japanese wood turning

[hughie]

Hi,

I have read in several places about the differences of traditional Japanese wood turning and todays methods. Apparently the lathe is different around the tool rest area.
But to date I have not found any pics or descriptions of this style of wood turning.

Has anybody come across this in their travels? Have any pics or links?

hughie

[cedar n silky]

Hi,

I have read in several places about the differences of traditional Japanese wood turning and todays methods. Apparently the lathe is different around the tool rest area.
But to date I have not found any pics or descriptions of this style of wood turning.

Has anybody come across this in their travels? Have any pics or links?

hughie
Hughie. I don't have any links or or knowledge of japanese wood turning, but do own a superb lidded wooden bowl my mother gave to me, that was made in japan. It is one of my fovourite peices, and i will put a photo up tommorow if you like?
Cheers:)

[TTIT]

Hughie - there was an article in 'Woodturning' magazine a while back about it. Their lathes are so very different from ours in so many ways. What I found odd is that the turners seem to be sort of ignored in the scheme of things as mere 'artisans' I think the word is. It is the laquerer who is held in high regard and gets all the credit. Sux eh!:( I'll see if I can find the article for you.

PS: Broken 5mm tap - end trashed - start again - hard stuff to thread!!:o

[hughie]

PS: Broken 5mm tap - end trashed - start again - hard stuff to thread!!

:D

Cedar the pic would be good, thanks


TTIT,
:D your not alone with the broken tap....gotta be new taps and way deeper hole than needed so as to get it out a bit easier.

The article on the japanese would be great, have not found any worth while links on the net as yet.
hughie

[Mikko]

Last time I was in Tokyo I accidentaly found an exhibition of laquer (Urushi) ware from Yamanaka. They had plenty of photos showing the process. Also, some pretty nice pieces, but in all honesty...nothing on the level of best OZ,EU,US based turners.
The point in Japan is indeed the finish (Urushi), not the piece itself.
I did see few very nice wall platters that were turned of VERY figured timber. Also, there are HUGE bowls that are actually dough bowls for making Soba (buckwheat) noodles.
In this kind of pieces natural coloured Urushi is often used. It is quite dark, but even after three applications the figure can be seen well.
I actually think that "clear" Urushi enhances the grain very much like danish oil.

Lathes seemed to be modified western makes. Tools are apparently made by the turners. Chucks are often just simple jam chucks.

The two part article in Woodturning has quite a bit of info in it, but does not go into detail as much as most of us would hope.

So....Next time I'm in Japan I try to find my way to Yamanaka and see a bit more.

I feel that Japanese are superior in many fields of woodworking.
In woodturning this is most certainly not the case. Despite this the tradition is quite interesting.

I bought two books on Urushi from Japan. Both have some stuff on turning, but mostly concentrate on the "magic goo".
I almost bought some Urushi too for some tests. After hearing the temperature needs, drying period, amazing ability to catch dust etc. I gave it up.
It's nice stuff, but I rather go with natural oils and waxes that are also more traditional to my part of the globe.

Oh....they do make some nice turned boxes too.
However....I know many "western" turners who can turn even nicer ones.
The Japanese box designs with double lids is something I was pretty damn fast to adopt. :cool:

Mata ne,
Mikko

[cedar n silky]

:D

Cedar the pic would be good, thanks

hughie
Hi Hughie
Idon't know what wood it is made from, its not very heavy but not as soft as our cedar. The knob and a little band around the rim seem to be lacquered, but the rest of the finish is satin- just buffed and stained maybe.
I would love to know how you get those lovely dappled patterns and the little spiraled tooling in the centre. Any ideas?:rolleyes:
I hope they attatch OK- here goes
Cheers

[DanP]

I think I'm turning japanese,
I think I'm turning japanese,
I really think so. :D

[RETIRED]

Ahso.;)

[cedar n silky]

Hi Hughie
Idon't know what wood it is made from, its not very heavy but not as soft as our cedar. The knob and a little band around the rim seem to be lacquered, but the rest of the finish is satin- just buffed and stained maybe.
I would love to know how you get those lovely dappled patterns and the little spiraled tooling in the centre. Any ideas?:rolleyes:
I hope they attatch OK- here goes
Cheers

Further to that, the size is about 170mm diameter and 75 mm high.
The little lacquered knob fell off, so i scratched under it and it may be a pine. I know, having lived in Japan for 10 years as a child, that they are big on cedar, but there probably isnt much left!
I know all there "shoji doors" (sliding) used to be made of cedar (and rice paper) beutifully made.
I had a freind up here where I live, who used to supply rosewood chopsticks and ricebowls to the japanese market, and did very well out of it. Cheers:D

[hughie]

I would love to know how you get those lovely dappled patterns and the little spiraled tooling in the centre. Any ideas?:rolleyes:



cedar, The patterns should not be too hard to duplicate. The scroll finish would a small gouge or a fine radius scraper and slower the rpms down then a steady cut from the centre.
The dappled finish check out the link below for textured tooling and spirals
http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/
The dappled effect you can make easily your self, its largely a flexible thin piece of steel ie spring steel you will see what I mean from the link.

hughie

[Cliff Rogers]

The guest turners at the Proserpine Turnout last year were Japanese.
Very different.

[cedar n silky]

cedar, The patterns should not be too hard to duplicate. The scroll finish would a small gouge or a fine radius scraper and slower the rpms down then a steady cut from the centre.
The dappled finish check out the link below for textured tooling and spirals
http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/
The dappled effect you can make easily your self, its largely a flexible thin piece of steel ie spring steel you will see what I mean from the link.

hughie
Thanks Hughie. I checked out the link, and I finish work next week and I will be "experimenting" big time on my new VL 175! Also will be trying out those brass fillers that have been discussed on the forum. Thanks for your help.:)

[ticklingmedusa]

Hai ichiban...
Alan Lacers turning video "Getting Started Right" has footage of a traditional Japanese reciprocating lathe in action.
www.alanlacer.com (http://www.alanlacer.com)

[powderpost]

Saw a Japanese turner at work in Proserpine last year. Sadly he couldn't speak English. He was using a "lathe" that consisted of essentially a headstock and no tail stockand no bed. The "bed" as we know it, was a flat bench surface. Their work seems to be done solely with a 'jam' or cup chuck, or a scroll chuck. They make their own tools from round bar stock. The shape is similar to a shepherds crook, some with variations. The tools are drawn, groung and tempered as necessary. The "tool rest" is a free standing movable "hurdle" shape, with one end about 100mm high and the other end about 150mm. The tool is hung over the tool rest and cuts below centre in about the 4 o'clock position. Almost exactly opposite to what we would normally do. Interestingly I made a so called Japanese mushroom top for him to see what would happen. He recognised it and tried to make one but couldn't do it. Maybe he didn't have the appropriate tool there. The process was very different and I failed dismally at an attempt to make a bowl.
Jim

[Cliff Rogers]

Saw a Japanese turner at work in Proserpine last year. Sadly he couldn't speak English. ....

Yeap, they are the ones I mentioned.
There were 2 of them & there was an interpreter there for one day.

[TritonJapan]

There doesn't seem to be as many turners per head of woodworkers in Japan as there is in Australia, Europe or the states.

I put this down to a few main things.

First is the lack of space. Lathes tend to be fairly space hungry. Second is the lack of turned features in Japanese architecture and design.

Most Japanese design is simple and consists of very straight, crisp edges. Often these are offset by the natural shape of the outside of the tree remaining in tact.

The majority of turning that I see in Japan is of bowles, not much in the way of legs.

As for an earlier comment about there being not much Ceder in Japan, the stuff is like a weed here. Plantations of the stuff all over the country. Causes Hay fever and because there is so much of it, the plantations are not getting much for their hard work.

Has got to be something in variety, and in sticking to local species. The ceder forests are as good as dead. Well, everything but the ceders that is. No undergrowth, dark, drab and inhospitible to almost any other species of flora or fauna.

Think you will find that the people who apply the laquer are the more highly regarded here. The laquer is (was) used on more things than just turned bowles.

As Japan has a long history of hard, sharp blades, their carving is often excellent as too are the planes and chisels.

Pity that the use of Japanese hand planes is seeming to drop off. THey have a great feel to them. Seems more natural to pull the plane toward you than to push it away.

Steve

[cedar n silky]

[

As for an earlier comment about there being not much Ceder in Japan, the stuff is like a weed here. Plantations of the stuff all over the country. Causes Hay fever and because there is so much of it, the plantations are not getting much for their hard work.
Steve[/quote]

Thanks Steve for the info above. I was in Japan as a child over 40 years ago, so I wasn't taking much notice of the trees I must admit! Do the Japanese use a reciprocating lathe to get the patterns used on my earlier posting (photos of lidded bowl) as one post suggested, or are they done with chisels? I have included a picture of another bowl I happen to have, made of laminated bamboo. I am not sure of it's origin although I suspect they are churned out on mass in China. My freind who bought it for me (she knows I have an obscession for bamboo) says she didn't pay much for it! I have also included this lidded bamboo box, which I also suspect is churned out on mass from china.
I din't pay for the spider! Cheers;)

[OGYT]

That lid is truly interesting; it looks as though it was eccentrically turned.
Neat stuff.

[hughie]

The majority of turning that I see in Japan is of bowles, not much in the way of legs.


Steve,
Thanks for that a good insite to whats going on in Japan.

Becuse the method or style of wood tunring is significantly different to that which is done in the west. I am interested in seeing a Japanese lathe and or some clear idea of what the techinque is. The idea being we maybe able to lean something from them, and it was to this end I started the post.
hughie

[TritonJapan]

Hughie and Cedar,

One of the stores I sell Triton through supplies wood for turners. Next time I am there I will see what I can find out about Japaese turners.

The lathes that I see at the DIY show here and in some stores are fairly small western types that manufacturers try and sell here to little avail.

If you visit www.off.co.jp (http://www.off.co.jp) you may be able to drift for some time through one supplier's goods.

To get an idea of what the site is saying, either copy and paste the text you are interested in, or the site address into www.rikai.com (http://www.rikai.com)

This site will not translate for you, it will give you the dictionary reading for the words you point your mouse to.

Off Corporation imports and retails tools and so they are not a Japanese tool specialist. They are one of Japan's better supplied outlets though.

Watanabe-san the owner built a yacht years ago and bought most of his tools from the States as they were not available in Japan. Hence his hobby became his business too.

Will try and send through more info as I find it.

Kindest regards from Japan

Steve

[TritonJapan]

Just did a quick google for wood lathe in Japanese.

Found these sights. Thought there might be something interesting among them for those willing to browse around looknig for pictures.

Steve

http://www1.odn.ne.jp/woodturning/
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/ebonysuwa193/
http://www10.ocn.ne.jp/~kouzou/page85.html
http://www008.upp.so-net.ne.jp/d-28/woodturning.htm
http://www.dify.net/kankou/detail/?pid=225

Couldn't come up with anything really traditional, even though searching for traditional wood lathe.

Guess the traditional craftsmen are not on the internet too much yet.

Steve

[hughie]

Triton,

I appreciate all your efforts, I could not find any pics of traditional turners on the net either.
Checked out the links, not sure I would want to get involved with the home made lathe and the stanley knife tools...............:eek: ....:D

thanks
hughie

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

To get an idea of what the site is saying, either copy and paste the text you are interested in, or the site address into www.rikai.com (http://www.rikai.com)

This site will not translate for you, it will give you the dictionary reading for the words you point your mouse to.

Babel fish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) is simple to use and does a reasonable translation. It does occasionally come up with some clangers though. :D

A handy bookmark. ;)

Another japanese woodies' site worth looking at, although hardly traditional, is Tadatoshi Manabe's (http://homepage3.nifty.com/manasan/english/english.htm). I'd feel right at home in his workshop and have pinched sone of his ideas. :)