hardening spalted wood [Archive]

PHD1

16th June 2006, 02:17 PM

Hi All,

I have been working with some great big leaf maple burl. I has some spalting in it too. The last piece i turned was spherical vessel with spalting falling of the the top onto to great curl. This piece also has a blackwood collar. The problem that i had was when i came to finishing. The spalted maple was VERY soft and the blackwood is hard. Is the a product that will harden the maple. Ideally i would like to put it on after i turn the outside. That way it will be stonger when i hollow it out. I have tryed epoxy, but im also using acohol to dry and the to dont work well together.

Happy turning

PAH1

16th June 2006, 02:56 PM

try craft supplies in Utah, they sell an acrylic polymer to do exactly what you want.

rowie

16th June 2006, 04:09 PM

super glue works well too :cool:

PAH1

16th June 2006, 05:03 PM

From what I am starting to hear is that super glue only lasts for about 8yrs, apparently there are some very expensive gallery pieces in the US that are falling apart because the superglue has failed.

Skew ChiDAMN!!

16th June 2006, 06:32 PM

I've had some good success with soaking spalted woods in danish oil under a vacuum. I've also had a few miserable failures :rolleyes: but I think I've got it all under control now. It saturates quite thoroughly, even after leaving aside for a week or so I can turn down an inch or two and strike damp danish, whereupon I put the job aside for a few more days. It works well for me.

As for how it compares to using CA... ask me again in another 8 years or so. ;)

Mikko

16th June 2006, 09:04 PM

Any happy users of Polycryl here?
I'm very keen, but would like to hear a tad more from folks using it.

I have heaps of pretty stunning spalted/rotten timber that I would need to stabilise. Actually...my main interest these days is making stuff out of highly compromised timber.

I have heard similar stories of superglue. However, the industial grade CA's are apparently less prone to wearing out. I'm still limiting the use of CA to keeping the bark on and making fills with sawdust/epoxy paste.

Please post a lot! This subject is very interesting.

Cheers,
Mikko

bdar

16th June 2006, 10:15 PM

PHD1 you can use a poly uerathane under vacuum let it hold for a day or so remove it and allow to dry. Also you can use a plexi glass/acetone mix to stabilise your timber. Just need the consistency of thin CA.
Darren

Hickory

17th June 2006, 01:01 AM

I have been having success with a vacuum method of stabilizing punky wood. Simple process of using a Pickle jar or any large mouth sealable jar. and a hand vacuum pump along with a hardening sealer (such as Polyurethane or sanding sealer) I use whatever I can get on sale and at cheap price. Submerge the piece of wood in the container and attach a hand vacuum pump, (I use a pump designed to assist in one man automobile brake bleeding, available at local discount auto shops for $25-$30 (USD) Attach the pump (in my case the pump comes with a suction cup that you put over a hole in the lid) Extract the air from the jar and bubbles will form as air exits the pulpy wood. Do this until the bubbles stop. Then break the seal and allow the pressure back in and it will force the liquid into the voids where the air once was. Repeat the process untill the air bubbles stops coming from the wood. Take the piece out , drain and allow to dry. Once dried the piece is hard as the finish used and stable, If you turned a green piece and used alcohol to cure, then use this method after the alcohol dries and the piece has "rested" from the drunken adventure and become stabilized. Will add a couple of days to the wait period.

hughie

17th June 2006, 01:28 AM

I've had some good success with soaking spalted woods in danish oil under a vacuum.

Skew I have often wondered about using a vacuum. Will have to dig out my vac pump and give the once over. cheers
hughie

hughie

17th June 2006, 01:30 AM

[
Also you can use a plexi glass/acetone mix to stabilise your timber. Just need the consistency of thin CA.

Darren, Plexi glass I take it your referring to polycarbonate? hughie

Skew ChiDAMN!!

17th June 2006, 01:36 AM

I must admit that when I first heard of it they were using PolyU.

I've a dislike for the stuff, hence my trials with Danish Oil. It makes for longer drying times but I can live with that, particularly as I usually finish with DO anyway.

Hickory's method sounds interesting, I think I'll give it a try but I usually simply leave it vac'd down until the timber stops floating. Normally well under 24hrs, occasionally longer.

Hickory

17th June 2006, 03:32 AM

Hickory

17th June 2006, 03:38 AM

Also you can use a plexi glass/acetone mix to stabilise your timber. Just need the consistency of thin CA.
Darren

The container for Yogart disolves easily in Acetone and hardens well after it evaporates. Of course this might leave a whitening color in the wood.

Skew, I don't leave my vacuum over night because I am too impatient. Perhaps if I did the ozzing air would go deeper, I'll try, next time to wait longer.

I use any hardening finish, I was in a store that was clearing its shelves and marked down Sanding sealer to $7 (USD) per gal. I bought one, then went back the next day and got another just for this process.

rsser

17th June 2006, 12:46 PM

On a related topic maybe you can give me some ideas...

Have turned a large Norfolk pine bowl and this stuff apparently goes translucent when soaked in poly. I'd like to give it a go. Wrinkle is I'd need about 8 litres to cover the bowl in a drum. Even 4 l is a bit of an ouch.

Any ideas to soak without these quantities?

Sound plastic bag?

Dilute 50/50 with turps?

TIA

hughie

17th June 2006, 01:27 PM

On a related topic maybe you can give me some ideas...

Ern,
On a lesser scale, I keep on hand several sized containers for soaking bowls in. I find the plastic bag sometime has parts of the bowl high and dry and so not very good.

What has occurred to me is the cheap plastic mixing bowls and some of the large plastic storage containers.The ones you can get at the reject type shops. The beauty of the storage cont. is that the lid fits fairly well and should lessen the likelihood of the mix going off and therefore lessen need to continually buy more.
hughie

rsser

17th June 2006, 06:35 PM

Thanks Hughie, will go hunting.

Skew ChiDAMN!!

17th June 2006, 10:06 PM

Perhaps a good quality plastic bag (as used for vac presses) and wrap the bowl in thoroughly saturated absorbent material first? Something to "wick" the fluid into the high spots? May work with Hughies' idea as well, to reduce the amount needed inside the bowl.

I hope it works out... and I'd love to see photos of the finished product. ;)

hughie

18th June 2006, 01:28 AM

Something to "wick" the fluid into the high spots?

Ern,
I reckon thats the way to go as you would probably use a couple of litres max, especially if can get the plastic to conform to inside of the bowl.

Nice one Skew!

hughie

rsser

18th June 2006, 09:01 AM

Thanks Guys. Sounds like its worth a shot.

(I did for 2 seconds think about turning bowls to match above and below like a mould).

bdar

19th June 2006, 01:32 AM

hughie

19th June 2006, 02:09 AM

Hughie you are correct in thinking polycarbonate, I have 8 sheets 4' square. I use it for my pen blanks. Bust off what you need and just cover it with acetone and let it disolve to a thick syrup and thin as required.

Darren, If it was thin enough you could use it instead of CA for fixing cracks etc . It would set fine and at best be less rigid that CA. Gonna have a go at this, nice one, thanks :D

bdar

19th June 2006, 10:10 PM

Hughie got to The Pen Shop www.thepenshop.net there is a tutorial on the home page where one of the guys have been using it as a finishing coat for his pens. As I said you can use it and stabilise spalted or rotten wood. Depending on the chamber size that you have the pelxi in and the ability to draw and hold the vacuum, doing bowls would not be impossible, costly, but not impossible.
Darren

soundman

19th June 2006, 11:11 PM

I just occured to me,
I was down the local butchers one day & he had his vacume packer out.

now that would be the go.
insert bowl/whatever a fist full of rag and a real good sloping of whatever is the go.
suck it down on the vacume packer & heat seal the bugger.

anyway the bags used would be worth a look.

cheers

hughie

20th June 2006, 01:24 AM

As I said you can use it and stabilise spalted or rotten wood. Depending on the chamber size that you have the pelxi in and the ability to draw and hold the vacuum, doing bowls would not be impossible, costly, but not impossible.

Darren,

I am in the particular postion of owning a good vac pump and a steady source of free Polycarbonate. I work in the packaging industry, GMP and OHS requirments provide a constant source of Polycarbonate.The only item I would have to buy is the actone :D

So I will give it a go and post my results

hughie

leppikallio

20th June 2006, 08:01 PM

Any happy users of Polycryl here?
I'm very keen, but would like to hear a tad more from folks using it.

Hi,

I think I'm bit rude as I jump in the middle of conversation as a new person. But please forgive cheapskate me :rolleyes:.

Have you tried that (famous Wally Dickerman) mixture of 50/50 white glue and water? I have had good results with that (little I have tested that). Rough turn the piece close to final dimensions and soak it in mixture overnight and then let it dry. If you can't soak then just brush the mixture and put the piece in plastic bag overnight and let it dry.

Makes it possible to turn those almost lost pieces.

btw. where do you live in Finland Mikko?

rsser

20th June 2006, 08:46 PM

Mikko

20th June 2006, 09:54 PM

Umm...need to give that whiteglue mix a go. I just have my doubts as whiteglues do not dry rockhard.
Will try it however.

I live in Evitskog. On border of Kirkkonummi and Siuntio.
How about you?

Cheers,
Mikko

bdar

20th June 2006, 11:35 PM

Ern,
A lot of the big retailers sell home vacuum sealers around the $70 mark some dearer, don't know what sort of vacuum they pull but that might be worth a look.
Hughie,
Maybe a phone call or email to on of the makers of acetone and see if they would do a bulk deal on it, if you get serious about it. Your results will be interesting to follow.
Darren

Cliff Rogers

20th June 2006, 11:49 PM

If you can still buy it, Adesze (sp) Floor Sealer diluted 50/50 with Adesze Thinner.
Stinks liked bug'ry but soaks in well & then turns the punky stuff to hard plastic.
Turns without tearing out after a couple of coats.

hughie

21st June 2006, 05:02 AM

[

If you can still buy it, Adesze (sp) Floor Sealer diluted 50/50 with Adesze Thinner.

Cliff I have tried a few different Bunnies down here in Sydney and they no longer stock it :(

leppikallio

21st June 2006, 06:28 PM

I live in Evitskog. On border of Kirkkonummi and Siuntio.
How about you?

I live in Läyliäinen, about 50km from Helsinki to north...

rodent

22nd June 2006, 02:23 AM

Sanding sealer also works .but try white shelac if you dont likr the stronger solvents it just takes a little longer too dry.

hughie

22nd June 2006, 01:31 PM

you are correct in thinking polycarbonate, I have 8 sheets 4' square. I use it for my pen blanks. Bust off what you need and just cover it with acetone and let it disolve to a thick syrup and thin as required.

Darren,

Hmm slight hitch to proceedings. Went down to Bunnies bought the acetone cut my poly into 1/2''sq sticks about 3'' long and they have been soaking for 48hrs, no melt down, only change is they have gone white. What I might have is an acrylic? or some thing, but it is definitely poly /acrylic. :confused:

hughie

soundman

22nd June 2006, 11:36 PM

polycarbonate and acrillic are two wildly differing things.

The meerest breath of any hydrocarbon solvent and polycarbonate will be on its way to crazing & generaly mis behaving.
Acrillic is much more solvent tolerant.

cheers

hughie

23rd June 2006, 09:44 AM

Acrillic is much more solvent tolerant.

Bugger.....which leads me to the obvious question what attacks acrylic?

All your chemists out there.
hughie

cedar n silky

23rd June 2006, 10:05 AM

I have heaps of pretty stunning spalted/rotten timber that I would need to stabilise. Actually...my main interest these days is making stuff out of highly compromised timber.
ICheers,
Mikko
Any chance of you posting a couple ofdigital photos of your work?I am interested to see what you get up to on the other side of the world!:D
Cheers

Skew ChiDAMN!!

23rd June 2006, 04:20 PM

Bugger.....which leads me to the obvious question what attacks acrylic?

Turners? :rolleyes::p

Along similar lines, does anyone know what those white, plastic chopping boards (as oft used in kitchens) are? I've a few offciuts lying around here and they look terrible as pen inserts. I don't have enough solvents lying around to experiment. (Well... actually I do, but they're all on-site and I ain't spending half the day travelling just to bring some home... ;))

Mikko

23rd June 2006, 06:45 PM

Mr Cedar,

My workshop is being completly renowated and my lathe (Wadkin) is also having its electronics redone. The new lathe is on its way from your corner of the world (VL300 with all imaginable gizmos).

As soon as I'm back in production, I promise to post plenty of pics.

Cheers,
Mikko

soundman

23rd June 2006, 10:12 PM

so when are we having a finish members conference.

sorry chaps I wont be able to come this time:D

hughie

24th June 2006, 01:28 AM

Along similar lines, does anyone know what those white, plastic chopping boards (as oft used in kitchens) are? I've a few offcuts lying around here and they look terrible as pen inserts. I don't have enough solvents lying around to experiment.

Skew to the best of my knowledge most cutting boards are made from nylon. Its cheap and hard wearing and not much use for anything else :D

hughie

soundman

24th June 2006, 10:17 PM

I just had a thaught.
Makes Ar Ha noise, puts on inteligent face & points to light bulb over head.

Those wine bottle thingys that suck the air out of the bottle so the wine don't go off.

just ran the tape measure over the kneck of a wine bottle & I recon a pen blank would fit in ther just nice, particularly iff you knocked the corners off it.

stuff a whole pile of pen blanks into a wine bottle, fill up with potion of choice and suck the air out of it.

I not sure how much vacume you would get with the standard thingy but I'm sure the tim taylor treatment would get some results.

btw best mark the bottle with the words "nasty poison" and not put it in the fridge.

cheers

leppikallio

25th June 2006, 07:12 AM

The new lathe is on its way from your corner of the world (VL300 with all imaginable gizmos).

:eek:

Oh my my... may I ask where did you order that and who much shipping is going to cost? Just asking because I keep dreaming about "white giant", give me atleast small white dwarf (1224). I just don't want to think what it is going to cost to get one of those from Canada to Finland...

Sorry folks, finnish conference is over, loppu as we say...

rsser

25th June 2006, 08:45 AM

Good thinking Soundman. Unfortunately in my experience those wine vac pumps don't do much; maybe give you a day.

Skew ChiDAMN!!

25th June 2006, 08:51 PM

Skew to the best of my knowledge most cutting boards are made from nylon. Its cheap and hard wearing and not much use for anything else :D

More or less what I thought. It also works OK as "wear pads" on some sliding surfaces, but it's main use seems to be taking up space. Oh well...

soundman

25th June 2006, 09:58 PM

white cutting boards are usualy made of high density polyethelyne (some less high than others) is of the nylon like greasy plastics family & is resistant to most common solvents.

cheers

hughie

28th June 2006, 01:47 PM

Thanks Guys. Sounds like its worth a shot.

Ern what about wine cask bags! Double the fun.........:D

Gotta be strong enough.....bugger! they come full, hmmm what can we do about that? ;) Oh well it was a good idea at the time.

:D hughie

rsser

28th June 2006, 02:19 PM

Yeah, the 20l ones - good idea! Make lots of friends in the process ;-}

No, this one is sitting while I finish other projects. Stubby's developed a rattle in the headstock so I'm replacing the bearings. First buy a 14mm hex socket to loosen the handwheel bolt, then buy a gear puller to get the handwheel off, then an M16 x 150 bolt as a drift, next buy a bearing puller; inboard bearing is a double something or other and has to be ordered in etc etc. Removing the bearing may trash the vacuum seal so that may have to be replaced.

Now I remember why I work in wood.