Ring cutter question?

[TTIT]

Grabbed one of those ring-cutters in my last McJing order just to have a play with. Set it up temporary as in the pic and soon discovered how NOT to use it:eek:. Filthy deep dig-in when you have the cutting edge square to the work. As I had heard though, it did leave a beautiful finish on end grain once I tilted it to about 45 degrees to the work:cool:. I've got some 16mm bar to rig it on but Googling has turned up nothing on the the best way to set up and use these things - any suggestions????

[hughie]

I've got some 16mm bar to rig it on but Googling has turned up nothing on the the best way to set up and use these things - any suggestions????[/QUOTE]

treat them same way as a gouge ie have the bevel against the wood and at 45' as you have discovered.
I have a couple of Rolly Munro cutters that I put on some shafting. See the first two pics or alternatively put a little shield on it

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=29317

It takes a bit of getting used to it but they work fine.
hughie

[TTIT]

Hughie - I somehow missed that other thread before! I had thought about mounting the cutter on square bar to get the 45deg position easier but I also wanted to use it on a swan-neck so that wouldn't work.
The bevel on your cutter appears to be angled slightly whereas mine is at right-angles with a cutting edge both sides so you can flip it over for a whole new edge. I did see in an ad somewhere that they had angled their cutter at 12 degrees for 'safety'??? Would your bevel be at about 12 degrees to the workface???? :confused: I can see how this would help on the bottom of the work but you would still end up square to it as you came back up the side - I think. Maybe that's where the guard comes into play. Do you use it a lot? :confused: Just finishing cuts?:confused:

[hughie]

TTIT,
I have made both, the swan neck with a guard on it But the sq one is actually a Ashley Ilse cutter [about $15 incl post to Oz from the UK each] The swan neck I put a guard somewhat like emrtec? type from Queensland. The first guard needs more work in the [see first pic] as it tends to clog up, reason to go the other type. will post a pic of it next time
Both are mounted flat sq etc no 12' or anything like that. The Munro cutter has parallel sides so its no big deal to get the bevel working. Over it goes at 45 and swing the handle around to ward your body to get it cutting. The more you swing the bigger the cut, you can get some heart stopping catches in the beginning if your too enthusiastic. I buried mine about 1/2'' in to green timber........:eek:
The Ilse cutter has angled sides and so needs more care, it will bite....:D prefer the parallel sides of the Munro as the learning curve is a lot more friendly:D
I use mine mainly for finishing cuts,as I bought a Proforme cutter head and mounted it on my own handle. The Proforme will rip timber out at an alarming rate. It can be set for fine cuts as well, it just saves mucking around resetting things. will also Post a pic of this one too.
hughie

[TTIT]

TTIT,
The Munro cutter has parallel sides so its no big deal to get the bevel working. Over it goes at 45 and swing the handle around to ward your body to get it cutting. The more you swing the bigger the cut, you can get some heart stopping catches in the beginning if your too enthusiastic. I buried mine about 1/2'' in to green timber........:eek:

hughie
Hughie - this is the bit I don't understand!:o I did discover that pulling the handle round to me would start the cut but how does that work for a hollow form or closed bowl where the shank is going to hit the rim too soon to get anywhere?:confused::confused:. I could only keep the cut going for the flattest part of the base:confused: Thanks for your time on this:) Looking forward to pic of the successful guard.:cool:

[hughie]

Hughie - this is the bit I don't understand!:o I did discover that pulling the handle round to me would start the cut but how does that work for a hollow form or closed bowl where the shank is going to hit the rim too soon to get anywhere?:confused::confused:. I could only keep the cut going for the flattest part of the base:confused: Thanks for your time on this:) Looking forward to pic of the successful guard.:cool:


I have yet to use it on a closed form. But even with a severe gooseneck I am not sure it would work.
So I have made a copy of the Munro hollowing system. This can get around the closed forms...well so far anyway. So far this one works ok but need to refine the guard a little , but the concept is sound. I have a couple of closed forms that need to be finished, so I will be giving it a run for its money shortly.
hughie

[TTIT]

Hughie - Looks like the way to go but I don't know about the materials.:( Is that stainless you're using?:confused: I don't think the 16mm mild steel rod I've got will be strong enough once I shave it down enough to fit the elbow piece:(. Let us know how it works out if you're giving it a run on an undercut. In the meantime, I'll have to do some scrounging for better steel :D

[hughie]

Hughie - Looks like the way to go but I don't know about the materials.:( Is that stainless you're using?:confused: I don't think the 16mm mild steel rod I've got will be strong enough once I shave it down enough to fit the elbow piece:(. Let us know how it works out if you're giving it a run on an undercut. In the meantime, I'll have to do some scrounging for better steel :D

TTIT
Yes its Stainless, hmm 16mm should be fine. The goose neck bar is 10mm and it works ok. Have a scrounge around for an old pinch bar or tie rods off an old hydrualic cylinder. I am using Stainless cos i dont have much else to use :(
Where I work we have just scrapped an old machine and the more I took home the less they had to pay the scrappy to take away :D

hughie

[hughie]

[
Thanks for your time on this:) Looking forward to pic of the successful guard.:cool:[/QUOTE]

TTIT,
Heres the guard pics. It works on sweeping curves and obviously not on closed forms. But its ok, Ooops the dia I posted as 10mm should read 12mm for the bar.
The guard is easy to make, I used some 6mm flat ms bar drilled the hole and cut it out with a hack saw, filed the adjustment slot by hand.
hughie

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Hughie, I'm wondering how well your Munro style gooseneck copes with chatter?

I've been thinking of making something similar, but I was going to use twin links, like a bicycle chain, for the neck... the downside, of course, is that the tenon on the shaft and tool-head would be thinner, so any stiffening achieved by the twin links might be cancelled out by flex in the tenons.

Any thoughts?

[hughie]

[quote=Skew ChiDAMN!!]Hughie, I'm wondering how well your Munro style gooseneck copes with chatter?


Skew,
so far chatter seems to be there when the cutter is blunt. Or real hard and dry timber ie old dried out burls, jarrah sleepers etc. But then I do a lot of green turning so its not a major issue with me.
What I have found with multiple links is that they move :mad: But I think I have found away to prevent it. Star lock washers, the internal variety seem to have stopped it .Dual links may not suffer so much from this perhaps.
Paper is a good locking device as well, it bites into the imperfections of the two surfaces. Used to use this method in toolmaking for gripping potential bits that might slip. The only problem is it does not last, hence the star lock washers

On the Munro head I have used 6mm ms as linkage 6,8mm cap screws for the fixing. So flex is not real problem
The pic is an older one that does not have the washer under the links. The bar is 5/8 stainless with a flat m/c on the locking side. The handle is two pieces of tube one inside the other capped at the ends. It heavy so its doesn't jump around much.

cant get the pic up, it keeps telling me I have already up loaded it else where. But I havent..............bugger hughie

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

[quote=Skew ChiDAMN!!]so far chatter seems to be there when the cutter is blunt. Or real hard and dry timber ie old dried out burls, jarrah sleepers etc. But then I do a lot of green turning so its not a major issue with me.

That's fair enough, I can't say I've used any goosenecked tool that wouldn't chatter under those conditions. I'm not sure which way I'll build mine now! The dual link idea needs more machining, which I'm not sure I can do accurately with the tools I have on hand, so your idea is looking better all the time.

[hughie]

That's fair enough, I can't say I've used any goose-necked tool that wouldn't chatter under those conditions. I'm not sure which way I'll build mine now! The dual link idea needs more machining, which I'm not sure I can do accurately with the tools I have on hand, so your idea is looking better all the time.
[/QUOTE]

Skew,
if its any help I'll post pics of it disassembled. I cut the bits out with hacksaw and filed em, using ms its very easy. Just a little time and patience.
Dual links, hmm, well if you drill the holes in the rough cutouts, bolt or secure them together and then shape them all at once. This would cut down on the need for individual shaping. One hole for clearance the other tapped out for clamping. I don't think it would be significantly more difficult than my attempt.
How about side plates off, say 5/8, 3/4 or even 1"pitch chain? Should be enough for tapping etc
The only aspect that needs some careful attention is the design of the guard on top, you know when you got it wrong. The damn thing clogs up all the time :D
hughie

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

if its any help I'll post pics of it disassembled. I cut the bits out with hacksaw and filed em, using ms its very easy. Just a little time and patience.
Dual links, hmm, well if you drill the holes in the rough cutouts, bolt or secure them together and then shape them all at once. This would cut down on the need for individual shaping. One hole for clearance the other tapped out for clamping. I don't think it would be significantly more difficult than my attempt.

Actually, it isn't the links that have me concerned.

My problem is more basic... I'll be using stainless for the handle, from a small old hydraulic ram. :rolleyes: No particular reason, apart from it's what I have to hand at the moment. Tough stuff to work with. The links and the head will be ms, I think, but machining just one side of the tang in the ss is going to be a major headache, let alone doing it symmetrically and fairly accurately. Not looking forward to drilling it out, either. Believe me, if I can find some ms stock of sufficient size, I'll quickly revise my plans. :D

At this stage I haven't given any thought to the guard, apart from leaving sufficient room on the head end of the shaft. One step at a time. :)

[hughie]

My problem is more basic... I'll be using stainless for the handle, from a small old hydraulic ram. :rolleyes: No particular reason, apart from it's what I have to hand at the moment. Tough stuff to work with. The links and the head will be ms, I think, but machining just one side of the tang in the ss is going to be a major headache, let alone doing it symmetrically and fairly accurately. Not looking forward to drilling it out, either. Believe me, if I can find some ms stock of sufficient size, I'll quickly revise my plans. :D

Skew,
Have you checked the handle with a magnet. As they as a rule only use stainless in severe conditions, rather its HT rod hard chromed.
But anyway if it is stainless I cut mine with the fine [ 1.5mm ] cutting discs in a 4'' grinder. Hopefuly its only 304 stainless and not food grade 316
Drilling; no real dramas, use a sharp drill on the slowest speed and do not let the drill bit slide or back off the pressure on the drill and see if you can score some Rocol ultra cut cutting fluid. Failing that you can use Lanoguard or its equivelent as a cutting fluid.
If your going to tap out any of the holes, then go to a slightly bigger drill bit. Tapping is more dangerous than drilling and being slightly over size here wont effect the holding capacity. But it can stop from breaking a the tap --- you dont always get them out----:mad: I speak from experience.
hughie

[hughie]

My problem is more basic... I'll be using stainless for the handle, from a small old hydraulic ram. :rolleyes: No particular reason, apart from it's what I have to hand at the moment. Tough stuff to work with. The links and the head will be ms, I think, but machining just one side of the tang in the ss is going to be a major headache, let alone doing it symmetrically and fairly accurately. Not looking forward to drilling it out, either. Believe me, if I can find some ms stock of sufficient size, I'll quickly revise my plans. :D

Skew,
Have you checked the handle with a magnet. As they as a rule only use stainless in severe conditions, rather its HT rod hard chromed.
But anyway if it is stainless I cut mine with the fine [ 1.5mm ] cutting discs in a 4'' grinder. Hopefuly its only 304 stainless and not food grade 316
Drilling; no real dramas, use a sharp drill on the slowest speed and do not let the drill bit slide or back off the pressure on the drill and see if you can score some Rocol ultra cut cutting fluid. Failing that you can use Lanoguard or its equivelent as a cutting fluid.
If your going to tap out any of the holes, then go to a slightly bigger drill bit. Tapping is more dangerous than drilling and being slightly over size here wont effect the holding capacity. But it can stop from breaking a the tap --- you dont always get them out----:mad: I speak from frustrating experience.
hughie

[scooter]

The shaft out of a ram would more likely be some sort of hard chromed steel I'd reckon.


Cheers.............Sean