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bosco
2nd Sep 2005, 05:41 PM
I am going to install some pre-finished solid timber flooring ( Kempas ) on a concrete slab in a new home. I have read about the methods on plywood and batterns but has anyone glued the flooring directly to the slab as i am trying to keep the height down to a minimun so there is no stepping down to the tiled areas

Thanks

glock40sw
2nd Sep 2005, 06:19 PM
My best advise...

Get a professional floor installer to do it.
Direct stick is NOT for the DYIer.

Ya know what KEMPAS means in english????

Answer is: Crrapp

Aussie Hardwood Rulz.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Grafton

bosco
2nd Sep 2005, 07:00 PM
Aussie Hardwood may rule but the price dosen't.

If i could get the wood for the same price $41 m for pre-finished boards i would use it
Cheers

Gaza
2nd Sep 2005, 07:53 PM
two words


GOOD LUCK

Direct stick sucks & Pre-finished asian timbers x3 suck. Do both and have fun redoing it in 12 months time.

60X19mm Battens @ 450CC or 15MM PLYWOOD. will do the trick,

bosco
2nd Sep 2005, 07:57 PM
Gaza

Have you had any issues with asian timbers. If so what were they

echnidna
2nd Sep 2005, 08:02 PM
They are soft and damage easily

bosco
2nd Sep 2005, 08:12 PM
Kempas has a hardness rating of 7.5 which is not to bad and better than most Australian timbers

Gaza
2nd Sep 2005, 08:31 PM
1st Kempass is ok in regard to hardness its lots better than there other timbers.

2nd the technology required to produce a pre-finished soild timber flooring is huge, - drying and stability of timber
- Machining
- Application of finsh
- stability of final product
- after sales service / no one to turn to if problem
- reduced production stds, no national systems in place.

Arron
2nd Sep 2005, 08:52 PM
Bosco, why wouldnt you just put down a floating floor.

Worked for us - laid a floor DIY in less then a day. Cheap. Nice looking. Lasts well. Sits directly on a foam underlay on the concrete.

Arron

Skew ChiDAMN!!
2nd Sep 2005, 09:45 PM
I'd go with a 3-ply base. Surely the few extra mm wouldn't hurt, if it does you cshould be able to get the boards in 12mm thickness to allow for it. If you discover the kempas isn't what you wanted it's alot easier to lift/replace segments of ply than to remove individual boards & adhesive from cement...

'Tis called "hedging your bets..."

johnc
3rd Sep 2005, 10:54 PM
There is a product to fix boards directly to concrete that you apply similar to a tile base, just screed on with a notched trowel and put down the board. It is fairly new and I don't know the name but if interested I could probably find out.

JohnC

slats
3rd Sep 2005, 11:35 PM
I am going to install some pre-finished solid timber flooring ( Kempas ) on a concrete slab in a new home. I have read about the methods on plywood and batterns but has anyone glued the flooring directly to the slab as i am trying to keep the height down to a minimun so there is no stepping down to the tiled areas

Thanks
Hi bosco. I am a professional floor installer i deal in bamboo flooring but have installed a lot of varieties by direct stick method. Dont let the cowboys put you off direct stick. Firstly put down a moisture barrier which is applied by a roller and is very simple to do. Just like painting a floor. If your slab is a under 5%
moisture they say there is no need for a moisture barrier.Do it any way and all future problems are solved.Then stick it down with sika bond glue applied with a notched trowled.Floors that i have done are some ten years old with no problems.Done probaly direcy stick is the best and cheapest way.
Regards Gary.

slats
3rd Sep 2005, 11:39 PM
I am going to install some pre-finished solid timber flooring ( Kempas ) on a concrete slab in a new home. I have read about the methods on plywood and batterns but has anyone glued the flooring directly to the slab as i am trying to keep the height down to a minimun so there is no stepping down to the tiled areas

Thanks
For the record .Strand woven bamboo has a janka rating of 15.3 compered to
kempas around eight.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
4th Sep 2005, 12:58 AM
I am a professional floor installer i deal in bamboo flooring but have installed a lot of varieties by direct stick method. Dont let the cowboys put you off direct stick.

You lay 'em, I rip 'em up. I despise direct stick, not because it doesn't work but 'cos it does! Makes more work for me, especially when aged and/or the slab was poor quality.

It's not the direct stick itself I have doubts about in bosco's case, but that he's using kempas and wants to keep height to a minimum. If the kempas doesn't meet his expectations over, say, 5 years and he wants to replace it then he doesn't have the option of laying over the top. It has to come up.

Good point about the MC barrier though.

BTW, I'm not bagging kempas either, haven't had enough to do with it to form an opinion. When it comes to floors, I'm a darksider. :rolleyes:

corbs
4th Sep 2005, 10:29 AM
Not an expert but I thought I would throw in. If you go direct stick pray that you like it because you dont want to be the one pulling it up. If you wont be the one pulling it up then direct stick. The pic below is my bamboo floor that I installed direct stick after sealing the slab. The product is compressed bamboo which is supposed to have a janka rating of 14.7, its taken a hiding from 2 boys and a dog and still looks great with a quick sweep and mop after nearly 2 years.

<img src="http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b179/corbs1975/100_0623.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

Good luck
Corbs

bosco
6th Sep 2005, 08:50 AM
Thanks for the advice i still have not made up my mind which way to go but i will let you all know how it turns out

Bosco

Andy Mac
6th Sep 2005, 09:15 AM
I haven't had any experience with this, and prolly never will (love a real polished timber floor though) but just thought I'd relate something I saw. It was a year ago while visiting my family in Perth, in a very upmarket display home. The floor was Aussie hardwood I think, laid directly on a slab I reckon 'cos of the height, lack of steps and the concrete hard feel, but the whole thing looked appalling. The sun was shining through a huge french door (opening onto a landscaped pool of course) throwing shadows...and each board was cupped so much it looked like it was corrugated:eek: . I surmised that the top was drying at a faster rate (shrinking) than the underside, as it is was sealed-in against the concrete, therefore expanding upwards at the long joins. Certainly put me off ever contemplating such a floor. My opinion is that any method of fixing the boards so air is free to circulate (ie. a floating floor) would balance the drying rate, and solve the cupping problem.

Anyone with experience feel free to comment about this, perhaps I just saw a poor job, or a one-in-a-million situation.
Cheers,

journeyman Mick
6th Sep 2005, 03:39 PM
Andy
air is not free to circulate under a floating floor. If a proper membrane is used on a dry concrete slab all should be well with the direct stick, but personally I prefer a traditional timber floor (besides, I'm a carpenter and prefer laying bearers and joists on stumps to pouring a concrete slab :rolleyes: )

Mick

vsquizz
7th Sep 2005, 12:18 AM
. I surmised that the top was drying at a faster rate (shrinking) than the underside, as it is was sealed-in against the concrete, therefore expanding upwards at the long joins. Cheers,

The theory is partially correct. Its not the air drying it (rather the opposite depending on the weather) but the moisture coming out of the slab that is the problem.

The area not to skimp on is the moisture barrier and timber, or rather the quality control of the timber. You can have what ever type of timber you like but it wont matter wether its the best in the world if the miller/timber yard has not dried it properly. Then you have to ask how has the timber been handled and stored since it left the yard. I regularly see shiploads of Kapur arriving in Fremantle, stored on open decks unprotected???...This timber often goes to certain large hardware chain stores for sale to the unsuspecting public.

A rule of thumb for the concrete slab is it must be a least six months old before applying a timber floor.

If you have confidence in the quality control of your supplier, then follow the advice of the other posts as you see fit.

Cheers

cathnniv
18th Nov 2005, 01:32 PM
Hi bosco. I am a professional floor installer i deal in bamboo flooring but have installed a lot of varieties by direct stick method. Dont let the cowboys put you off direct stick. Firstly put down a moisture barrier which is applied by a roller and is very simple to do. Just like painting a floor. If your slab is a under 5%
moisture they say there is no need for a moisture barrier.Do it any way and all future problems are solved.Then stick it down with sika bond glue applied with a notched trowled.Floors that i have done are some ten years old with no problems.Done probaly direcy stick is the best and cheapest way.
Regards Gary.

Hi Gary,
I am about to lay ironbark tongue and groove boards to a concrete slab and am wondering the best way to go. Direct to slab (Old home) or laying battens will may affect the height too much.

If i can avoid battens i'd like to.
What is the name of the glue i'd need and what procedure would you suggest?

I've been told i should lay builders plastic, masonite then glue boards? would this work?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanx

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