Old patternmakers lathe, basic questions

[Arron]

Hi. I was given this old patternmakers lathe by a friend. It’s quite small, I think it wold be limited to objects about 300mm long. Seems to be in good working order. I’m not experienced with these, so I’ve got a few questions someone might be able to answer.

1. The nameplate has been removed. Any ideas on maker or make-date?

2. I declined to take the original motor, due to being a chicken with anything to do with electricity and not trusting old motors. What should I power it with?

3. The original toolrest for handheld work is missing. Any ideas where I can get one from?

4. The cutting tool currently in the sliding tool holder looks like a metalworking thing. It looks like a metal lathe tool but with a groove just inside the cutting edge. Is this what was used for timber. Can’t seem to find any close up photos of what should be used.

5. Can this be used for non-ferrous metals. I know it won’t be particularly accurate, but could it be used for small brass or aluminium items.

6. What is that large lever on the rhs used for. The one originating to the right of the outer headstock bearing, and pointing downwards such that it just protrudes over the drive belt lying on the ground?

7. What is the gear on the extreme right for, the one on the end of the main body/shaft.

8. The headstock spindle would have had a faceplate on the outboard (ie extreme rhs in my photo), wouldn’t it ?

9. Is it normal to have a drill chuck on the tailstock. Is it there just because the last user was doing very thin things. Would it be more normal for these things to have a live centre?

Otherwise, it looks like fun to play with, I’ve never used a rack and pinion tool holder before.
Cheers and thanks
Arron

438147

[DSEL74]

I think that’s a Drummond round bed lathe.

Plenty of info if you google it. This is a good starting point. There is also videos on utube
Drummond Round-bed Lathe (http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummondroundbed/)

It is a metalworking lathe.

[DSEL74]

It’s a flat belt driven lathe and you may want to go back and see it the cone pulley is on the original motor. You can also check what HP the original was.

[KBs PensNmore]

I was given this old patternmakers lathe by a friend.
What makes you think it's a patternmakers lathe? It looks to me to be a metal lathe.

2.What should I power it with?
A single phase motor of about 1/2 HP .75KW should be OK for it.

3. The original toolrest for handheld work is missing. Any ideas where I can get one from?
I can't see anywhere a toolrest would fit.

4. The cutting tool currently in the sliding tool holder looks like a metalworking thing. It looks like a metal lathe tool but with a groove just inside the cutting edge. Is this what was used for timber. Can’t seem to find any close up photos of what should be used.
A decent closeup shot of the main parts you're not sure of would help, as it could be a wood tip or could be metal?

5. Can this be used for non-ferrous metals. I know it won’t be particularly accurate, but could it be used for small brass or aluminium items.
It would be fine for any non ferrous metals. It could be quite accurate, as I think it's a metal lathe.

6. What is that large lever on the rhs used for. The one originating to the right of the outer headstock bearing, and pointing downwards such that it just protrudes over the drive belt lying on the ground?
At a guess, I'd say it's a banjo, there would have been other gears fitted to it. As I said in 4, decent pics would help greatly?

7. What is the gear on the extreme right for, the one on the end of the main body/shaft.
That gear would connect to other gears that run on the banjo, with out decent pics it's hard to say.

8. The headstock spindle would have had a faceplate on the outboard (ie extreme rhs in my photo), wouldn’t it ?
It's hard to say, more pics would help.

9. Is it normal to have a drill chuck on the tailstock. Is it there just because the last user was doing very thin things. Would it be more normal for these things to have a live centre?
It is normal to have a drill chuck fitted to the tailstock, used for drilling a hole in the centre of the turning.

I’ve never used a rack and pinion tool holder before.
Any chance of some pics of this detail please, never heard of a rack and pinion on the tool holder??
Kryn

[Arron]

Thanks very much for all the replies.

It certainly looks like the Drummond make. I’ll need to study further to see exactly which model tomorrow.

I thought it was a patternmakers lathe because that is what the last owner told me it was. I don’t know much about lathes other then basic, modern woodturning ones so just accepted that.

Looking at the pictures, it seems to be missing a few things, notably the gearing at the headstock end. Pity.

I’ll get more pictures tomorrow, and update my questions relevant to it being a metalwork lathe, not woodworking.

Cheers
Arron

[truckjohn]

You can probably make a simple tool rest to clamp into the compound.

Generally the problem with metal lathes is that they don't run fast enough. Most metal turning goes at much lower RPM's and much higher tool forces.... You will have to check the maximum rpm it will go with your selected motor/pulley combo....

I second the opinion - go back and get the original motor and drive pulleys.... You will need it and it likely will cost you a small fraction of what a new motor will cost.... It's still a good deal even if you end up buying a new motor....

Then make yourself a good guard to keep broken/thrown belt parts in and curious fingers/errant clothing/hair/jewelry out....

[Arron]

Looking at it more closely this morning.

It is a Drummond Type A, 4 inch round bed, just as DSel74 suggested.

Year of manufacture about 1914, identifying factor being the headstock bearings which are the early split brass types.

I now have the original manual and a couple of other publications.

That means I had it identified and dated within one hour of putting my post up - this website really is a triumph of practical people.

And btw

Reading the manual, there was an optional T rest for manual wood turning, which bolted onto the sliding rest. The manual states it can run fast enough for wood turning. The main use they are acknowledging is to make timber forms for casting.

The 5 or 6 gears on the outboard side of the headstock have been stripped off. These were used to turn the drive rod for the toolrest in sync with the headstock spindle when screw cutting, and also allowed reverse action. Most of these gears were mounted on the thing I identified as a ‘handle’, which was inverted.

It was probably originally powered with a treadle, but was early on converted to run on a motor. A factory supplied countershaft is mounted on a framework attached to the lathe, and has two speed cones, one for the flat belt and one for a v. I can’t tell if the mounting frame is factory or user made. So I’m missing a motor, which will have an ordinary v belt pulley. I have a one horsepower motor I can use.

It looks like it’s capable of acceptable accuracy. The manual shows model steam engines etc claimed to have been made completely on this model lathe.

I was pleased to have been given a patternmakers lathe, but much happier now I am told it’s actually a metal lathe. I’ve wanted one of those for years.

Cheers and thanks to all posters
Arron

[joe greiner]

... The manual states it can run fast enough for wood turning. The main use they are acknowledging is to make timber forms for casting.
Arron

That's the very definition of a patternmaker's lathe.

Cheers,
Joe

[Stewie D]

Whichever way you look at it, getting it for free is a pretty good deal! Good score.
The real cost though will be any tooling for doing metalwork on that lathe.

Stewie

[Arron]

Whichever way you look at it, getting it for free is a pretty good deal! Good score.
The real cost though will be any tooling for doing metalwork on that lathe.

Stewie
That’s something I know nothing about. What sort of basic kit is required ?

[DSEL74]

Tooling is very cheap actually. It is just bars of High Speed Steel (HSS). The trick is learning to grind it to the correct profiles.

[Paul39]

That’s something I know nothing about. What sort of basic kit is required ?



This online: http://www.campkahler.com/files/how_to_run_a_lathe_sb_1of2.pdf

Or: https://www.amazon.com/How-Run-Lathe-Operation-Cutting/dp/1614274746/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=92HSHEDMCEXH9ZQNTBA5

[Arron]

Very helpful.
Thanks Paul