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brendan stemp
7th Feb 2017, 08:59 AM
I thought this might be of interest for some.
https://youtu.be/J-Brxc3c3bM

Phily
7th Feb 2017, 01:53 PM
Hi Brendan, just wondering what speed you were running at? I have an earlier version of the saver; a great tool and relatively easy to use. The reason for asking about speed is chatter avoidence. Not sure if chatter is inherent with this type of tool, if its a lathe or human speed issue, or perhaps technique. The chatter is more offputting than problematic, but would be nice to eliminate.
Cheers
Phil

bench1holio
7th Feb 2017, 02:25 PM
Nice video Brendan.
It looks like a big improvement on the smaller woodcut bowl saver, although I would love to see another video of you doing that dry burl you held up in the end of the piece.

NeilS
9th Feb 2017, 10:07 AM
Not sure if chatter is inherent with this type of tool...


Some vibration (and noise) with the tip at full extension is to be expected, but to the extent that you would call it chatter seems excessive. Perhaps something in your rig is not fully clamped down tight.

Phil, no doubt you have checked all the screw and clamp points in your rig, but maybe worth checking again.

As Brendan pointed out in his video, setting the cutting point right on centre height is also important.

I tend to run my lathe at faster speeds than recommend, but do lighter cuts to help my 1.5hp lathe manage the task on the large cuts.

Keeping you tips sharp and at the recommended profile is another important factor in getting an efficient cut. It is a scraping tool that becomes a plough as soon it becomes blunt.


Stay sharp!

Neil

Phily
9th Feb 2017, 05:17 PM
As Brendan pointed out in his video, setting the cutting point right on centre height is also important
Neil

Why do I get so blind to the blindingly obvious )-: or in this case, the bindingly obvious!! The penny started to drop on reflection of Brendan's video where he adjusted the blade by a few mm part way through the cut. Then your comment Neil, on centre height smacked me in the jaw. Of course. This is a deep cutting scraper with an engineered shape designed to cut perfectly at the centre height. If its not exactly centred the blade will bind!

I had been cutting at centre height, 'give or take a little bit'. Obviously this is not a circumstance for taking a casual measurement. Trying to complete the save in one cut (ie. Not undertaking a clearing cut) I have been compounding the binding issue.

No wonder I got chatter. Lucky it wasn't even worse!!

Thanks Neil

Willy Nelson
9th Feb 2017, 09:35 PM
Great video,
My comments, if I may, hopefully, I don't offend too much, in order of appearance.

1. I thought the use of the chainsaw was at times a little dangerous (IMHO), the plunge cut and cutting the wings off.

2. Brendan needs a haircut! :U. What speed was the lathe, would a little faster have cut better?

3. The kerf of the bowl saver was, in my opinion quite wide, I gave this a fair amount of thought and I still can't imagine why the OEM made it so wide.

4. Wasn't keen on the idea of having to shift the bowl saver sideways to open the cut, I thought that should be unnecessary, especially given the width of the kerf. Others I have used, I can't recall doing that

5. I am in the market for a bowl saver, have been for a couple of years and have used the old wood cut system. I do like the Oneway, but at $1,000+, I will seriously think about the Max.

6. Would love to have seen the Red gum burl and the bowl saver, I am sure that would test it. Was the coring of the burl recorded?

7. Lastly, random fact. Stellite is widely used in the manufacture of .50 cal gun barrels as a liner to improve wear resistance. The barrels are lined only as Stellite is very expensive

Great video overall, and timely as I have just scored a trailer load of very large Camphor Laurel and another of Cape Lilac.
Well Done
Sincerely
Willy
and Brendan, get a haircut

NeilS
10th Feb 2017, 10:26 AM
4. Wasn't keen on the idea of having to shift the bowl saver sideways to open the cut, I thought that should be unnecessary, especially given the width of the kerf. Others I have used, I can't recall doing that



In my experience, opening up the kerf a bit helps with shaving clearance, especially on the deeper cuts. I do it as standard practice.

The cutter width is determined by the bar width and depth and that is determined by the depth of cut (ie the overhang between the tip and support point). Any narrower and the bar is going to bind somewhere.

As for Brendan's hair length, I would love to have enough hair to have it that long!

Stay sharp!

Neil

ronboult
10th Feb 2017, 01:19 PM
I am afraid I have to agree with Willy regarding the chainsaw operation. Some of what was shown could be ( is ) quite dangerous and I have to question including it in a public video.

I am also in the market for a Bowl Saver.

I think the Oneway is the best available (that I have found) but it is quite ( Extremely!!) expensive and suffers from the problem that the shape of the core is fixed to roughly a semicircle just like the woodcut. It however uses relatively cheap replaceable cutters that can also be resharpened many times and which cut a wider kerf than the blade hence less binding. There are several YouTube videos demonstrating its use. If you turn semi professionally or use expensive wood it would soon pay for itself.

If one wants a flexible system that can cut other than semi-circle bowls then have a look at the Ken McNaughton system but it does seem to require more skill to use that the Oneway.

I don't know of any agent for the Oneway in Au so shipping also adds significantly to the cost.
Ron

NeilS
11th Feb 2017, 12:18 PM
Besides the cost, another downside of the Oneway is the extra time that system takes to complete a cut with the frequent adjusting of the secondary support arm.

Not a significant factor if you are only doing an occasional core, but that discounts the argument in its favour that it will quickly pay for itself.

The Woodcut produces a similar style core and will be quicker and cheaper for us here.

And, yes, as Ron points out, the McNaughton is more flexible in its range of core shapes, but has a steeper learning curve. By the time you have mastered it you will have paid for it in cores saved, but also in sweat and tears...☺

I started with the Woodcut and that was a good place to start. When I moved over to the McNaughton I had no trouble selling the Woodcut and recovering enough of my investment in that to make the move without too much financial pain.

Stay sharp!

Neil

ronboult
11th Feb 2017, 01:12 PM
The Oneway seems to provide more support for the cutting arm than the woodcut and from what I have seen cuts quicker and smoother with less chatter. The demos seem to show only one or two adjustments needed for the support and in one of the videos the turner had replaced the adjusting nuts with permanently attached handles. There are also 4 sizes of cutter available for the Oneway, great if you turn large bowls.

I will probably buy one set of Oneway cutting arm and support arm ( each size is sold seperately ) and make my own base. Will save shipping weight and cost from US

Will try and write a review when I get to try one out.
Ron

Woodturnerjosh
11th Feb 2017, 03:56 PM
The Oneway seems to provide more support for the cutting arm than the woodcut and from what I have seen cuts quicker and smoother with less chatter. The demos seem to show only one or two adjustments needed for the support and in one of the videos the turner had replaced the adjusting nuts with permanently attached handles. There are also 4 sizes of cutter available for the Oneway, great if you turn large bowls.

I will probably buy one set of Oneway cutting arm and support arm ( each size is sold seperately ) and make my own base. Will save shipping weight and cost from US

Will try and write a review when I get to try one out.
Ron


I was going to do the same thing but I had a friend bring a system back for me (woohoo, free freight) and having used a Kelton for years and a good look at the Max I think the Oneway is the best system (for me anyway). If you want to know post diameters, etc send me a message (it might be a while before I have time to measure everything though)

Woodturnerjosh
11th Feb 2017, 05:48 PM
Besides the cost, another downside of the Oneway is the extra time that system takes to complete a cut with the frequent adjusting of the secondary support arm.

Not a significant factor if you are only doing an occasional core, but that discounts the argument in its favour that it will quickly pay for itself.



As Glenn Lucas uses this system to core out a few hundred bowls a week I would hardly say it's slower than the others. If you rough out all your outside profiles and then core them out in lots I actually find it faster, more consistent and more predictable than the Kelton. With a simple spacer I know the exact shape of the core before the knife even touches the blank.

NeilS
11th Feb 2017, 06:14 PM
As Glenn Lucas uses this system to core out a few hundred bowls a week I would hardly say it's slower than the others. If you rough out all your outside profiles and then core them out in lots I actually find it faster, more consistent and more predictable than the Kelton. With a simple spacer I know the exact shape of the core before the knife even touches the blank.

Experience speaks louder than mere speculation, Josh. As you have used both the Oneway and the McNaughton, I defer to your judgement on this!

I would hardly core several hundred in most years, let alone in any week, so the cost of a Oneway doesn't quite stack up for me at this stage, but it may do so for others, particularly if they have not already invested in another system.

Stay sharp!

Neil

Woodturnerjosh
11th Feb 2017, 06:36 PM
When it comes to production bowl turning and output I'm not sure he's 100% human! lol

I cored out about 300 last year with the Kelton (they are still drying under the house at the moment) and I was looking at the bowlsaver MAX as I wanted to take larger cores than the standard Kelton system with more uniformity. If I didn't have access to free freight I wouldn't have bought the Oneway. The base with the three smaller knives (I can't see a need for the largest one) still cost $1000 AUD and weighed 23kg

For smaller quantities the Kelton is easily faster (once you're used to it)

ronboult
11th Feb 2017, 07:00 PM
Hi Woodturnerjosh
thanks for the offer regarding the size of the base. I would normally just buy the base but shipping from the USA has become extremely expensive and the base appears to be made out of significant hunks of steel.
If I was going to buy just one coring set to try would you recommend the smallest or second smallest model?
Ron

Willy Nelson
11th Feb 2017, 10:51 PM
Cost.
I believe a few of us here are looking at cost incorrectly. I reckon if I cored out 3-4 bowls, it would PAY for the cost of the Oneway when I sell those bowls. I still reckon the Oneway system is the best and well over engineered, however, I reckon I will opt for a wood cut sooner than later for 1/2 the cost.
I have spent a fair bit lately, need more tourists over here in WA to buy our wonderful timbers .
We do need some piccys of the other systems to add to this thread, plus a review of each
Sincerely
Willy

PS Interesting discussion, I am enjoying this.

Gabriel
11th Feb 2017, 11:07 PM
I second the photos and actual reviews as whilst I'm not in the making money from turning caper, I do hate seeing too many shavings on the floor. My main thought of a bowl saver is so I could save the smaller cores to cut pen blanks from.......I know I know.... 'you pen turning guys cutting up perfectly good timber' but heck.... If I play my cards right, save cores to get 10 pens from, then I could certainly justify the cost of any system. Whilst I do like the idea of the woodfast as its obviously more available here, the others are spoken quite highly of so I would love to make the right decision when push comes to shove....

ronboult
12th Feb 2017, 08:47 AM
Hi Gabriel
I too dislike seeing wood wasted.
While I dont turn a large number of bowls I think there is a problem with wasting 7/8 of the wood in a blank as shavings. From an ecological point of view all the CO2 locked up in the timber is released back into the atmosphere as the shavings are discarded and decay.

brendan stemp
12th Feb 2017, 09:10 AM
Great video,
My comments, if I may, hopefully, I don't offend too much, in order of appearance.

1. I thought the use of the chainsaw was at times a little dangerous (IMHO), the plunge cut and cutting the wings off.

2. Brendan needs a haircut! :U. What speed was the lathe, would a little faster have cut better?

3. The kerf of the bowl saver was, in my opinion quite wide, I gave this a fair amount of thought and I still can't imagine why the OEM made it so wide.

4. Wasn't keen on the idea of having to shift the bowl saver sideways to open the cut, I thought that should be unnecessary, especially given the width of the kerf. Others I have used, I can't recall doing that

5. I am in the market for a bowl saver, have been for a couple of years and have used the old wood cut system. I do like the Oneway, but at $1,000+, I will seriously think about the Max.

6. Would love to have seen the Red gum burl and the bowl saver, I am sure that would test it. Was the coring of the burl recorded?

7. Lastly, random fact. Stellite is widely used in the manufacture of .50 cal gun barrels as a liner to improve wear resistance. The barrels are lined only as Stellite is very expensive

Great video overall, and timely as I have just scored a trailer load of very large Camphor Laurel and another of Cape Lilac.
Well Done
Sincerely
Willy
and Brendan, get a haircut

I am not going to enter into the discussion about the pros and cons of the MAX3 v Oneway or any other. I simply don't have the experience and think that those who have commented have brought much more to the discussion than I could. But Willy, I got a haircut one day before filming this. How short do you want it?
As for the use of the chainsaw...I think I use the chainsaw safely. It might not look like it but there are a few things I am doing that aren't obvious in the video that nuetralise many of the dangers. No I am not wearing chaps but to those that think I should then I suggest you need to wear a helmet every time you get in a car, driver or passenger.

brendan stemp
12th Feb 2017, 09:16 AM
I am afraid I have to agree with Willy regarding the chainsaw operation. Some of what was shown could be ( is ) quite dangerous and I have to question including it in a public video.
Ron

Such as...? I would genuinely like to know.

Woodturnerjosh
12th Feb 2017, 11:43 AM
Hi Woodturnerjosh
thanks for the offer regarding the size of the base. I would normally just buy the base but shipping from the USA has become extremely expensive and the base appears to be made out of significant hunks of steel.
If I was going to buy just one coring set to try would you recommend the smallest or second smallest model?
Ron

There's heaps of weight in the base and if you can get everything made up (or make it yourself) then there is a huge saving (I was surprised by how heavy and well built the base was)! A Canadian company (not oneway) is also making tungsten carbide cutters for these as well (I didn't know it at the time) and I think these would work really well if you plan on coring some dry and abrasive timber.

The cutter size is dependant on the size of blanks you work with. If you do things around 350 - 400mm then go for the #2 (second smallest) which will give you a core around 300mm.
Once you build the base you can always add cutters if you need.

Next time I use it I'll take some photos and start as new thread as I think we've de-railed this one! ;)

Cheers

Josh

Gabriel
12th Feb 2017, 01:38 PM
Back to the OP, a massive thanks to Brendan for his instructional video. I understand a few things may be in contention as far as what some people regard as safety issues, but that aside, the amount of effort, time and insight you manage to fit into your videos Brendan, I for one am grateful. Seeing products in use, especially in high quality video, doesn't happen enough from a consumer prospective . There are always plenty of manufacturer how to videos (always sceptical as they're often a little too good to be true) and many USA and UK reviews on products but always in the back of my mind I'm wondering if they have tested it on any timbers that stack up to the hardness of our 'go to' woods. So seeing a local review on a somewhat local product (we can claim it...right?) I am thrilled.

Cheers
Gab

quercus
15th May 2017, 09:36 PM
Here's a question - where do you get the large compass/ dividers ? would like a pair of those for roughing out blanks?

Chainsaw safety -I've seen much worse. Chaps are ok -my guys have to wear them, and regularly cut into them! - but I bet they wouldn't cut into their legs if they weren't wearing them - they seriously lead to complacency. I don't tend to wear them for this sort of work, you are keeping the saw well clear of your legs- chaps are good for lots of work in dense bush or thick foliage where you are liable to bump yourself.

The occasional "Tractor Steering wheel Grip" is the only problem - where you don't have your thumb looped under the chainsaw handle - (common chainsaw grip from farmers who didnt want to get their thumbs dislocated on old tractor steering wheels when they hit a stump.) This means if the saw kicks back, you are less likely to have the chain break come on as the saw jumps out of your grip. Brendan looks pretty competent to me. Raising the log up higher for less back strain would be the only other issue.

Great video

Kidbee
15th May 2017, 09:59 PM
Back to the OP, a massive thanks to Brendan for his instructional video. I understand a few things may be in contention as far as what some people regard as safety issues, but that aside, the amount of effort, time and insight you manage to fit into your videos Brendan, I for one am grateful. Seeing products in use, especially in high quality video, doesn't happen enough from a consumer prospective . There are always plenty of manufacturer how to videos (always sceptical as they're often a little too good to be true) and many USA and UK reviews on products but always in the back of my mind I'm wondering if they have tested it on any timbers that stack up to the hardness of our 'go to' woods. So seeing a local review on a somewhat local product (we can claim it...right?) I am thrilled.

Cheers
Gab

I agree.
Brendan's YouTube videos are very welcome and a great source of information for backyard turners like myself. An Australian turner who promotes Australian woods and great products of Australian and New Zealand manufacturers such as Vicmarc, Vermec and Woodcut.

Willy Nelson
11th Jun 2017, 05:12 PM
Let Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlmen
I watched a few videos on the use of the Kel McNaughton system. I struggled earlier on the first bowl and went through the bum, bugger, wasted a good bowl blank.
Back to YouTube, realised my mistake and had more of an idea.

I deliberately cut some large blanks to have another go with the bowl saver, cut some very large and wet jarrah and jacaranda. Was able to achieve more success, not overly happy with the wastage as the kerf is quite large and the shape is not the best, but I will get additional bowls out of a blank, so less waste, the bowls will dry quicker, and lastly, I had forgotten how much fun turning wet timber is. I felt like a professional turner, streams of shavings flying everywhere and water like it was raining in the workshop.

A big lathe makes bowl saving a lot easier and safer as well, the Vicmarc is 3 horsepower.

I have sealed with saved bowls with wax after processing and cut and milled a heap of Jarrah, Jacaranda as well as a heap of York Gum burls.

I calculate that my storage racks are now 99.9 per cent full, need to turn and carve more.

NeilS
12th Jun 2017, 11:30 AM
A big lathe makes bowl saving a lot easier and safer as well, the Vicmarc is 3 horsepower.




Coring is about the only time I feel the need for more than 1.5hp, although I can manage up to 18" blanks with that using the Reed Gray (aka Robo Hippy) pulse technique. e.g.




413987

I would take that into account if I was buying a new lathe, but not a sufficient reason for me to upgrade for just that 'nice to have' advantage.

Besides that, how many large blanks do you need in storage waiting to be returned at some stage?


413988 ... and there are about the same again elsewhere!


I have found that I only sell one large piece to every twenty smaller pieces, so at that rate I have to make and sell another two thousand smaller pieces before all that lot are gone... :U

torchwood
29th Jun 2017, 06:43 PM
Hi Brenden, can you explain to me why the largest bowl is cut out first. If you cut from small to large... then you wouldn't have to remount the blank each time, is that correct. Or am i missing something here. Thanks for the vid. Harry


Its ok, saw your next video explaining it,, thanks