I tried turning a bowl...

[Kuffy]

Today I found myself with not much to do other than apply some danish oil to a coffee table top, ill do it later. So I quickly cut up a blank of figured redgum ~200x200x40 and cut it into a circle using the bandsaw. Drilled a 8mm hold to accept the woodworm screw in the center, or close to center. Mounted it in the lathe. I was extremely impressed by the holding power of that single woodworm screw. Set the lathe to 2nd slowest speed which i don't know how fast it is, but it seemed to be about 800rpm. turned it on and the blank was running very true on the two faces, so my chuck and spindle are in good shape. The edge was out a bit, but i just roughly freehanded the cutting on the bandsaw so it was to be expected.

The plan was to make just a simple bowl, no fancy beads, coves or ogee shape. Basically like a cheap plastic dog dish. I smoothed out the edge and rolled the bottom corner slightly. Then I began to try to cut a mortise in the base so I could remount the bowl in the chuck in expansion mode. And it was here when i struck trouble. I tried cutting the mortise for a few minutes before being a chicken and put the tools down and said "nuh uh! no way am im gonna try to do that!!!"

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Thats the set of tools I have available. Its a low quality set of shallow fluted spindle gouges, scrapers, flat skews and a parting tool. I couldn't see a way to present any of those shallow fluted spindle gouges inside the mortise without catching the corners on the timber. I could use the parting tool, but I would have to do the same thing to hollow out the bowl. So I called it quits before I ended up with a chisel through my forehead. I reckon i'll reshape those spindle gouges anyways, they are very close to square across the width of the chisel.
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[Christos]

Use the parting tool to create the outer limit for the mortise.

One thing to consider is moving the tool rest away from the work piece so that the main shaft of the parting tool is resting on the tool rest and not the bevel of the tool.

I should also add that you can made the whole mortise using the parting tool by plunging the tool then moving a little bit and plunge in again. One thing to look out for is the corner where the jaws will grab is to be very crisp at that junction.

[Kuffy]

I just placed an order for a 12mm bowl gouge. I tried to find some used lathe chisels, but they seem pretty rare. Of course I'll find a dozen gouges on gumtree later this evening. Its the universe's way of saying 'hahahahahahaahh sucked in!' :)

[smiife]

Hi kuffy,
Not too sure where you are in vic? But you should try
and see someone in your area and get them to reshape
and sharpen your tools for you , perhaps you could visit
your local club/mens shed and get some advice , your tools
just don, t look like are sharpened or shaped properly.
Don, t be put off if things don, t go right, woodies are mostly
very happy to help and give advice , so just ask .........:U

[Kuffy]

I was pretty sure the tools had been butchered by a previous owner. The skew has a very low grinding angle, same goes for the parting tool. The shallow spindle gouges shape doesn't resemble anything I had seen in the past, not that I go out of my way to look. But before reshaping them into something which seems more familiar, I figured I'll give em a try as is. I can learn from doing the wrong thing quicker than I learn from doing the right thing. I did grind a fresh edge while maintaining the current shape before taking tool to timber. They didn't work very well on that bowl. no clearance on the sides of the tool. I gave it a quick run on a small spindle and also found it very easy to catch the corners of the tool. So I learnt that if I ever get too relaxed with my sharpening and allow the tool shape to deteriorate that far, I'll have to stop everything and reshape properly :)

Depending on what time I get back from the other side of town tomorrow arvo, i'll reshape the big gouge into something that resembles a fingernail profile and give it a go on that bowl. Its still the wrong tool for the job, but I don't expect the bowl gouge that I ordered to arrive until next week, and I don't have much/any patience.

[Paul39]

Depending on what time I get back from the other side of town tomorrow arvo, i'll reshape the big gouge into something that resembles a fingernail profile and give it a go on that bowl. Its still the wrong tool for the job, but I don't expect the bowl gouge that I ordered to arrive until next week, and I don't have much/any patience.

I would do one of the smaller gouges. The large one will want to take a bigger bite and will exert more force on the handle. If you have a catch or go too deep the bowl may be flung out of the lathe.

The smaller gouge will not be as hard to handle, and if you have a catch or go to deep you will probably only get a spiral trench in the bowl.

One hour of instruction by an experienced turner will save you days if not weeks of trial and error.

When you get your bowl gouge do not put too much of a fingernail grind on it. The fingernail grind can be very aggressive. I would start with the conventional grind and go more swept back as you get more practice. See:

http://woodturninglearn.net/articles/sharpen2.htm

[chucky]

Kuffy,

As mentioned by Smiife Do yourself a big favor Join a Woodturning Club most members are prepare to show you or advise you about all aspects related to turning & including sharpening. You are most welcome to visit look around our club which is not far from you located at Kingsbury (Northern Woodturners) We have had both male & female people whom have not turned before become great turners. The knowledge & advice that is available you will never obtain by making mistakes or reading books.

[Kuffy]

Joining a woodturning club is good advice.

I did spend the day on Easter Sunday with a pro woodturner. He was fantastic. Showed me sharpening, using his fancy CBN wheels. Yep, he probably cost me 200+bux because I want CBN now ;) I had sharpened my chisels to be about the right shape, but the wrong bevel angle, which I already knew because at ~30degrees the edge just folded over against the redgum. Re-sharpened to ~45degrees and the tools were good versus pine. Then he showed me beads with the skew chisel, and beads and coves with the spindle gouges. I didn't master either the skew or the gouges. But I understand where I am going wrong and it will be fixed with a bit of practice and patience, gonna be a lot of practice because I lack the latter.

I received my new P&N 12mm bowl gouge this arvo. Does P&N deliberately grind the flute off center in there gouges? or is just a consistent mistake?

[Christos]

J....Does P&N deliberately grind the flute off center in there gouges? or is just a consistent mistake?

This is the second time that I heard this. I have been thinking about what was said the first time I heard it and cannot see it making a big difference as the sharpening can be adjusted accordingly. I should really check my chisels. :rolleyes:

[Zeeber]

I know it's not close to you, but if you found yourself in the Glen Huntly area, feel free to swing by - I have a few spare chisels you can have, I'm a firm believer in the capabilities of the bowl gouge. I can give you a quick lesson too if you want, an hour will make big difference as someone mentioned earlier.

[Paul39]

This is the second time that I heard this. I have been thinking about what was said the first time I heard it and cannot see it making a big difference as the sharpening can be adjusted accordingly. I should really check my chisels. :rolleyes:
Kuffy,

I refreshed one of my bowl gouges the other day and got it a bit twisted in the jig. When I went back to using it one side cut fine the the other would not.

I would take a look at yours straight on from the front and see if the flute is indeed off center. Then sharpen it using a jig and have a try at turning a bowl, using both sides to see how it cuts. If you are using the traditional grind, it probably won't make much or any difference. My resharpening was a medium swept back grind.

If you don't yet feel experienced enough to pass judgment, You might have an experienced turner sharpen and have a go at turning with it.

If you are paying full price for a new gouge, you should be getting full quality for your money.

If it is difficult to get it exchanged and it cuts OK as a traditional bottom feeding gouge, you could keep it for that and later get another one for a swept back grind for doing the outside of bowls and the rim to almost the bottom of the inside.

If you are cutting reasonably hard timber you may not ever need a swept back gouge.

Some time ago I got a screaming deal on 5 gouges, one a 5/8 inch Henry Taylor bottom feeder, and another a 3/8 inch Ellsworth very swept back grind.

I had roughed a bowl with the HT and it had some rough end grain on the inside. I made a pass with the 3/8 inch swept back grind from the rim to almost the bottom. It was so slick I could have oiled it and called it done.

It has taken me a couple years of practice to use a swept back gouge on the inside. I have made quite a few spiral trenches on the inside of bowls, fortunately I still had enough thickness to clean up the mess with a heavy scraper and still have a bowl.

[CAG]

Paul,

I don't know if it's an American term, but what's a bottom feeding gouge?

[Paul39]

Paul,

I don't know if it's an American term, but what's a bottom feeding gouge?


See: https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/129/5577/Henry-Taylor-Mike-Mahoney-Signature-Bottom-Feeder

It looks to be a traditional grind bowl gouge with the wings cut back a bit. I bought mine used but new looking a few months ago for $40. It works fine for both the inside and outside a bowl. It is used straight in at about 90 degrees to the bowl as opposed to the slicing angle with a swept back grind, as in the Ellsworth, at its most extreme.

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Ellsworth Gouge (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tools-ellsw-gouge)

If you push the bottom feeder straight in it goes in like a twist drill, then pull sideways and it plows off timber. It does a finishing cut on the bottom nicely, but coming up the side does not cut as smooth as the more swept back grind gouge. That may be because I don't have as much practice with the bottom feeder.

I was given a swept back gouge in return for setting up a lathe some years ago. I tried it on the inside of a bowl and made a great spiral trench and jerked the bowl out of the chuck. This is why I advise new turners to start with a traditional grind - rather blunt - then as they get practice change the angle on the jig to get more swept back.

I think if a person is going to do a lot of bowls it would be nice to have a bottom feeder and a swept back grind gouge.

[Paul39]

If you push the bottom feeder straight in it goes in like a twist drill, then pull sideways and it plows off timber. It does a finishing cut on the bottom nicely, but coming up the side does not cut as smooth as the more swept back grind gouge. That may be because I don't have as much practice with the bottom feeder.

I just roughed a 350 mm black walnut bowl. I used the bottom feeder on the outside which left a slightly rough finish. I then used a swept back gouge to clean up the roughness. Out of curiosity I gave the bottom feeder a swipe on the grinder and did a finish cut next to the cut from the swept back gouge. They were equally smooth.

I did the same on the inside, both gouges give a clean cut. As with everything it is a matter of practice, and maybe how you hold your mouth.