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View Full Version : how do you sand a pen??



holmsy2000
28th May 2006, 11:06 PM
i have made a few pens for myself and they have turned out quite nice but they took me a few hours to turn and sand, and reading here people say they can turn and sand in like 15mins so i was wondering whats the deal??
i sand with each grit while the lahe is running, and then i stop it and sand along the length of the pen to get the scratches linned up with the grain, and then i turn the lathe on again for the next grit. is this how everyone else does it??
Im about to start a really low paying job where i will have lots of spare time at home so i thought i might make a few pens to see just for a little beer money but i would like to increase my speed a little, so any tips?

brett

Sir Stinkalot
28th May 2006, 11:17 PM
I dont stop to sand with the grain unless I need to.

Make sure that you only use good quality paper. The cheap stuff has odd sized abrasive in it which ruins your finish.

It should only take 15-20 sec per paper grade.
Make sure you go up the grades in the appropriate steps, not 120-400-800.

holmsy2000
29th May 2006, 12:47 PM
OH OK, so i dontr even need to stop the lathe, your saying i ca do it all with the lathe running. this is going to save me heaps of time, also i wot need to worry about flat spots, thanks stinky.
brett

bdar
29th May 2006, 01:01 PM
Brett as Sir said, 15-20 seconds, only a light touch. If you are doing straight bush to bush turning use a cork block to maintain that straight line. I cut one one the bandsaw lenghtwise in 1/3's. I finish with a skew so I start around 240 and go to 600 wet and dry then I start with 1500 Micro Mesh through to 12000. Around 4 minutes tops with the sanding. It's the finishing of the pen that takes time, depending on how and what you finish your pen with.
Darren

Skew ChiDAMN!!
29th May 2006, 08:57 PM
It's also a good idea to wipe down with a damp cloth (or blow off with a compressor) between grits.

I'll stress the "light touch" bit... if it gets hot on the finger, back off. Ya don't want to overheat the veneer (whether it be timber, acrylic or whatever) or you run a high risk of loosening the glue, splitting the wood or melting acrylics...

soundman
29th May 2006, 10:46 PM
I've been running 180, 240,400, 600,1200 a coat of shelawax, eee then more shelawax, repeat the eee & shelawax as you feel keen.

I do shapes in my pens that takes a bit longer but 35 to 40 min. I'm not real fast.
cheers

ss_11000
30th May 2006, 04:01 PM
is it ok to wet sand wood? and is 400-800 too big of a gap?

CameronPotter
30th May 2006, 04:29 PM
400 to 800 is too big.

I personally don't wet sand wood, although I am thinking of trying Danish oil sanding...

Cam

bdar
30th May 2006, 04:44 PM
Cam go one steep further, use BLO (Boilled Linseed Oil) to pop the grain and then some CA on the paper towel that you applied the BLO with for a good plastic finish ;). How are you mate? Liked the work on the bangles BTW.
Darren

CameronPotter
30th May 2006, 04:55 PM
Thanks.

I have another set of bangles that I will do soon (made in a special bangle micarta mould).

As for BLO/CA. I have tried it and I didn't actually like it all that much. Mind you, maybe that was more technique than anything. However, I get nasty reactions from CA glue and I try to avoid it where possible, so I doubt that I will be using the BLO/CA finish regularly.

Recently I have been getting really great finishes (as good as anything I have seen in person) from Shellawax Glow...

Mind you, I haven't seen any great pen maker's pen in person. :o

Cam

keju
30th May 2006, 09:01 PM
Hi Brett
I used to have a lot of trouble with pen finishes myself, I got so frustrated with this that I started looking for answers to this problem. I finally found the answer it is called perserverence, firstly listen to the other people who have answered this thread there is a lot of usefull information to be had in the various replies, me personally I Love Neil Elis's products I use them all from Shellawax to shellawax paste my personal favourite along with shellawax glow and EEE sheene anyway enough of a plug for Neil and his product as for the sanding I sometimes go as far as 2500 grit very rarly do I go any further in grit but as a final finish I always end my sanding with 0000 steel wool and and use one of the above mentioned Ubueat finishes
hope you find the sucess you require
Ken

Skew ChiDAMN!!
31st May 2006, 02:55 AM
is it ok to wet sand wood? and is 400-800 too big of a gap?

I usually wet sand the first coat on my turned items and often on other things as well, but I very rarely use sanding sealers. IMHO wet sanding does the same job and looks better.

400 -> 800 is way too much. You want a 600 in there at least, personally I also use a 480.

ss_11000
1st June 2006, 04:41 PM
400 -> 800 is way too much. You want a 600 in there at least, personally I also use a 480.

i think i've got some 600 or something.....its a foam pad thingy thats really fine that leaves a better finish than 400 but a duller one than 800.

after 480, what do you use, do you got 500 and soimething or go straight to 600

CameronPotter
1st June 2006, 04:50 PM
I sand from:

60 (for SOME bowls that are being awkward)
80 (for SOME pens that are being awkward)
120 (usually just a very quick pass to make sure that there are no tool marks)
240
320
400
600
800
1000
1200
1500
2000 (for plastics)

Skew ChiDAMN!!
1st June 2006, 08:58 PM
The idea behind working the grades is to get rid of the scratches left by the previous grit... and I've found that although you can go from 400 to 800 you spend a lot longer long sanding than you would if you'd used 600 for a few seconds before the 800. If you find yourself using any grit for minutes at a time, that's a damned good hint that you're using too high a grade. ;) Either you didn't get all the scratches out with the previous one or you need another grade in-between.

120 and coarser, only "fixing" really bad tearout (or the occasional shaping when I'm being lazy. :cool: ) I never use these on pens.

150... only on the worst pens.
180... I normally start here.
240... although when I've had a good day I sometimes start here.
320
400
480
600... I usually stop here for hard wood items.
800
1000.. and stop about here for soft wood items.

1200, 1500, 1800 are only used on acrylics, etc.

BTW, by hard & soft wood I don't mean hardwood & softwood. :rolleyes: As you probably know by now, some hardwoods are soft and vice-versa.

ss_11000
1st June 2006, 09:20 PM
i start around 150/180 too., i'm hoping to get to a hardware store soon, to replenish my sp supplies

yep, i no what u mean by hard and soft woods.

another question: if paper or sponge or whatever doesn't have a grit marking, how do you tell what it is.

Sir Stinkalot
1st June 2006, 10:01 PM
Make sure you get good sandpaper .... after you have tried the good stuff you will never go back. I once used the black wet and dry from Supercheap but have been able to get hold of some cheap Hermes brand stuff ..... the same as sold by Jim Carroll .... lasts abouth 10x longer then the supercheap stuff and much nicer to use.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
1st June 2006, 10:20 PM
Personally, if paper doesn't have markings I won't use it. It's probably cheap stuff and not worth using, trust me on this!

By sponges, I gather you mean the handpads like Hermes Webrax and 3M Scotchbrite pads?

From memory, Hermes webrax is colour-coded along the lines of: Olive = 80, Brown = 280, Reddish = 360 and Grey = 1500.

I forget what the scotchbrites are... I haven't used 'em in ages. But it shouldn't take much to work out, by simply sanding different parts of a spindle with known grits (like, start at 120 at one end and work to, say, 800 at the other) and then, with the finest pad sand again from the 800 end and work back. It'll be fairly obvious what grit range the pad is... it'll make what you've done with finer grits worse whlie improving the finish of the parts done with the grits lower than it. Then use the next finest pad and see what it does.

Easier done than explained. :rolleyes:


And Stinky is spot on about Hermes paper. It's my favourite but only goes up to 600g. And doesn't include 480g, dammit. I buy either Norton or 3M wet'n'dry for the other grades... but I get 'em through a panel-beater mate to get 'em cheap. (Hint, hint. ;) )

soundman
1st June 2006, 11:15 PM
Dont mess with cheap sand paper.
dont buy it from the hardware, and abrasive supplier is better.
The foam pads are probably the ones designed for the auto trade that are sandpaper with a bout 4mm foam backing.
I was using nonwoven abrasive (scotchbrite) on my pens but I find paper give better results.
I find that skipping 1 gritt is fine mostly, it happens prety quick on a pen anyway.
EEE ultrashine rocks!

cheers

CameronPotter
2nd June 2006, 10:05 AM
But Stirlo, if you mean that you tore up a it of paper (that did have numbers on it) well, you should write the grit on as soon as you have torn the paper...

As for explaining why I start with such high grits, basically more out of habit than anything. I have started at 400 before and not noticed any difference (on a well-turned piece), but my paper is stacked in order, so I tend to use it in order (even if only very briefly).

Cam

Iain
2nd June 2006, 02:41 PM
I bought a rotary sander (lathe type) after reading so much about them.
I thought that a lot of this was bull s### and decided to try it then give it a bagging.
Well, I tried it with 80-120-180-240-320 and I am happy with the bagging Neil gave it, nice little glossy U Beaut one with two cute little handles.
It works, and it works quickly and gives a smooth finish that I couldn't achieve with a straight abrasive on a block.
I finish off with EEE paste and shellawax of choice depending uipon the project.
Neils assures us that 320 on the disc is about the equivalant of 1200 straight(I think).
Yesterday I spun up a handle for a tool, took about 10 minutes from square block to handle, sanded through all grits and finished with Shellawax cream.

ss_11000
2nd June 2006, 04:44 PM
But Stirlo, if you mean that you tore up a it of paper (that did have numbers on it) well, you should write the grit on as soon as you have torn the paper...
yeah, i do do that now because i figured out that one. but i found an old piece unused that looked liked 180 but felt like 320

but my paper is stacked in order, so I tend to use it in order (even if only very briefly). i find thats the best way too.

Cam

CameronPotter
2nd June 2006, 05:04 PM
Old torn bits you just throw away. If you don't know what it is, it isn't worth keeping.

ss_11000
3rd June 2006, 11:34 AM
Old torn bits you just throw away. If you don't know what it is, it isn't worth keeping.

fair enough