Woodturning Tools (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tools)

I have slowly polished the inside of my bowl gouges with a rolled up piece of sandpaper, starting at the tip. I did not find it tedious to do a few strokes now and then to keep the cutting edge smooth.

[greyhound]

Have a look here, there will be specifications and photos of a bunch of tools:

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Woodturning Tools (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tools)

I have slowly polished the inside of my bowl gouges with a rolled up piece of sandpaper, starting at the tip. I did not find it tedious to do a few strokes now and then to keep the cutting edge smooth.
Thanks for the reply and information had a look at the site but dose not mention or show weather they measure the outside of the steel or across the flutes?

[Treecycle]

Don't know if this (http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning_Tools/Bowl_Gouges/bowl_gouges.html) helps or confuses the matter further.

[issatree]

Hi Greyhound,
In 34 yrs. I have never ever had to Polish a P&N Bowl Gouge.
Why Polish it, as I don't think it wood make much difference.
IMHO stay with P&N. I have a real aversion to Sorby.
Have a look at John McJing Tools, as I find that Steel much better.
From what I have only read Thompson is rather good.
Woodcut as well, ask Brendan Stemp about them.

[Paul39]

Don't know if this (http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning_Tools/Bowl_Gouges/bowl_gouges.html) helps or confuses the matter further.

That is my understanding about bowl gouges. Sometimes manufacturers will state the outside is 1/8 inch larger than the stated size. I have a Crown 1/2 inch bowl gouge which has a 5/8 inch outside diameter.

As to quality of steel, I have the Crown, no name Sheffield steel, Thompson, and Penn State Industries Chinese bowl gouges, and can detect no difference between the sharpness and cutting time between sharpenings.

I see no difference between a bowl gouge that has been polished on the inside or not when roughing, but it does make a difference when doing the final few passes with a freshly sharpened and honed gouge on spalted, soft, or punky timber. I will sharpen, using a 200 grit wheel on a dry grinder using a sharpening jig, then hone the inside with some rolled up 220 grit. Doing that over and over gets the inside nice and smooth.

[Paul39]

Thanks for the reply and information had a look at the site but dose not mention or show weather they measure the outside of the steel or across the flutes?

Here:

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Bowl Gouges (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-srby-bg)

it says: Used for making bowls designed with a deep flute for quick and easy stock removal leaving an excellent finish. Size of gouge is 1/8" larger in diameter than size listed. Overall Length 23". Fingernail gouges not shown above.

[greyhound]

Here:

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Bowl Gouges (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-srby-bg)

it says: Used for making bowls designed with a deep flute for quick and easy stock removal leaving an excellent finish. Size of gouge is 1/8" larger in diameter than size listed. Overall Length 23". Fingernail gouges not shown above.
Hi Paul yes this is what I was looking for did not read the site closely when I first looked at it :doh:thank you for pointing me to it.
just one more question apart from the grind is there any other difference between the standard bowl gouge and the finger nail gouge (do they booth come from the same bar stock?)

Thanks to all for the comments and information much appreciated

[Paul39]

Greyhound,

I believe the steel is the same. I am so cheap that I would buy the standard grind and slowly bring it to the fingernail as I resharpened. I got the Thompson bowl gouge, which came with an Ellsworth grind, in return for setting up a lathe. I started a cut on the inside of a bowl with the Thompson and had a spectacular catch. I ground it back to a more conventional shape over several sharpenings.

[NeilS]

Traditionally the UK measurement was flute size and in Australia and the US it was bar size (diameter), but the UK measurement is variable, see previous post here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/initial-impressions-crown-pro-pm-1-bowl-gouge-127692#post1243765).

The Thompson gouges come with better flute milling than P&N, but I still polished mine. If you are looking for a pre-polished flute, also have a look at the D-way gouge (http://d-waytools.com/gouges/1-2-bowl-gouge-fingernail-grind/). They come with a highly polished flute and give the best finishing cut of any of my gouges (I have most makes).

[greyhound]

Traditionally the UK measurement was flute size and in Australia and the US it was bar size (diameter), but the UK measurement is variable, see previous post here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/initial-impressions-crown-pro-pm-1-bowl-gouge-127692#post1243765).

The Thompson gouges come with better flute milling than P&N, but I still polished mine. If you are looking for a pre-polished flute, also have a look at the D-way gouge (http://d-waytools.com/gouges/1-2-bowl-gouge-fingernail-grind/). They come with a highly polished flute and give the best finishing cut of any of my gouges (I have most makes).
Hi Neil swaying towards a Thompson for a change any dealers in Australia?

[Mobyturns]

SE QLD Woodworking Supplies Woodworking Supplies S/E QLD - Thompson Turning Tools (http://www.woodworkingsuppliesqld.com.au/Thompson-Turning-Tools) carry a range of Thompson tools.

Like NeilS I find the P&N tools quite good, I have Robert Sorby, Hamlet, Woodcut (replaceable tip) and Thompson tools with all but Sorby in bowl and spindle gouges. Each has its own merits such as the Woodcut replaceable tip gouges - stiffer solid shaft = less harmonics but relatively expensive as $ per cm of use able tool length. The extra heft of the Thompsons is very nice but it gets back to personal preference for flute shape & grind angle. Doug Thompson also makes a range of signature tools which may have the characteristics you desire see Home - Thompson Tools (http://thompsonlathetools.com/)

[greyhound]

SE QLD Woodworking Supplies Woodworking Supplies S/E QLD - Thompson Turning Tools (http://www.woodworkingsuppliesqld.com.au/Thompson-Turning-Tools) carry a range of Thompson tools.

Like NeilS I find the P&N tools quite good, I have Robert Sorby, Hamlet, Woodcut (replaceable tip) and Thompson tools with all but Sorby in bowl and spindle gouges. Each has its own merits such as the Woodcut replaceable tip gouges - stiffer solid shaft = less harmonics but relatively expensive as $ per cm of use able tool length. The extra heft of the Thompsons is very nice but it gets back to personal preference for flute shape & grind angle. Doug Thompson also makes a range of signature tools which may have the characteristics you desire see Home - Thompson Tools (http://thompsonlathetools.com/)
Thanks had a look and found SE QLD supplies only have a 5/8 V listed @ $110

[NeilS]

Greyhound - as Moby has posted, to my knowledge Woodworking Supplies S/E QLD - Thompson Turning Tools (http://www.woodworkingsuppliesqld.com.au/Thompson-Turning-Tools) is your best/only source in Australia. The Jimmy Clewes signature range is made by Doug Thompson (same steel and heat treatment). My understanding is that the flute is deeper on the Clewes than Doug's standard V (actually neither is a V but variations of the catenary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catenary) curve).

That is a good price being offered on the 1/2" Clewes by WS S/E Qld. Let me help you with your decision, if you buy it and don't like it I will buy if off you at your cost...:wink:

Likewise, also have a look at the Vicmarc bowl gouges. They come with a parabolic flute profile and also use V10 steel, but I have not seen any claims about their heat treatment. At least two suppliers; GPW and Carrolls. Again, if you don't like it I will take it off you, etc ..... not a lot of risk in that.

[rsser]

In terms of flute finish I've found quite a bit of variation within a brand except for Sorby. And with Sorby I've found variation in steel quality :doh:

[Mobyturns]

In terms of flute finish I've found quite a bit of variation within a brand except for Sorby. And with Sorby I've found variation in steel quality :doh:

... and centering of the milled flute within the blank with some brands. I have attempted to correct the grinds for a couple of turners having problems with jigs - or so they thought. Turned out that the flute was slightly offset which makes a huge difference to the symmetry of the grind profile. Quite difficult to correct.

[NeilS]

If I received a gouge with an off-centre flute I would return it to the supplier, although I have never had that problem with a major brand. But, I did once get a gouge with a fault in the powdered metal compression (micro pitting) and the supplier/maker replaced it without hesitation.

It is understandable that there is some variation in flute finish on gouges from the same maker. The catenary or parabolic shape is not an off-the-shelf cutter or grindstone profile and makers are not going to replace this expensive tooling at the first sign of minor striations. If you get a gouge off the last pass from a tool that will then be discarded or reground then the flute is going to have more flaws than than a gouge that comes off fresh or refreshed tooling.

There are a few makers who go the extra distance and consistently bring their flutes up to a flaw-free and polished finish. Of those, I particularly like the D-way (it has very fine particle steel and gives a very nice finishing cut). But, work hard enough on something as rough as the old P&Ns and you will eventually get a fine polished flute; they are very economical if you don't count your own time.

[NCPaladin]

I think this illustrates how the measurements are made. For the UK it is from one edge of the flute to the opposite outside diameter, not across the top edges of the flute. The diameter of the bar is "about" 1/8" larger.
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