inside out turning

[ss_11000]

hi all

i want to know about inside out turning,

how to hold the pieces on the lathe etc

also how many of you have tried it and those who have can you post some pics


ps done a search and found a thread but links on it didn't work

[macca2]

I have tried this, only as an experiment and it works OK.
Start with 4 pieces of timber that are exactly the same size and dressed all round.
Glue them together into a block of 4 with paper in between so you can split them apart later.
Mount them between centres and turn to desired shape.
Split the 4 pieces apart with a chisel or similar being careful to keep them in the same order. I numbered them before starting out.
Turn each piece 180 degrees and then glue again, but this time permanently.
Turn outside to shape. As you progress the inner turnings should start to show thru.
This is a very short version of "how to" and if I can find any more info I will post it.

Cheers Macca:) :)

PS. I have posted a pic of a couple of my tries

[macca2]

Just a couple of sites I found. Might be helpful.

Cheers Macca

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~pwguild/p-in-out.htm
http://gulfcoastwoodturners.org/RESOURCES/Hollow%20Ornaments%20-%20Inside-Out.pdf
http://www.crwoodturner.com/ornaments/ornaments.pdf

[ss_11000]

thanx macca.

look like good sites, will have a proper look through em later

[arose62]

I read a couple of articles on this, and I don't think the "how" of holding the pieces together is critical (aprt from actually holding them, of course).

Apart from gluing with a paper layer to split, I also read of duct-taping the pieces together, and using a jubilee clip (hose clamp to us aussies).

Cheers,
Andrew

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

When I first heard of it I couldn't wait for glue to dry and just hose-clamped some pieces together. I wasn't too happy with the result, as I was using four 1" square x 18" long (approx) blanks and they bowed outwards from each other under spin.

Next time I glued things... and was more than pleased with the result.

[ziggles]

:D Just checked out those websites. excellent and the the victorian on has great ideas

ziggles:)

[TTIT]

Interesting:D! Will have to have a play at this!

[Gil Jones]

These inside out vases are rather easy to make, and are good for gifts too.

[ss_11000]

These inside out vases are rather easy to make, and are good for gifts too.
that looks awsome, greenie launched

[ptc]

Gil.
any chance of step by step details ?
would like to try that.

[Gil Jones]

Thanks, they are easy to make, but the basic design idea needs to be credited to Ken Grunke, as his work gave me the idea to make some.
What does "Greenie Launched" mean?

PTC, I am in the middle of prepairing my taxes, and my Son's. I will work up how I made them, and post it in a couple days.

[ss_11000]

What does "Greenie Launched" mean?

.

green rep point thingy ( those things under your avatar) is coming your way... check your user cp

[Gil Jones]

Thanks Stirlo, I had no idea what those green things were for.
Here is another "Inside-out Petal Vase", this one is White Oak.

[Gil Jones]

PTC, here are the inside out vase directions. Hope they are clear enough for y'all.:)

[ss_11000]

PTC, here are the inside out vase directions. Hope they are clear enough for y'all.:)

they're good instructions gil,but it raised a question for me,: is a scroll chuck the only way to hold the four pieces (not just for vases) or is there another way

[ptc]

Gil
Thank you.

[Gil Jones]

Stirlo,
I have not used any other methods, though I suppose Stage 1 could be done with Stebb drive and live centers. The tailstock end could be secured with a cup live center (with the point removed). If, in Stage 1, you turn a straight walled spigot at the base (and if you allowed extra waste wood at the base), and then turned a tight jam chuck on a faceplate to hold the base spigot. Many "ifs" here, but I imagine it would work OK, just more time consuming.

[ss_11000]

Stirlo,
I have not used any other methods, though I suppose Stage 1 could be done with Stebb drive and live centers. The tailstock end could be secured with a cup live center (with the point removed). If, in Stage 1, you turn a straight walled spigot at the base (and if you allowed extra waste wood at the base), and then turned a tight jam chuck on a faceplate to hold the base spigot. Many "ifs" here, but I imagine it would work OK, just more time consuming.

sounds easier to use a scroll chuck....seeing as though i dont have one, who can tell me how much they cost, also a pic cos i've actually never heard of them ( thats y i asked for other methods )

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You only doing spindle-turning? Have a look at Jim Carroll's chucks:
http://cws-store.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107144813

Call it about $150 at the cheapest (inc. P&H)... you can get chaiwanese muck for a lot cheaper but they really aren't worth the hassle.

[ss_11000]

You only doing spindle-turning? Have a look at Jim Carroll's chucks:
http://cws-store.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107144813

Call it about $150 at the cheapest (inc. P&H)... you can get chaiwanese muck for a lot cheaper but they really aren't worth the hassle.


is the nova g3 the cheapest one ($170)

[DanP]

Stirlo,

If you only plan on doing small spindles and bowls, the G3 is the go. However, I would get the Supernova 2 if you plan to do anything bigger. If funds are an issue, get the G3 now, then the Supernova 2 later.

Dan

[ss_11000]

Stirlo,

If you only plan on doing small spindles and bowls, the G3 is the go. However, I would get the Supernova 2 if you plan to do anything bigger. If funds are an issue, get the G3 now, then the Supernova 2 later.

Dan

small spindles- is that goblets and stuff

i'm only planning on bowls and goblets and stuff so when i save up enuf the g3 seems the one to get. thanks dan and everyone else for the advice

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Stirlo, the Precision Midi is also a scroll chuck. It just doesn't use a hex-0key to lock, it uses a pair of pry-bars. 'Tis the cheapest of the lot (about $100 odd) but is still a damned good chuck. I've two of 'em, as well as a SuperNova2.


Which you pick also depends on your lathe...

IMHO the SNova2 is up there with the best of the best but is fairly heavy and you need a good, beefy headstock & bearings. Fine for an MC-900 or better but if you've only got a mini-lathe (a small Jet or Leda) or a cheap'n'flimsy lathe then it'll eventually chew out the bearings.

For the latter I'd recommend the G3 or Precision Midi. They take exactly the same jaws as the SNova2 except for the heaviest ones, such as the power-grips.

[ss_11000]

Stirlo, the Precision Midi is also a scroll chuck. It just doesn't use a hex-0key to lock, it uses a pair of pry-bars. 'Tis the cheapest of the lot (about $100 odd) but is still a damned good chuck. I've two of 'em, as well as a SuperNova2.


Which you pick also depends on your lathe...

IMHO the SNova2 is up there with the best of the best but is fairly heavy and you need a good, beefy headstock & bearings. Fine for an MC-900 or better but if you've only got a mini-lathe (a small Jet or Leda) or a cheap'n'flimsy lathe then it'll eventually chew out the bearings.

For the latter I'd recommend the G3 or Precision Midi. They take exactly the same jaws as the SNova2 except for the heaviest ones, such as the power-grips.

skew, i've got an mc900. also whats the dif between the type of lock on the chucks


cheers

ps i've been wondering for a while and now i've got to ask: wat does IMHO mean?

[Wood Butcher]

IMHO - In My Honest Opinion ;)

[ss_11000]

thanx

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

skew, i've got an mc900. also whats the dif between the type of lock on the chucks

Basically, with the kex-key you only need one hand to operate it, so you can hold the blank in place with the other hand while tight/loosening. These chucks tend have more complex innards and can be awkward to strip/rebuild if necessary.

The other type uses a couple of levers, so are generally considered for "two-handed" use but with a bit of practice you soon become used to using one hand when you need to. The Precision Midi chuck has nice, simple innards, basic but durable and easy to work on.

Don't worry 'bout the innards bit, that's of more concern to those of us who like to pull clocks apart to see how they work. :rolleyes: So long as you blow out the dust and lube the chuck regularly you'll probably never need to strip one down. Teknatools chucks are good stuff. ;)

[Gil Jones]

Stirlo,
Here is a link to a site where you can find out what all of those "acronyms" mean (like: IMHO). Some of them are not very nice.
http://www.acronymfinder.com

[Hickory]

PTC, here are the inside out vase directions. Hope they are clear enough for y'all.:)

Went to the attached file you provided. Informative pieces of info there. I tried it and was successful but not to the full extent of my pleasure.

There needs to be more emphisis on the "square" and all the same dimension (Exactly the same) As well Centered "Exactly " in the chuck.

All I have is a 4 jaw independent chuck so this is a problem for me. But I also used pieces from two different stock and not sure if they were exactly the same.

I tried a variation of your design, I was making a Pineapple and hoped to use the technique for the top folage. Due to my inaccurate prep work, the results were one Large leaf, two correct sized leaves, & One small leaf.

Aside from the concentric leaves, it looks pretty good. I will try again and make sure to to be more precise in my prep of the wood.

Thanks for the technique and thank the originator "Ken Grunke" as well.
A learning experience that I will continue to perfect on my skills. Thanks again for the posting.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

There needs to be more emphisis on the "square" and all the same dimension (Exactly the same) As well Centered "Exactly " in the chuck.

All I have is a 4 jaw independent chuck so this is a problem for me. But I also used pieces from two different stock and not sure if they were exactly the same.

The indep. jaw chuck is far from the best choice for this sort of thing, but one can only use what they've got, no?

Once you get the basics of inverted turning under control, you'll find that the timbers don't have to be exactly square, although they do have to be "squared" and each piece having exactly the same dimensions. ie. rectangular. I've occasionally run a stud through the jointer & thicknesser, then just quartered it up.

The trick is to glue it up so the ends are in a "windmill" pattern... this'll give an asymmetric look when seperated and re-turned, sorta like a propellor. :) The degree of asymmetricity is determined by just how rectangular the blanks started.

[Hickory]

Right is you are, Skew. I need to spend more time on the details. The pieces will fall into place if I make sure the center of the four confluences is in the center of the piece. The independent jaws will allow me to make up the difference, which I should have attended to at the onset. Like I said before, It was a good learning practice , LOML still liked the piece even If I wasn't proud. The next piece will be of my pleasure as I will attend to the short comings sense I can now see how their minuteness is of importance. I'll call the first a "Prototype". Off schedule here as I have ventured into making boxes for a while. My small brain can't do two at once so I drift from thought to conception and back again.

First day of Spring brought 6" of snow to my already ready for warm weather self so I am bewildered and confused.

[Gil Jones]

Macca2,
I like the inside out pieces that you created!
Nice shapes. Have you ever turned a finial for the top?
Seems like they might look good that way too

[ss_11000]

hey guys
i'm half way thru my first inside out turning:U ...its not a vase ( thats next time ) and i'm not quite sure what it is but hopefully it will look cool.:B....

pictures when i'm done.

cheers

[Mobil Man]

Try "Grizzly.com" & in search put H6267. Lower down the page it asks you to go to page #121. Click on that & the whole selection well come up. I've got one of these & can't see where a Nova could be better. It also has indexing capabilities on the chuck. I've got the 1495 Grizzly lathe I use it on. Great chuck & very smooth. Also check out their turning tools & live centers They have quality stuff at very good prices.:2tsup:

[ss_11000]

mmm. well the experiment didnt work, and lets just say it was very lucky i was wearing safety glasses.
it was my first bit to fly out of the chuck ( and in 3 different peices ). the vase hasnt gone ahead yet...

cheers

[lubbing5cherubs]

Don't feel bad Stirlo. Mine had the same end. :- :D
Toni

[Tornatus]

PTC, here are the inside out vase directions. Hope they are clear enough for y'all.:)

I have come in late to this thread, Gil, but just wanted to say thanks for posting those instructions - I have wanted to try this technique for some time, so your offering is much appreciated.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

mmm. well the experiment didnt work, and lets just say it was very lucky i was wearing safety glasses.
it was my first bit to fly out of the chuck ( and in 3 different peices ). the vase hasnt gone ahead yet...

Did you follow those instructions? I just read 'em for the first time and it is NOT how I do it. Only glue the first 10mm? :oo: Ptui! No wonder it seperated on ya!

Personally I glue the whole length (don't forget the brown paper!) and when it comes time to seperate I simly use a workshop knife as a wedge and tap it down the joint with a hammer to seperate. The brown paper makes it seperate neatly and easily. And being glued the whole length, there's a LOT less chance of movement while turning or UFOs flying across the shed! :wink:

[BernieP]

G'Day Stirlo

A site you may enjoy reading http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/Articles/Making%20an%20Inside%20Out%20Woodturning.pdf (http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/Articles/Making%20an%20Inside%20Out%20Woodturning.pdf) I must admit I haven't tried it yet!

Cheers
Bernie

[lubbing5cherubs]

Did you follow those instructions? I just read 'em for the first time and it is NOT how I do it. Only glue the first 10mm? :oo: Ptui! No wonder it seperated on ya!

Personally I glue the whole length (don't forget the brown paper!) and when it comes time to seperate I simly use a workshop knife as a wedge and tap it down the joint with a hammer to seperate. The brown paper makes it seperate neatly and easily. And being glued the whole length, there's a LOT less chance of movement while turning or UFOs flying across the shed! :wink:

do you glue both side of the paper?:?
Toni

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

do you glue both side of the paper?:?

Yep. Spread the glue on one piece of wood, stick the paper down, more glue on another piece and then clamp 'em together.

I do it in two stages... glue two twice-the-length-I-want lengths together, then when the glue is dry flatten one side, cut it in half and glue it back together (with more brown paper) to make the final blank.

If you're no good at flattening a side or haven't the tools, it's probably easier to just glue all four pieces together at the same time. :shrug:

[Gil Jones]

I only glue the first 10 to 13mm (1/2") of one end and no paper(the end in the tail stock live center). The chuck jaws will hold the other end together. In this instance, I use a live center that is a cup and point (and I remove the point), thus, the cup ring digs into the wood a bit, and holds it together just fine (unless you get to aggressive cutting, and/or get a catch). Mine have never [yet] separated.
If you are not using a scroll chuck, and are turning this thing between centers, then I reckon one of those Sorby (or a knockoff brand) Steb Drive Centers and a cup live center would do you okay if not too aggressive. If just between centers, I agree with Skew about full-length gluing, and brown paper.

[ss_11000]

hey skew.

i used Ca along the whole blank. i think the reason it separated is, either a slightly too aggressive cut and/or a catch on the bit of the blank about 1.5mm out of square.

[Gil Jones]

Stirlo, PVA (Polyvinyl acetate or "white glue", and the yellow "carpenter's glue") is a better choice, more flexible, and less costly too. CA is rather brittle.

[ss_11000]

thanx gil. on my next go, i'll try the pva.

gil, if it isnt a hassle, could i get a pic of one of your vases looking into it from the top.

cheers

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

i used Ca along the whole blank.

:oo:

What Gil said!

[ss_11000]

:oo: i didnt know it would be that bad for it:- .

i take it that cheap pva glue wont do, i 'll have to get some good stuff. what brand would you use???titebond??

cheers

[Gil Jones]

Yup, Titebond is a fine choice, I use the original Titebond.
I will post a pic down the throat of the White Oak one for you in the morning (my morning, 9 hours from now). I gave the Mahogany one to my Mum, but I just found a pic sorta from the top of it. Maybe this pic will give you a look inside for now.

[Mobil Man]

To see inside/outside done on video Go to Marleyturned.com. Very interesting. I turned the "inside" last night held together with strapping tape pulled tightly around the block. Worked like a champ. Turn betwen centers.

[Gil Jones]

Stirlo,
The left pic is from the top of the White Oak vase (but the color is too red). The hole is 6.35mm (1/4"). This is my first one, and the hole is 'drilled' out to 1/4" because I did not make it large enough while turning. The right pic is a side view, and is the true color.

[ss_11000]

thanx gil.

am i right in thinking the legnth of the petals determine the depth?

cheers

[Gil Jones]

Not sure I follow that question, Stirlo. The 1/4" hole in the White Oak vase (for weeds or dry flowers) 'starts' at the base of the petals, and goes down as far as you wish, but preferably not through the bottom of the vase.

[ss_11000]

Not sure I follow that question, Stirlo. The 1/4" hole in the White Oak vase (for weeds or dry flowers) 'starts' at the base of the petals, and goes down as far as you wish, but preferably not through the bottom of the vase.
ah , i get it now:- ...the pic made it clear:)

thanx again gil:)

[Gil Jones]

No worries, Stirlo, go create one.:)

[ss_11000]

Stirlo, go create one.:)

will do (as soon as i get some glue ) i'll try tommorrow or next week sometime....oh and i dont know if i got 4 peices of identically dressed wood of the same type so i'll try to get that next week to.

[Gil Jones]

They do not need to be the same species of wood; might even look good with different kinds, rather like segmented work.:) Good practice either way.