Need Help-- Respiratory problems???

[lubbing5cherubs]

HI I really need your advice--- I have only had my lathe a month or two and I have now suffered 4 respiratory infection could this be from turning? Please don't tell me I am allergic to it. I do not want to give it up you will see a grown girl cry. What would you suggest for starting off to see it improves it without breaking the budget?
I have got a dust mask from hardware but tonight I am feeling quite chesty again. I am doing it indoors at the moment near a large sliding door, I just have no where else at the moment to do it. would moving it outside be beneficiary? I am only doing inside at present until hubby makes a roof but I do have a gazebo that is being eyed off at the moment so the wind can blwo away. Any suggestion I would desperately love to hear.bye Toni

[TEEJAY]

Those Triton respirators are a great investment. I have one and can't work without it.

I know you want a free solution but there most likely isn't one.

[lubbing5cherubs]

Those Triton respirators are a great investment. I have one and can't work without it.

I know you want a free solution but there most likely isn't one.

I don't care if it not free but I do not have a lot of cash to outlay
bye Toni

[TEEJAY]

I don't care if it not free but I do not have a lot of cash to outlay
bye Toni

That's one reason why I recommend the Triton - I have one and they work fine especially for a fairly stationary work like lathe stuff and they are about half the price or less than their competitors.

They rate at slightly lower than the better respirators for airflow - but unless you are doing rigorous work (breathing heavy) it is in my opinion not an issue.

You will find woodworking a pleasure again once you find the suffering disappear.

I do remember reading that if you use these things when waxing it isn't great for the clear visor but there are some semi-stick on or if you like removeable disposable clear films that ca be placed over the visor.

[BrisBen]

Hey Toni

I noticed that you are from Winton in Queensland

maybe you could just buy three extension leads and run them from the kitchen power point then you would just about be in the bush ...:p

Seriously though, what timbers are you turning?

Some timbers (eg blackbean) can cause reactions allergic and otherwise, some are just plain irritants in particle form, for example, radiata pine irritates me particularly;)

Post the names of the timber you have been using and I am sure someone on the forum can tell you there experiences

There is still no subtitute for personal protection equipment that prevents the inhalation of airborne particles (dust mask, respirator, one of those triton stormtrooper outfits)

[lubbing5cherubs]

HI BrisBen, Yep I am Wintonite. I been turning some gidgee wood, and acrylics. Acrylics seem to be the worse for how I feel like tonight I had the worse reaction, my eyes and my nose and my chest went on the blitz. Ended up the hospital on the oxygen for a half an hour. To get some releif
Thinking of giving acrylic a miss and sticking with wood
Toni

[Gil Jones]

Toni, by chance are you using CA glue (superglue)? The fumes from that stuff are very bad on my lungs.

[lubbing5cherubs]

Toni, by chance are you using CA glue (superglue)? The fumes from that stuff are very bad on my lungs.

What do you use instead because yes I am using CA glue?
Thanks Toni

[Gil Jones]

Toni, I thought that wood dust or spalted wood fungus was the cause of a very bad case of bronchitis, but it turned out to be CA glue fumes. I still use CA when I need a fast glue-up, but I wear a dual cartridge respirator (with organic vapor cartridges), a fan to blow the fumes out a window, and I seriously try to use the stuff quickly, and leave the shop until the fumes dissipate. If I am not in a rush, I use epoxy. The Triton or the Trend power respirators are great for dust (I use the Trend AirShield), but they are NOT certified for organic vapors or CA fumes. Good luck!!

[Toasty]

Toni, an easy rule of thumb is if you can "smell" the wood then it is getting into your lungs.

Considering your reactions I would say if you can't afford a Triton respirator or similar then at the very VERY least get a decent rubber sealed cartidge filter face mask. Those fabric face masks that are a pack of three for under ten bucks won't do anything for you.

Allergic reactions can INCREASE in severity over time. I'm not saying for a second you should give up turning, but you obvisouly need to do something about your filtration and/or the products you are turning.

Good luck and be sure to post some pictures of your work.

[Salty]

Hi Toni,
if you really want to scare yourself :eek:have a look at http://www.ubeaut.com.au/woodstuf.htm
Many of the woods we turn have some sort of irritant or worse component:(, so wearing the best possible defence system against dust is almost mandatory. To my mind thats the remote filtered, positive pressure mask/face sheild types such as the Racal, Trend, Triton. The problem then becomes one of compliance - can I bother to put it on - I'm only going to do a 2 minute job!!!!

[cedar n silky]

"Triton respirator or similar then at the very VERY least get a decent rubber sealed cartidge filter face mask. Those fabric face masks that are a pack of three for under ten bucks won't do anything for you."

I have worked in the timber/ building game for years, and turned wood, and am agiain turning wood after a long break, because of respiratory issues!
You only get one set of lungs, (transplants are fairly unsuccesfull!) So No short cuts or pennypinching on equipment designed to filter dust.
The only problem as I see it with the triton respirator, is the ear muffs, which are part of the set up. They cannot come off without compromising the set. You need to be comfortable when all kitted out, (and you don't need ear protection on the lathe (in fact it's better you can hear whats going on while turning!)
It was suggested you could sew over the earmuff holes once you took them out of the equation, but you don't want to be compromising the integrity of the equipment.
Also battery pack versus standard rechargable batteries is an issue. It is handy to have a system where AA batteries (rechargeable) or the like can be replaced into the charging system should your rechargables run out of puff at a crucial time. (it's a bummer having to wait hours for the pack to recharge, especialy if you are on an inspirational high!)
Some systems ony have sealed "packs", and a second pack can be pretty expensive to buy, so see if there is a respirator that runs on the common
battery sizes it would be an advantage.
Cheers:D

[cedar n silky]

Here is a thread worth looking at. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=303163

I am looking at the ins and outs of a respirator myself, but the Triton has ear muffs on them which apparantly can't easily be removed or put aside. I would put that out there for discussion before buying a respirator. Any one else got a comment?
You need to be pretty comfortable working a lathe, and having ear muffs clamped to your ears adds an unnessasary level of discomfort, as you really need to be listening to the lathe/ wood/ tools continuously!
That's my 2 bob!
Can any one recomend other brands? I checked the Trend respirator on the internet.
Cheers

[CameronPotter]

I agree entirely with Gil.

It sounds exactly like my reaction to CA.

I posted a thread on this in the Safety forum.

I now only use CA outside with a gas mask with pesticide filters AND I try to do it all as fast as possible and I don't bring it into the shed until I have to.

CA is nasty stuff - that being said, I also have a Triton which is a great help, but it was the CA that was causing me grief.

Feel free to PM me for more information.

Cam

[rsser]

Beyond all that news, bear in mind that wood dust is now considered a carcinogen on a par with asbestos.

Which is to say THERE IS NO SAFE DOSE.

Apologies for shouting.

[bitingmidge]

Beyond all that news, bear in mind that wood dust is now considered a carcinogen on a par with asbestos.

Which is to say THERE IS NO SAFE DOSE.

I think I'll take you to task there Ern; Considered by whom??

Asbestos needs special licenses, handling and places to dispose of it as well as methods for doing so. If wood dust was considered to be "on a par" then surely what we do would be outlawed (just like smoking is!:rolleyes: ).

As far as my research tells me, wood dust can contain allergens which promote severe reactions in some people, and some forms have links to cancer after somewhat PROLONGED EXPOSURE.

I'd be happy to be corrected in the interests of all, but think that without taking away from the dangers, putting it on a par with asbestos is probably not quite correct.

Cheers,

P
:cool:

[bsrlee]

Re: Triton helmet dust filter.

1) you can put ANY grade of filters in it, even hazmat rated ones - the ones supplied are only for dust, but you can buy fume rated ones from some hardware and DIY auto stores.

2) The earmuffs can be swung out, off your ears, otherwise it would be rather painful to put on/take off the helmet :p There is a gap left when they are swung out, but it is a positive pressure system so it shouldn't affect the dust/fume rating too much. If you REALLY hate earmuffs that much, you could just take a hacksaw to them & duct tape over the holes in the shroud.:eek:

[arcronet]

Gentlemen, over a career of 45+ yrs of being involved in wood working of one form or another from Carpentry & Joinery, Manufacturing Craft Furniture, Wood Turning, Training apprentices, Teaching Woodcraft Teachers.

There are very few timbers in the world that are proven to be "CARCINOGENIC" by far the most dangerous timbers to work with are any of the man made composite boards from plywoods, Marine plys, Chip (particle) Board, & Medium Density Fibre Boards (MDF or Customwood is totally band in the U.S.A. & EUROPE).:eek:

These boards have glue & fire retardents incorporated in their composition and it's these chemicals that causes the problems associated with working with them.

There are only a few Austrailan timbers that can cause serious upper respitory difficulties and should be avoided where possible.
BLACK BEAN, RED BEAN, AND ALL OF THE SHEOAK FAMILY.:(

Should you req1uire futher information re the above mentioned timbers & composites go to the C.S.I.R.O. site and check out the info on their site (sorry I haven"t the web address):confused:

[rsser]

I think I'll take you to task there Ern; Considered by whom??

Asbestos needs special licenses, handling and places to dispose of it as well as methods for doing so. If wood dust was considered to be "on a par" then surely what we do would be outlawed (just like smoking is!:rolleyes: ).

As far as my research tells me, wood dust can contain allergens which promote severe reactions in some people, and some forms have links to cancer after somewhat PROLONGED EXPOSURE.

I'd be happy to be corrected in the interests of all, but think that without taking away from the dangers, putting it on a par with asbestos is probably not quite correct.

Cheers,

P
:cool:

In 1996 the American Society of Industrial Hygienists made the determination the wood dust was as carcinogenic as asbestos (reported in Fine Woodworking that year).

We used to think that the extent of hazard with asbestos was dose related. The link with lung disease was first noted in the 1920's. By the 50's lots of workers were coming down with asbestosis and lung cancer inc. mesothelioma and public autorities in some cases recognised the connection and recommended minimum safe levels of particles in the air. By the 80s, the authorities determined that there was no safe level of exposure though sadly asbestos remained in use for another two decades.

Mesothelioma and asbestosis (a fibrotic condition of the lungs) are the only two diseases that have asbestos as the clear and only cause. Many other lung cancers may be caused by asbestos (and wood dust) or by other carcinogens and it's not possible to be 100% sure what the culprit is. Esp. since the carcinogenic effect can take 25 years to show and folks can be exposed to a range of other risk factors in that time.

So, does the story of asbestos give any comfort that the authorities will get it right and act quickly? Absolutely not. Asbestos was banned in brake linings only a few years ago, some 80 years after the first indications of its hazards. The authorities' inaction on other airborne disease agents is no proof at all of the absence of risk.

So feel free to gamble with your lungs if you like but I reckon that sure would perplex the poor ex-SEC sods down in Gippsland dying a slow and painful dealth from unnecessary causes.

_________________

Edit: "In Australia all wood dust is now classified as carcinogenic (liable to cause cancer)" http://www.ubeaut.com.au/badwood.htm

Nasal cancer: http://infoventures.com/osh/abs/wood0002.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9048321&dopt=Abstract

[keith53]

Those Triton respirators are a great investment. I have one and can't work without it.

Ditto. Best thing since sliced bread.

[TTIT]

I don't want to send you into a panic here Toni as I suspect your problem will be the CA or the acrylic but are you aware that Gidgee has the same chemical in it that they use to make 1080 - yes - that's right - dingo poison!!:eek::eek: :eek: It is said that cattle (ruminants) can drop dead instantly from eating the leaves/seeds at cetain times. Scary huh! I did a bit of research though and can find no indication that the timber will cause you harm - except someone on the forum once posted a thread claiming they got crook (headaches) turning it - wonder if he's still kickin':confused: :confused: Either way, I picked up a ute load of Gidgee 2 weeks ago and can't wait to start turning it - if I suddenly stop posting, you'll know what's happened!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[lubbing5cherubs]

I don't want to send you into a panic here Toni as I suspect your problem will be the CA or the acrylic but are you aware that Gidgee has the same chemical in it that they use to make 1080 - yes - that's right - dingo poison!!:eek::eek: :eek: It is said that cattle (ruminants) can drop dead instantly from eating the leaves/seeds at cetain times. Scary huh! I did a bit of research though and can find no indication that the timber will cause you harm - except someone on the forum once posted a thread claiming they got crook (headaches) turning it - wonder if he's still kickin':confused: :confused: Either way, I picked up a ute load of Gidgee 2 weeks ago and can't wait to start turning it - if I suddenly stop posting, you'll know what's happened!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

I hope not that easy to get. I do think glue where on the right track as soon as I use it my eyes blow up so I think that what may cause the problem. I hope so
Toni

[graemecarson]

No-one seems to have mentioned a dust collector yet. I know you're working in a pretty open area, but I use a dust collector to suck fine dust and fumes away from the lathe and a triton respirator as well. I suffer from asthma so will not take a chance. I have one of the $29 Big Gulp attachments from Carbatec on the end of a 4inch flexible tube which is plumbed in to a collection system with a 2hp collector on the business end. It does a good job (for a lathe based collector anyway). Just a thought - as everyone seems to agree - how much are your lungs worth?

Cheers

[rsser]

esp. if you put a felt bag or pleated filter cartridge on to pick up more of the fine stuff.

[hughie]

Hi All,
Whilst the jury might be out on some types of wood dust and what exactly are thier dangerous side effects. There is ample evidence that none of it is good for humans.

The body of evidence is such that we all should take steps to avoid all inhalation of any wood dust.

hughie

In Australia all wood dust is now classified as carcinogenic (liable to cause cancer) This list has been compiled to give woodworkers a little bit of an insight into the potential health hazards posed by some of the timbers that are used.
http://www.ubeaut.com.au/badwood.htm



http://www.vwa.org.au/des_dangwd.htm
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/archive/index.php/t-23638.html
http://unionsafe.labor.net.au/hazards/104725972124532.html
http://www.ami.dk/upload/WD-Johnni_Hansen.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9048321&dopt=Abstract
http://infoventures.com/osh/abs/wood0002.html
http://www.trifl.org/cedar.shtml

[rsser]

and

1 mg per cubic metre may be a safe level for softwoods: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9093652&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

Effects may take 40 years to show on average:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8266936&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

"Occupational exposure to irritative or allergic wood dust may lead to bronchial asthma, rhinitis, alveolitis allergica, DDTS (Organic dust toxic syndrome), bronchitis, allergic dermatitis, conjunctivitis. An increased risk of adenocarcinoma of the sinonasal cavity is an important and serious problem associated with occupational exposure to wood dust. Adenocarcinoma constitutes about half of the total number of cancers induced by wood dust. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8231799&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8231799&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12011734&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9698991&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

So: we have the same notion as with asbestos of a 'safe dose' tho we're not certain what it is because, as with asbestos, the causation can take many years to follow its course.

Wot Hughie said: bad stuff to breathe.

[hughie]

then,

if we only breath out when turning it should not be a problem:D

ps

It now appears that there is no safe level of asbestos contact.
Only the arbitrariness of it, where some never have a problem working in it up to their noses; whereas some with the most minimal exposure die from it 20 or 30 years later.

hughie