Pen turning - Costing.

[DavidG]

Pen turning costing based on pen 1.

Pen kit ~$3.00
Wood ~$0.50

Wholesale price ~$12.50
Margin ~$9.00

Based on batches of 15 pens.
6 pens per hour.

For 15 pens.
Cut and prepare wood - 15 Min (1min ea)
Drill - 15 Min (1min ea)
Glue in tubes - 30 Min (2min ea)
Turn and polish - 15 pens 75 Min (5 min ea)
Assemble and check - 15 Min(1 min ea)

You don't really have time to scratch yourself when doing a batch.
This does not cover packing and dispatch.
R & M.
Clean up etc.

Maybe I should charge more?

[Wood Butcher]

If you are making $9 net profit on each pen, making 6 pens per hour thats $54 per hour. Thats not bad money. When I was working FT as a trade Wood Machinist the best I got was around $20.

But if you can get away with charging more and not pushing away your market, then maybe it's something you should consider!

[bdar]

As Wood Butcher said if you can get more go for it. You can have the same pen but the market will control the price. A gallery I sell through will sell some of my pens for $100, the same pen in my home town I would struggle to get $40, it is about location. I know some guys that make pens charge pen kit + pen blank x 3 + 45%. Their cheapest kit is around $36 and dearest is about $145. That is a single kit by the way. David that is cranking them out at that rate. My slimlines sell for $22 each, using the above formula it comes to $21.75 so I take it to the nearest whole dollar. But I use burl blanks, my drilling takes up to about 5 minutes as to not over heat the blank and cause internal cracking, then I coat the inside of the drilled hole with CA to fix any cracks that have appeared. I then clean any excess glue from the drilled hole glue the tubes and then turn. The turning takes about 5 minutes, sanding upto 12000 Micro Mesh about 10 minutes. Applying the CA coats 15 minutes another 10 minutes to level out CA with lathe staionary. Re polish with the 9 grades of MM, EEE, pre polish compound and jewellers polishing rouge. Time is just around one hour for a slime line. I am supplying galleries and jewellery stores and they expect that sort of finish. As I said it depends what market you are aiming to get sale from.
Darren

[DavidG]

The times I gave are the targets which if everything goes absolutely perfectly then I can achieve in bursts but not sustain.

The costings does not include the overheads and any time taken in cleaning and all the other sundry jobs.
It does not include marketing costs.
End result is a gross far less than 54

The market is trash tourist level.
The wood is straight grain oz wood (No burls as they take much longer)
I sand to 600 followed by oil and Shelwax cream.

Using your formulae I would only get $5.00 ea. or $1.5 margin.:(

[Wild Dingo]

Trash tourist market? mmm so why not aim at the higher end tourist market... as a simple exersize the other day I had some discussions (hypothetically working on the sermise that I could produce just 20 pens and 10 in sets per week) with some important people in the southwest town of Busselton... the upshot was that they had over 100,000 tourists through the tourist centre down there in 2005 alone these are mainly wealthy Japanese tourists with the second largest demographic being the wealthy US tourists...

These people spend big need small items of a "carry on" nature and are prepared to pay for genuine authentic Australian items pen sets presentation boxes also made in Aussie woods would sell rapidly and for a prenium... of course this would include insertion of a certificate of authentisity by the maker that its genuine Australian timber used and what type of timber was used... the quote I got was in the vacinity of 80 per slimline type pen on its own 120 in a presentation wooden box for set of 2 pens or pen and pencil set same slimline the two set would sell for 100 per set 150 for the pens in a presentation box... these are people who are more than prepared to pay 70 for a flamin stuffed koala made in China to remind them of their trip and often purchase 4 or 5 as give aways on their return home!

Given that I just sold my first pen the other day for $50 Im wondering why anyone would sell for so little as $20 for a one off original pen made of Authentic Australian hardwoods? I guess it as always will come down to demand expectation and market aimed at... however you also must realise that YOU made it its individual and an equisit in its being made if you value your work so low and thrash them out then I guess the price is about right... actually theres a bloke with a woodshop in Australind that sells them for $20 but then he has other big ticket items that he sells the pens I think are just a bonus value to him... but for a small item than an international traveller that wants something Authentically Australian that they can carry onboard for their return flight a pen in a presentation box is ideal and can then have a status symbol on their desk at the office... Just my thoughts :cool:

PS... and I take about an hour from woe to go for a pen from cutting the blank to finish polish... steady steady catchy monkey ;) oh and Im a raw novice at pen turning... well actually ANY turning in fact! :o

[Lignum]

If you are making $9 net profit on each pen, making 6 pens per hour thats $54 per hour. Thats not bad money.



But can you keep it up for 38hrs per week, then for 4 weeks, then over 52 weeks? Thats just under twelve thousand pens a year:eek:

[Wild Dingo]

AND... to push further with that thought above... is there that much of a market share available on the home/local market?... and to push even a bit more... dont you have a life!!! :D :D :D M missus would slaughter me if I spent a year in the shed and didnt at least come out once!! :eek:

[Buzz]

No way is a Slimline pen worth $50. Good on you though Wild Dingo for getting it! I run a retail shop and can buy slimlines in any timber for $10 from a local maker and in fact now make them myself for $11.25 which allows for a labour cost of $35 per hour. And I am no way as fast as I will become with more practice.

The cost breakdown on doing a batch of ten was:

Cost of kit $2.00 (Shop around - this price was for packs of 10 via Timbecon)
Timber $0 (Off-cuts from the workshops of others are readily available)
Consumables $0.50 (Polish & sandpaper etc)
Time 15 minutes (at $35.00 per hour)
Total (wholesale) cost of pen = $11.25

They are well finished with three coats of polish.

I retail them for $22.00


Buzz

[Sir Stinkalot]

I have been turning pens for a few years now and feel that if I apply myself can get quite a good product (when compared to others I have seen).

For a slimline I try for $20 plus postage ($3.60). I do however make sure I use the higher quality kits and not the crappy ones with the black clip and plain centre band (or even worse the plain gold straight clip).

For larger pens such as the Americana I try for $40 however I make sure that I use highly featured timbers.

I sell a few on Ebay when I get around to it ....
There is a little story of an Americana pen I put up for auction a few months ago .... it was listed firstly for AU$40.00 ..... didn't sell ...... reduced to AU$30.00 ..... didn't sell ..... oh well one more go and try to recoup auction fees paid thus far ..... listed for the last time on the US Ebay US$50 ..... sold within a day or two.

This has happened a few times ..... up the price and get the sale.

I don't make pens to fund retirement ..... I sell what I make so I can make some more as I find it enjoyable. If I make a little profit on each pen all the better. There should be an unwritten law however that penmakers do not charge less than $20 for a slimline ..... it should be rock bottom price as any less starts to make the product look cheap and poorly made.

[ss_11000]

There should be an unwritten law however that penmakers do not charge less than $20 for a slimline ..... it should be rock bottom price as any less starts to make the product look cheap and poorly made.

i charge acrylics, dymondwood etc at $20 and normal wooden ones at $15. i get enough profet and i dont think i would get as many sales if i pushed it up higher....yet

[Sir Stinkalot]

Depends on where you are selling ...... for family and friends there are no overheads so it is easier to sell at less than $20.00 a pop. Problem with family and friends is that the market dries up quickly (unfortunately for them it is often with your early lower quality pens :p ).

If you start having to find a market the overheads are increased .....

Ebay for instance ..... it can cost for a $19.99 pen ....
Gallery Fee AU $0.59
Insertion Fee AU $0.50
Final Value Fee AU $1.05 (sales commission).

Thats $2.14 taken out of your $19.99 already, and even more if they select paypal with credit card payments. These fees are if it sells the first time around ..... if it doesn't sell on the second round it will still cost $2.18.

If you try and sell a woodern pen on Ebay for $15.00 you will run at a loss most of the time.

Market stalls are ever harder with a $30+ outlay. You will need to move high numbers of pens ..... something very difficult with the market crowd as there are many lookers just wandering around on the weekend.

[bdar]

Sir Stinkalot is right the only time I use a black or plain gold clip kit is when I use the mechanism and nib for my cartridge pens and I discard the center band and clip. For slimline pens I will use almost any timber for them and get between $20-$22 for them. For Cigars, Atlas, Polaris, Americanas, Sierras, Mount Blanc, American Flat Tops all types of timbers and I get around $45-$50. The Gentleman, Statesman, Emperor, Baron, JR Gent and JR Statesman all get burls, Aromatic Cedar, Osage Orange, Ebony. The high class kits get the top end range of pen blanks, JR pens and Barons sell for about $70, Gentleman and Statesman $100-$120 and the Emperor $150+. There is a LTD EDT. Emperor that costs about $210 Aust. 22k gold encompassed in rhodium, only 500 kits made. All my pens are sanded with Micro Mesh which gives you the finest finish and all are finished with CA or CA/BLO. People are experimenting with a plexiglass finish which I will give a go down the track. My finish will never wear and the only way the finish can be damaged is if it is treated bad by the user. There is a difference in a finished pen, a lot of people will slap what ever on a pen sell it cheap and not worry about what the thing will look like in a months time. Each to there own. Yes I am looking at the high end of the market using the higher quality kit and to make a good profit, but I am also wanting to show people that there is an art to creating and crafting a timber pen that will last a long time.
Darren

[Roly]

I tend to use whichever kit I can get but lately have been able to get better qulity pen kits. Sell the majority for $A22.00 but the more expensive kits for $A30.00. Don't seem to be having any problem getting rid of them.
I use a fine sanded finish followed by friction wax believing that over a period of time the pen will develop its own patina through being handled constantly. I do tell all my customers that this is the case however.

Regards
Roly

[Hagrid]

with all this talk of how much you can get and how much it cost can anyone tell me the differances in kit types and why the price is different and last of all what are the better types of kits.
when i go into carbatec i feel like there is no differance so why look at better one they certanly do not talk them up.

thanks in advance
Mark

[bdar]

Mark Carb-a-tec are starting to sell high end pen kits now. They are the JR Gents, Statesman and Emperor pens. The Statesman and Emperor are 22k gold with rhodium. The JR Gents are platinum with cobalt ring and end cap. The range of kits from America is huge and there are a big range of platings. You can get 10k Gold, 22k Gold, Titanium Gold, Black Titanium, Copper, Chrome, Sterling Silver, Platinum, Rhodium, Satin Copper and there are even more. If you go to CSUSA site, www.woodturnerscatalog.com and go to pen kits and also to Beartoothwoods site www.beartoothwoods.com to see the Copper and Black Titanium kits. Mark pen crafting is big business in America, that is why you will see that the best kits come from there. Not to many suppliers in Australiathat kits from America and not to many that know about them. If you go to www.cws.au.com Jim Carroll and his team know what they sell and have great service and knowledge on the kits they sell. The better quality plating will last longer than some of the el cheapo kits that are around. If you go to the sites listed that will show you what is available.
Darren

[Hagrid]

Thank you Darren