Which Grinder

[dazzler]

Hey,

Please help me spend up to $200 on a grinder to sharpen ma cheesels!:confused:

6" or 8", white or grey, water thingy or what?

thanks;)

dazzler

[Gil Jones]

8", white or pink, slow speed (1750rpm).
I suppose the water ones are good too (?), but they are a lot more than $200.

[jaspr]

Carbatec have a nice 8" 1450 rpm grinder with one white and one grey wheel for $165

jas

[CameronPotter]

If you can find it, spend more money and buy a (good) belt sander.

You can see one at my place if you like. I have one and much prefer it to a grinder (which is funny cause no one else seems to mention them as an alternative).

PM me if you want to see my (tiny) shed.

Cam

[Mirboo]

If you can find it, spend more money and buy a (good) belt sander.

You can see one at my place if you like. I have one and much prefer it to a grinder (which is funny cause no one else seems to mention them as an alternative).

PM me if you want to see my (tiny) shed.

Cam
Belt sanders have had a fair bit of discussion on this forum in terms of them being an alternative to a grinder for sharpening purposes. Here are a couple of threads on the topic started by Derek Cohen.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=14908
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16156

Regards,
Mirboo.

[CameronPotter]

Well! There you go...

I guess I was more meaning in books or other "official" sources.

However, I stand corrected.

Cheers

Cam

[Zed]

i reckon 8 inch white soft wheel - does it for me. I have one that has a brass wire brush and cloth wheel on the outsides of the stione wheels from total tools no name with a carbatec sharpening stand bolter to it. works well, no wuckers.

fancy shmancy....!!! pah~!:D

[graemecarson]

I saw an 8 inch bench grinder last night in of all places, Supercheap Auto.
Reduced from $70 bucks down to $50 bucks until 14th April. Wheels on it are no good but thought it might look real good with a white wheel and a blue (heligrind maker's) wheel on it. Was the only grinder I've seen that had a 45mm wide gap between the spark guards. Most- GMC, Ryobi, Jet etc seem to have to be modified to fit a 40mm wheel on if you want to use the spark guards for safety. No frills like lights etc, but wheels ran real freely when spun so seems OK especially for the price.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Given that the query was posted in a "woodturning" forum, I'd say a 6" grinder with a good Aluminium Oxide (white) wheel is all that's needed. 8" is nice, it can be used for so many other things but for just sharpening turning chisels? A 6" white wheel. With the savings, buy a good sharpening jig. Or better still, learn to sharpen freehand on a cheap set of tools and put the money towards some P&N, Sorby or other nice chisels.

Don't bother with wet wheels... for turning they're a waste. Your chisels'll blunten just as quickly although you may get an extra 30 seconds in which they're sharper than off a white wheel. Big whoopee. :rolleyes:

It's a completely different thing to sharpening hand-plane and other, non-turning chisels (firmers, etc).

[aussiecolector]

I got a gmc 6" grinder with 8" wet stone the other end for $99. It is good for blades and knives etc.

[Groggy]

I recommend an O**t*. It is very quiet under the water and it stops the tinny from drifting. :p

Given the chance, Abbott & Ashby make a really nice grinder. Anything from Baldor is good. White or pink wheel - or, get a cheaper grinder and install a grinding belt like the multi tool.

Or, for bottom feeders, turn your belt sander upside down and clamp it (carefully) in a vise.

[RETIRED]

Given that the query was posted in a "woodturning" forum, I'd say a 6" grinder with a good Aluminium Oxide (white) wheel is all that's needed. 8" is nice, it can be used for so many other things but for just sharpening turning chisels? A 6" white wheel. With the savings, buy a good sharpening jig. Or better still, learn to sharpen freehand on a cheap set of tools and put the money towards some P&N, Sorby or other nice chisels.

Don't bother with wet wheels... for turning they're a waste. Your chisels'll blunten just as quickly although you may get an extra 30 seconds in which they're sharper than off a white wheel. Big whoopee. :rolleyes:

It's a completely different thing to sharpening hand-plane and other, non-turning chisels (firmers, etc).Second that.

[ss_11000]

[quote=Skew ChiDAMN!!]Given that the query was posted in a "woodturning" forum, I'd say a 6" grinder with a good Aluminium Oxide (white) wheel is all that's needed. 8" is nice, [quote]

today at bunnies i saw a bench grinder with a white wheel at the back and a smaller black one at the side for around $170 ( i think ), dont remember what brand but it looked good.

[Groggy]

...dont remember what brand but it looked good...This is how most of us get 'burnt' early on - it looks good! The grinder type that you describe generally have plastic gearing in the 90 deg gearbox. When you apply some pressure to the grey wheel it doesn't take too long to find out why plastic is not a preferred component. Delta also made a similar machine, and the word of most owners was that it was good anode for electrolysis when restoring planes.

[Wood worrier]

A cheap grinder will do fine but make sure it has a standard shaft size, then throw away the nasty carborundum wheels supplied and buy 1 or 2 good quality, balanced, pink or ceramic (blue) wheels. If you can justify the expence a Tormek wet grinder works very well (but you still need a high speed unit fore reshaping).

[CameronPotter]

Showed Dazz, my multitool/grinder set up and I think he might be sold... :D

I wish there was some kind of commission for people not at all associated with the business...;) Damn! :o

Cam

[rsser]

If you can find it, spend more money and buy a (good) belt sander.

You can see one at my place if you like. I have one and much prefer it to a grinder (which is funny cause no one else seems to mention them as an alternative).

PM me if you want to see my (tiny) shed.

Cam

One of Darlow's intro books makes a plug for the kind of belt sander you attach to a grinder in place of the wheel.

I get by fine with an 8" Abbot and Ashby with one white and one pink wheel. Scrapers I touch up with a diamond hone. Ditto the flutes of cheaper gouges like the P&Ns ... remembering that an edge is made by the intersection of two planes.

[black1]

timbecon had a 8" or is that 200mm grinder in there store the other day for under 100 buck.
yep i like the belt sander for normal chisels as well. dont know about turning chisel though as dont hae any. also use the "scary sharpe method" for sharpening my stanley chisels (normal?) bloody works too:cool:

[JDarvall]

I'd go the white aluminium oxide wheels. 8". But I wouldn't go for a slow grinder, personally. I don't think thats necessary. Sometimes, I feel they turn too slow.

A middle range grinders fine I think. Just make sure you get a dressing stick of some form. 'T' bars apparently are good. I use a diamond stick off a tool rest.

[Ashore]

Personally I'm waiting for the triton wet grinder, will check it out before I get a new one

[Farm boy]

what is the difference between pink,white,blue and grey wheels?
do they do different things

[JDarvall]

what is the difference between pink,white,blue and grey wheels?
do they do different things

Can't give you anything scientific. ....but from what I've read the colour of the wheel gives you a clue of the wheels composition, but thats about it.

But on every wheel theres a string of characters that identify it...An example from the book I've got in front of me....

25A 120 H 8 V BE.....<- if that was written on the stone.

The A means -> Aluminium oxide. ...Which tend to be white or pink wheels. Aluminium oxide wheels are good for woodworking cause the bond is weaker, so as the grit wears it falls of exposing new sharp grit. Grey wheels have a harder bond, so they tend to glaze over more. You'll notice that happening when all you get from your wheel is a heat buildup, with less actual grinding taking place....thats when you gota dress it. The grey wheels normally come as standard with a new grinder.

The 120 means the grit size. you want about 80 - 120 grit for woodworking tools....

The rest of those characters, I don't see the point in knowing the reason behind them quite frankly.

But, I think you'd find if you go to a woodworking supplier looking for a white wheel, it'll be just the one your after....ie. ...Aluminium oxide about 120 grit.

Even though they renew themselves naturally, they will need redressing in my opinion. So, I'd just buy an average sized 8" grinder (not small, or they'll moan under pressure), a new aluminium oxide white wheel, and a dressing tool........ and go for it.

Most important thing in grinding, IMO, is to monitor heat. Just means, keep your fingers close to the blade edge, and just pull back when it gets too hot. Fingers burn before blade looses its temper you see.....simple.

[Farm boy]

thanks for that jake

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

...and don't use white or pink AlOxide wheels for sharpening Tungsten Carbide bits unless you really don't like that wheel. :D

For TC you need a different wheel altogeher. Silicon Carbide, I think, usually blue or green.

[Evan Pavlidis]

One of Darlow's intro books makes a plug for the kind of belt sander you attach to a grinder in place of the wheel.

I get by fine with an 8" Abbot and Ashby with one white and one pink wheel. Scrapers I touch up with a diamond hone. Ditto the flutes of cheaper gouges like the P&Ns ... remembering that an edge is made by the intersection of two planes.


Gooday Ern,

do you sharpen your gouges on the Abbot and Ashby freehand or with a jig. If you use a jig which one. I've been using a Tormek for a while and the wheel needs dressing quite often due to the undulations left by the gouges and the diameter is being reduced significantly. Those 8" wheels are $230; ouch!!!! I intend to purchase an Abbot & Ashby but not sure about the jig.
Please advise.

P.S. I noticed the Tormek is not the ideal grinder for turning tools; you don't get a good edge; well you do get one but it won't last as long as a grind from a conventional grinder. I am using Sorby, Henry Taylor and Record turning tools.
In future I'll use the Tormek for plane blades and standard woodworking chisels.

Regards, Evan

[JDarvall]

thanks for that jake

no problem. :)

[CHJ]

Dazzler, if you read between the advertising blurb you might find info.HERE (http://www.peterchild.co.uk/grind/blue.htm) useful.

As has been said before you do not need an expensive machine and I personally would not use a wet grinder like the Tormek for HSS turning tools. My cheap and cheerful setup can be seen Here. (http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5360)

[JDarvall]

...and don't use white or pink AlOxide wheels for sharpening Tungsten Carbide bits unless you really don't like that wheel. :D

For TC you need a different wheel altogeher. Silicon Carbide, I think, usually blue or green.

YES !!! thats right....forgot about mentioning that. Not that I've had much experience grinding them.....what sort of Tungsten Carbide tools do you feel confident enough about sharpening off the grinder, Skew ?....turning tools ?..... Can anybody grind router bits off the wheel well enough ?...Thats something that beyond me.

[Wood worrier]

Whell colours denote the composition and material used to manufacture the wheels, essentially the colur denotes the 'sharpness' of the wheel and thus its tendency to heat the tool being ground. Most wheels are made of aluminuium oxide (white), some have adatives such as chromium (which makes them pink), the basic grey grinder wheel is carborundum. The other types are the microcrystaline ceramics (blue) and these are the sharpest (coolest cutting) of all. All come in various grit sizes, coarse for reshaping, fine for sharpening. If you look at this link http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/wheelinfo.htm the author explans it far better than I can.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

YES !!! thats right....forgot about mentioning that. Not that I've had much experience grinding them.....what sort of Tungsten Carbide tools do you feel confident enough about sharpening off the grinder, Skew ?....turning tools ?..... Can anybody grind router bits off the wheel well enough ?...Thats something that beyond me.

Turning tools? I've no idea whether there is such a beast. I was thinking about a mate of mine who wanted to make a jig for sharpening router bits. Now, I wouldn't say he's short a top paddock, but the fence line definitely meanders around. :rolleyes: Still, he has come up with some damned good ideas in the past.

Anyways, a bit of research convinced both of us it wasn't worth the effort this time.

[Lance Stunning]

I hope you in Oz don't have a chinese VS grinder being sold in the States. I returned mine because changing the wheels requires having to retrue the wheels. Not by a little, a whole bunch! I use Norton SG wheels that are not cheap. I ground off 1/4" in one weekend alone. It seems the collars supplied are too flimsy and the shaft detents too small. You may find a lot of tool "bounce" when sharpening. When I did true the wheels, the grinder worked as advertised. But, returning the next day, the wheels needed to be trued again! It seems the grinder sort of changes shape when warm to cooling down.
Another annoying characteristic is the VS control. You will hear it accelerating and coasting when set at slower speeds. It goes away when full power is supplied. A minor point, but when I'm turning on a lathe, the grinder is on for hours at a time.
The grinder has a nice feature, vibration. The tools on the wall were dancing like hula babes in Hawaii. If you use balanced wheel flanges, they won't fit the guards. Lastly, it is way underpowered for a tool of this size. Forget trying to shape any type of steel, even with the 36 grit wheel. The machine does not have enough torque.
When introduced, this grinder was retailing for 199.00. When I bought mine, I paid 119.00. Tool supply companies are "giving" it away at 99.00. This is below original wholesale. There is a reason for discounted pricing.
Delta customer service was very helpful to make sure I had followed their setup procedures. They admitted the grinder is for the "hobbyist" who basically needs to sharpen lawn mower blades etc. FWIW

[hughie]

Hi Lance,
Sounds like you have what we call "a boat anchor". Tie a rope to it, throw it over the side and go fishing.:D
I am using a 40 year old Atlas Tool Co out of Michigan grinder with a grey or blue general purpose wheel about 80grit of about the same age . It ain't real fast for steel removal, but it works. When it finally give up the ghost will be buy one of those new fangled white wheels :D

Maybe if you get some new inserts it will improve some what at least till you organize for a better one.
hughie

[martrix]

Anyone have one of these Viking Whetstone Grinder KC 250 (http://www.timbecon.com.au/details/viking-whetstone-grinder-9996.aspx)
What would the small 60 grit wheel be useful for?

[Groggy]

Anyone have one of these Viking Whetstone Grinder KC 250 (http://www.timbecon.com.au/details/viking-whetstone-grinder-9996.aspx)
What would the small 60 grit wheel be useful for?I've used one a few times. They have plastic gears that break regularly if you apply pressure. Not very good for a tool that needs pressure applied to it. On the bright side, they do have spares available.

[woden]

I thought I'd revive this thread as I'm in the throws of deciding upon which mechanised method of sharpening to go for: in actual fact shaping would be a better description as I hone with the scary sharp method and plan to improve this with waterstones. So it's really mechanised shaping that I'm after and it's a toss up between a belt sander or grinder.

I'm not a turner and so don't have any HSS to sharpen just high carbon chisels and plane irons. The path to getting a good belt sander has become a bit rocky as a good one in this part of the world seems to be just too expensive. Unfortunately we don't have Carba-tec and their moderately priced cast iron version, but that's another story. I'm now giving more focus to bench grinders and am nearly overwhelmed by the shear variety of choice.

I think I've discounted the slow wet grinders as from what I've read these seem to be too slow for reshaping when changing bevel angles or removing nicks. Then there's the high speed dry ginders which go at about 3000rpm and these scare me a bit - I'm kinda impatient and I worry that I'll not be able to resist the temptation to push a blade in too hard or keep it there too long resulting in a burnt edge. There seems to be a lot of talk about how it's easily done - this has put doubts in my novice's mind.

Anyway, today I discovered that there's a sort of in between grinder running at 1500rpm. Aparently these are specifically aimed at woodworkers - fast enough for reshaping edges but that bit slower giving you more leeway before burning an edge. Are they any good? Here's (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=460432&name=grinder&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0) one that Axminster - seemingly the UK's version of Carba-tec - does at a price mind. Just did a conversion and &#163;83 comes out at AUS$207 - not cheap!

Besides the price, another drawback is that it can only take 25mm wide wheels and not the 40mm ones I've seen on some grinders. Is this a major failing or is 25mm adequate for grinding even wide plane blades? Maybe there's a way to safely modify a grinder to take a wider wheel but this probably involves lots of engineering type fettling and would most likely be beyond me. Hmmm... anyway, I could do with some advice.

Ps. is that blue crystaline... thingy wheel much better than a white aluminium oxide when it comes to avoiding burnt edges?

[rodent]

its almost the same one as carbatecs . 1 inch is fine ive even used a 20mm 3/4 inch for the non metric but 1inch + is better go for it looks good.

[woden]

So 25mm is fine then. What about the grit of the wheel - which is best for bench chisels and plane irons? I realise a white aluminium oxide wheel is the thing to go for but is the coarsest grit the best for avoiding a burnt edge when taking out nicks, etc? I wonder can you get 60g white wheels or would this be too coarse?


its almost the same one as carbatecs I noticed that some of the belt sanders are very similar too. Maybe Axminster and Carbatec are linked or one's copying the other. In fact, I've just remembered that I saw an Axminster sander for sale on Carbatec's site.

[rsser]

60 grit is fine for turning tools; can't speak for planes. A lower grit will actually run cooler and so reduce microscopic damage to the steel but it will leave a rougher edge and so give a rougher finish.

[woden]

I'm not too concerned with how rough the finish would be off the grinder as it would only be a shaping device for my bench tools. The final edge would come through honing on wet/dry and eventually water stones. What I'm after is a fast method of removing steel with minimal risk of heat build up and burnt edges. Can you get Alox white wheels lower than 60 grit?

[rsser]

Yes you can. Think I've seen 48s.

And if you can find a specialist supplier you can also get different bond strengths. Softer bonds mean the crystals wear away quicker and that reduces the heat build up in the tool.

Here's some reading:

http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/sharpen.pdf
http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/wheelinfo.htm
..

[simso]

Realistically for sharpening chisels you could use anything. I have a professional wet wheel with jigs for grinding tools in the shed and it is fantastic and dead accurate but the price doesnt justify the item, also it can make them to sharp. I also have a linisher attachment on my bench grinder "belt sander" and I would not recommend the use of these as you will get a bit of curvature to the blade because the belts are tightened through pressure on a rubber wheel which ends up lifting the outer edge of the belt slightly. If you dont believe me take one and sharpen it then place it on a flat plate and resand watch the edges flatten down and not the centre. The best and cheapest option is simply a bench grinder with a home made attachment for blade alignment. also use the side of the wheel to flatten the back edge. If you can afford it a wet sanding wheel is better but I dont think youll noticw it that much if your just doing chisels.
Steve

[woden]

Simso, do you need to true up the side of the grinding wheel before you flatten the back of a blade? I just fear that this could easily make a mess of your tool - say if there's a bit of wobble in the run of the wheel. Might put rounded edges on the back of something. I don't know, just throwing out some concerns I have. Read somewhere about someone truing up the side of a wheel with a diamond honing plate for something like this.

The thing about a wet grinder is that they seem to be more designed as a honing device or a sort of catch all that combines grinding and honing. I'm really only after something for the grinding part - shaping the bevel and so on and then doing the honing on waterstones. Wet grinders seem not to be as fast at doing this as the dry ones.

[simso]

Yeh good point about the side. Ive never really paid any attention to how true it runs but that being said you move the back of the chisel back and forth on the side of the wheel any way so it should accomodate a straight edge even if its out of round a bit