good qualite chisels

[kats1719]

Hi guys i am looking to buy a good set of chisels. Somthing that will last a life time. that sort of qualite eney suggestions. In poticular bevel edge Can you please give a make and where to bye thanks

[Mirboo]

Hi kats1719,

Australian Wood Review did an article on chisels in Issue 44, September 2004. They reviewed 12 different chisels, nine western and three Japanese. Western types reviewed were Stanley, Record-Marples, Pfeil, Sorby (x3 - Gilt Edge, Boxwood Handle and Paring), Irwin-Marples, Kirschen Two Cherries and Stubai. The Japanese chisels reviewed were Iyoroi, Fujihiro and an ebony handled Japanese chisel from Carbatec. Lie-Nielsen chisels were not included in the initial review because they weren't yet available at that time. However, a follow-up article reviewing Lie-Nielsen chisels was included in Issue 45 of Australian Wood Review in December 2004. The Lie-Nielsen chisels were subjected to the same tests as the chisels in the initial article so that comparisons of performance could be made. The reviewer in the case of both articles was Robert Howard.

The first article, in Issue 44, reported that testing of the chisels led to the emergence of three broad groupings. At the bottom end where Pfeil and Record-Marples. In the middle were the other Western style chisels: Sorby, Stanley, Irwin-Marples, Kirschen and Stubai. And at the top were the Japanese chisels. In terms of value for money the Stubai was nominated by Robert Howard as the Western chisel of choice and the Iyoroi as its Japanese counterpart. If cost was not a consideration then the Stubai was still nominated as the Western chisel of choice but in terms of Japanese chisels this time the Fujihiro was chosen. Finally, Robert Howard stated that if cost was not a consideration and he could only have one of the sets of chisels reviewed then he would choose the Fujihiro.

The review of Lie-Nielsen chisels, in Issue 45, found that the Lie-Nielsen chisels outperformed all of the chisels included in the earlier review. Robert Howard summed up the results by making the following statement.

"They are expensive, but I for one will willingly pay the price for the sheer pleasure of owning and using them. They are that good."

The Lie-Nielsen chisels are available from Lie-Nielsen Australia (http://www.lie-nielsen.com.au/) or MIK International (http://www.mik.com.au/). Stubai chisels are available from MIK International (http://www.mik.com.au/) or The Wood Works Book and Tool Co (http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/). The Iyoroi chisels are availalbe from Carbatec (http://www.carbatec.com.au/). The magazine article states that the Fujihiro chisels were from Taka Nishiura??? I'm not sure who or where Taka Nishiura is so I did a search on the web and could only come up with overseas suppliers of the Fujihiro chisels such as Hida Tools (http://hidatool.com/).

The chisels I use myself are an old Sandvik and a few old Stanley's. One day though I would love to own a set of Lie-Nielsen's.

Regards,
Mirboo.

[Termite]

Pretty much covered by Mirboo. I have a set of 8 Wooden handled Stubai and am very pleased with them.

[kats1719]

Thanks for the great report Mirboo gives me somthing to think about

[derekcohen]

By reputation (since I do not have personal experience in using them), the LN and Barr chisels stand out for Western chisels. The Barr are sort-of Japanese-ish as well since their maker trained under a Japanese blade maker, and the chisels are laminated steels.

As far as my own bevel edged users go, I use Japanese and vintage Western (American Witherby and Swedish Berg) chisels. But one needs to be a collector at heart for the latter, although I suspect that the Witherbys are as durable as the A2 LN.

What I am saying is that you can put together chisels for a lifetime from the better vintage chisels on the secondhand market, but if you do not want to go down this road explore the LN and Barr. Either way you will have a super product.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Auld Bassoon]

Hi Kats,

For what it's worth as I'm still in a learning phase (and ever will be, methinks!), I have a nice set of Sorby bevel edged chisels and a set of (5) Lie Nielsens. The LNs are my chisel of choice for fine work: they take and hold a superb edge, are just wonderful to hold and use. They bring (and I mean this quite seriously) joy from their use.

Added to that is the simple fact that they are finished to a mirror polish for the whole of the steel. Sure, you can do that yourself with any chisel, but it's a lot of work (I know, I've done it with my Sorbys!).

At around AU$100 each, yes they are expensive, but I know that they will outlive me...

[DanP]

The Hirsch/Two Cherries seem to have all but disappeared from peoples reckoning now, where a year ago, they were the must have in quality western chisels. Why is it so?

[derekcohen]

The Hirsch/Two Cherries seem to have all but disappeared from peoples reckoning now, where a year ago, they were the must have in quality western chisels. Why is it so?

They remain good chisels - well, their steel is excellent. BUT they insist on polishing them, which looks good but rounds the edges. All this means added work in flattening the backs. You can get unpolished versions, and these would remain excellent purchases. Cheaper than the polished variety as well!

I think Craftsman Studio sell them: http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/index.htm

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Saxton]

http://barrtools.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BST&Product_Code=SO4CMC11311OLSISO&Category_Code=CMCS

Link to Barr chisels,worthy of a look pricey but then all quality tools are!!

Cheers:)

[ace911]

Auld Bassoon.

Check the L-N website.

The chisels are $ 79.00 ea a lot less than your "quoted" $100.00.

:D

[redwood]

if around 40 to 50 bucks was the limit per chisel what would you chiselers out there suggest? i to want to upgrade but so far 70 to 100 bucks per chisel seems recomended here:confused:

[kats1719]

Thanks for the great advice everyone. I think i will look at the LN chisles it is a bit more than i wanted to pay but if the quality it there i dont mind

[DanP]

Kats,

Look here - http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/L!5001501.htm

Two Cherries were considered the benchmark in recent times and the prices are not exhorbitant like the LN's (you can buy a 6pc set for what you get two LN's for)

Dan

[Wood Borer]

I have Stanley bevel and firmer, Robert Sorby bevel, LN bevel, LN mortise, a Barr 1" bevel, some old Henry Taylor, assorted old chisels - Titans etc.

What do I use?

Depends what I am doing. The Stanleys don't have the balance or good edges but they are used for risky (potential nails and inexperinced mates) chiselling.

The Robert Sorbys are great chisels but are heftier and heavier than the LN's so they are used where a bit of encouragement is needed.

The LN's are excellent for fine work like cutting dovetails and other delicate work. They are light and perfectly balanced and hold their edge very well. You can use them all day without tiring and only the occasional hone.

The Barr. This is a sturdy, well balanced chisel that holds it's edge as good as the LN's. I reckon you could whack this chisel with a sledge hammer and all it would do is cut deeper than if you had just tapped it with a mallet.

Horses for courses, Derek's suggestion of buying good old chisels and restoring them is a great option.

Dan's suggestion of the Two Cherries and Brother Termite's recommendation of the Stubai are also great suggestions as both these brands are worth buying.

The best chisel of all though is a sharp one so whatever you decode upon, make sure you do it justice by purchasing a good shapening system whether it be a machine or stones and then learn how to sharpen them properly.

Good Luck.

[redwood]

Kats,

Look here - http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/L!5001501.htm

Two Cherries were considered the benchmark in recent times and the prices are not exhorbitant like the LN's (you can buy a 6pc set for what you get two LN's for)

Dan

:D thanx dan. just what i was looking for. will order the special set of 6 today:D :D

[redwood]

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/L!5001501.htm is only for US orders only. dose anyone know if their is a Two Cherries mail order here in aust:confused:

[Mirboo]

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/L!5001501.htm (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/L%215001501.htm) is only for US orders only. dose anyone know if their is a Two Cherries mail order here in aust:confused:
The Woodworks Book and Tool Co (http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/) in Sydney sell Kirschen (Two Cherries) chisels. They do mail order.

Regards,
Mirboo.

[DanP]

Sorry 'bout that. Woodworks price is about AU$200, about what it would cost from the US inc post. Problem is, you can only get the polished set. I'll do some research.

Dan

[DanP]

Try this one. Don't know if they do international sales.

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php?cPath=39_92_338&products_id=1928

Dan

[DanP]

Forget that, they only ship to the US and Canada. Don't understand why...


Try this one. I KNOW that they post here. I'm not sure of the currency on their site though.

http://www.diefenbacher.com/Seasonal.htm#Special%20Two%20Cherries%20Chisel%20Sets

[Mirboo]

You can get Two Cherries chisels from Tools for Working Wood (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/) in the US. They ship internationally. I think they only sell the highly polished version though.

Regards,
Mirboo.

[Mirboo]

Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools (http://www.fine-tools.com/) in Germany sells the unpolished Two Cherries chisels. I have bought stuff from this guy before and was pleased with the service.

Regards,
Mirboo.

[stevebaby]

Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools (http://www.fine-tools.com/) in Germany sells the unpolished Two Cherries chisels. I have bought stuff from this guy before and was pleased with the service.

Regards,
Mirboo.Thanks for the link,it's excellent and the prices look pretty reasonable too.:)

[Two Cherries]

Hi .. the KIRSCHEN (Two Cherries) are now available from www.mytoolstore.com.au (http://www.mytoolstore.com.au) ... for really good prices.

He does not have them listed but I believe he can now source the KIRSCHEN - Two Cherries - 6-piece un-polished Chisel Set (Cat. 1166-HK)

Ta

[DanP]

Mytoolstore has the unpolished chisels on the site now for $179:

http://www.mytoolstore.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=63_64&products_id=377

Dan

[Two Cherries]

Hey,

KIRSCHEN (Two Cherries) is now available in AUSTRALIA at Rock Bottom Prices from www.mytoolstore.com.au (http://www.mytoolstore.com.au).

The guys at My Tool Store are still loading their site but they can get any / all carving tools plus the full range of Bench Chisels.

Cheers,

Ed

[derekcohen]

Hi Ed

Do you stock the unpolished bevel edge chisels?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[kats1719]

just because this thread came up again i ended up getting a set of L N bevel edge and mortise chisels

[soundman]

In all honesty I don't think you will find better chisels than second hand titans or bergs.

probablt titans for heavier stuff & bergs for lighter stuff.
The steel in both is beautifull and will often have lasted someone elses lifetime & will yours too.
If you don't mind some work and the hunt, you can get decent titans or bergs that need work for about $10 to $15 each, sometime less If the seller thinks its just some old rusty steel.
For nice ready to use I recon $25 to $30 each would be fair and still better value than most new chisels.

then you have old marples, spear & jacksons, ea bell...........all nice pieces of steel and available cheaply if you like the hunt.

cheers

[ian]

well Soundman, in the last week and a bit I've been fortunate enough to use chisels by Two Cherries, Lie Nielsen and a couple of old Berg's, on some white beech.

The Two Cherries were disappointing because the bevel stops a long way from the back of the blade. I have no complaint about their ability to hold an edge, but would like to regrind their bevels.

The 3/8" Berg was a beauty, with a bevel almost all the way to the back of the blade. A great chisel for paring, but in my opinion too slender for chopping.

The Lie Neilsen's have a steep bevel that extends closer to the back of the blade than does the Berg's bevel. At the 1/8" size I though the LN was stiffer and thus easier to use than the same size Berg. I like them for their performance when chopping, and they fit between dovetail pins, but I prefer the Berg for paring.

To date my impressions are:
for chopping, I reach for a Lie Neilsen
for paring I reach for a Berg


ian

[Bluegum]

I'm in favour with soundman hereas I have been collecting a few titans as I can find them. I ran them over an oil stone and started using them. I think they're about the best i have owned. I know a bloke up here who runs a tool stall at the local markets, he is always on the scrounge for me chasing titans. He charges me no more than $5 for them so I am collecting what he can get me.:)

[DanP]

Derek,

I emailed the store about the unpolished chisels. Reply hereunder:


Hi Dan

Yes we do the model No is 1166-HK and they cost $179.00 plus post $10.00.
I hope to have them up on the web in the next couple of days.
If want them before that you can just email me, we accept pay pal and direct
bank deposit.

Thanks Rob


Link to them on the site is:

http://www.mytoolstore.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=63_64&products_id=377

Dan

[derekcohen]

Dan, thanks for passing on the info about the unpolished Two Cherries. I am not in the market but others might be and they are the ONLY Two Cherries that I would buy. The alternative is the polished set, which has rounded edges, and then you have to undo the nice polishing!

Ian, thanks for that great, very helpful comparison of chisel types. I have not used the LN but, like others, have heard such praise. My concern about them is that their bevels are honed at 30 degrees which in my book makes them less of a paring chisel. In other words, what makes them distinctively different from my Japanese chisels, which are reserved for striking (and which probably hold an edge as well)? I have a set of Bergs for paring.

Regards from Perth

Derek (who is now spending weekends upgrading the workshop after buying a DC).

[W.Lill]

Soundman has spoken most eloquently of the virtues of Berg bevelled chisels. I am lucky enough to have a set of these and they are good.

If you want a set, there is currently a set on offer on ebay at the following link http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=006&item=160034235373&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[ian]

Derek
this weekend is a 3 dayer in NSW. So I'll try and get some photos comparing Bergs, Two Cherries and Lie Nielsen. I think dad has a couple of Wards and/or Titans and if so I'll include them in the photo.

ian

[soundman]

Ian I hope you come across a couple of titan registered firmers or socketed firmers....just fabulous for a good pounding.
cheers

[Ironwood]

Seeing all the discussion is going on about chisels at the moment, I thought I would compare some of my 3/4" mortice chisels today while I was chopping a hole in a piece of Cooktown Ironwood for a marking gauge. (this wood will test any tool)

starting from the top, I used a Titan (35 deg bevel), a Ward (35 deg bevel), a Palmtree Mawhood, (Sheffeild),(40 deg bevel, the longest in the picture) and I threw in a Greenlee bevel edged chisel (30 deg) because I hadnt used this one before.

All chisels started out sharp, honed on 6000 grit Japanese waterstone, its not a scientific test as the bevel angles arent all the same, but I didnt want to regrind.

31230

I used each chisel until I could feel the edge just start to deteriate using my fingernail to test.
The Greenlee Was the Quickest To deteriate (as to be expected), followed by the Ward, and then the Titan which lasted almost as long as the Palmtree Mawhood which had the 40 deg bevel.

All chisels were still able to cut cleanly at the end of the test, as I didnt push them too hard, they will only need a touch up on the waterstones.

So did I prove anything ?
Probably not anything conclusive, but it does show that the old Titans can hold their head up high.

[derekcohen]

Hi Ironwood

That's interesting. The results provides some useful data.

Firstly, however, a technical point, these are firmer chisels and not mortice chisels. Secondly, that they are not all the same type or bevel angle reduces the conclusions one can reach.

The third point is probably more pertinent to testing vintage steel - we just don't know who has used/abused them. Did the years of grinding draw the temper? How do we know if one chisel is representative of others?

Hell, we can't call any of this scientific, but it is fun.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ian]

Soundman,
I'll have to ask whether they're dad's and thus dating from the late 40s or if they belonged to my grandfather or great grandfather, which would push the potential date back to the late 1800s

ian

[soundman]

I don't know about the others but the titan will be post war AFAIK.

cheers

[Ironwood]

Hell, we can't call any of this scientific, but it is fun.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, I agree with your points, I knew before I started that this wouldnt prove much, except to mainly give me an idea which of my chisels I like to work with for different tasks.

The Palmtree Mawhood was a bit big for this job, but its got such a solid feel to it when you hit it with the hammer, I'm sure it would be great for bigger jobs.

Firmer chisels, yes I should have known better, Ive read about the differences somewhere.
And yes it is Fun.

[Two Cherries]

I know that this is an old Thread but check out .....

www.mytoolstore.com.au (http://www.mytoolstore.com.au)

This Online Store has now become a major distributor for Two Cherries Chisels and he is listing more and more products all the time. He has the Unpolished Bench Chisel Sets ... as well as the latest 2-Component Handle Chisel ...

All at extremely Cheap pricing.

Cheers, Ed