New Router

[Angelo]

Hello everyone,

I am about to buy my first router and did have my mind set on the Makita 3612c. After reading the forom however it seems that everyone has nothing but praise for the Hitachi TR12. I have seen the M12v which I am guessing is the similar to the TR12 but with variable speed like the 3612c. I am relatively new to woodwork though am very enthusiastic and would like to spend the money to buy something worthwile the first time around if possible. I saw an M12v in Canberra for $463 which is a little cheaper than the close to $500 at Bunnings and Hardware house have it for. Does anybody have some comments and/or experience with this router?
I intend on mounting it in a Triton 2000 workcentre fitted with the router table.


------------------
Ang

[bobmundy]

Angelo.
Regardless of the details of which router, remember the promise of Bunnings. "If you find a better price, we wont just match it...we'll beat it by 10%".
Not to be sneezed at!!


------------------
Bob-
You won't get a second chance to make a good first impression...

[Iain]

My TR12 is close to it's 20th birthday and still going strong, has succeeded in burning out two of them but I suspect he uses them for 10 hours a day. A good robust machine and pointed out several posts ago that the handles can be reveresed to make them more ergonomically efficient.
I also have a smaller Makita which is good although for what you are talking about I think the Hitachi would be the better option. Do you really need the variable speed?
Look at www.ehardware.com.au (http://www.ehardware.com.au) and compare the prices to Bunnings, if they are cheaper present them wuith a printout and get another 10% off.
Ouch, just looked at ehardware, $525.65. Still shop around........


[This message has been edited by Iain (edited 12 November 2000).]

[John Saxton]

G,day Angelo,The routers you mentioned are both equally up to the task of doing what you want.
The concensus of opinion though lies with the Hitachi which is evident by the amount of advertising they don't have to do, unlike others trying to sell their product.
Spending the money if you can afford it on a good router now, will save you heaps of worries later on in maintenance, and if you can afford the soft start variable speed do so that is if you intend to rout panels or materials that require a larger bit and a slower speed.
There is a lot of valuable input from folk in the previous posts within this forum which augers from good experience and is better than any amount of advertising.
There are a couple of routing magazines around that offer advice and whilst good in content are British in bias.
The other points to remember in the purchase of a router is that while you are mounting it in a worktop ...you may also want o use it freehand so when you go around the tool shops feel the bulk of the routers to find the comfort zone you require if using for an extended period in free hand.Also consider dust control when doing your research!
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gifhope this helps in some way.

------------------
Johnno

[This message has been edited by John Saxton (edited 12 November 2000).]

[Iain]

Re John and dust control, the Hitachi has a dust collector port available at about $30, the Makita is closer to $50.

[Rod Smith]

Hi Angelo. I said pretty much all I have to say on the subject in the previous thread, but will repeat, I have used and own both brands and various models, Hitachi are better. Thats a great price for an M12v. Happy hunting

[Angelo]

Thanks everyone for your input. It confirms what I already thought to be the case. I'm considering the variable speed because I do want to use some of the larger bits and there aren't too many cheaper routers that seem up to it. I appreciate the comments about handling as the one I handled in the shop was right up there. Perhaps a smaller and cheaper router may come along down the line.
Anyone have any preferences regarding router bits? I can appreciate CMT though they are fairly expensive. Does anyone have any preferences for either Carbi-tool or even Triton?
Once again, thanks very much for your replies.

[Iain]

Angelo, glad we were of assistance and here we go again. CMT bits have two MAJOR problems
1. They are an excellent blade and perform extremely well.
2. CMT know this.
Carbitool are not bad and Carbatec www.carbatec.com.au (http://www.carbatec.com.au) have their own blades which they claim are better than carbitool.
I bought a pack of craftline at Bunnings and apart from not cutting terribly well the shaft sizes are all over the place, 1/4" and some fit well and others need a hammer to get them in. NOt impressed.
I like CMT but without trying to be smug, I am able to afford them, they are expensive but good. Carbitool I have found are quite acceptable. It's a bit like comparing a BMW to a Ford. Whoops, upset some out there, I don't have a Ford.
I think the major brands are all good but to date I have not tried Jesada and I cannot comment on their performance, someone else may comment on their quality but I do intend trying them in the future.

[Shane Watson]

One Word - Jesada (http://www.Jesada.com.au)

Only problem is that there not Australian.... Something I look past purerly for the service Peter provides for us in Oz.

Cheers....

[John Saxton]

Hi Angelo,A few points to consider if I may.
Consider when buying cutting tools as in your case, router bits it is as Iain likened to, either buying an expensive car to a cheaper car and whilst both will give you good service they may not go the distance if you buy the cheaper model.
Are you in all likelyhood considering possible production runs in the future and if so, spend the extra money on a better class bit that will have a better quality tungsten and will retain a keen edge longer than the cheaper ones coming out of Taiwan/China?
But if you are one of the many guy,s around the country who only occassionally venture into woodwork then the cheaper ones will save you money.
Jesada,CMT,are foreign makes of exceptional quality and with the OZ dollar in the state it is,are becoming expensive.Carbi-Tool bits are locally produced in Melbourne and also good value for your $ with a reasonable edge being able to be maintained with the appropriate diamond sharpeners.
I have nearly all Carbi-Tool bits with the odd CMT or Dimar another top quality bit from Germany,but for the main the Carbi-Tool will serve you well.
What it all boils down to is your needs whether for casual or continual usage.
Carba-Tec import their bits being CMT and the cheaper Taiwanese type so if dealing with them you would have to specify.
Jesadas website at www.jesada.com.au (http://www.jesada.com.au) can also help you.
The shaft size is also a point to consider as Bits are now in predominance with either a metric size or a imperial size and this is where you need to check the router that you buy for the size collets so that you dont end up with the wrong kind.
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif hope this helps in some small way.


------------------
Johnno

[Tim Sloan]

John
Thanks for supporting an Australian Company. Just about all router bits sold in Australia buy all the major companies will be imperial shank sizes eg:1/2" and 1/4" This is also what most of the power tool companies supply there machines to suit. Oh and buy the way Carb-i-tool is not just found here in oz but also in many other countries as well!

Tim

[Angelo]

Thanks to everyone for their answers to my questions.

I ended up buying an M12V from Fischer Discounts last Thursday where I had seen it on the shelf for $463. I was going to try the 10% discount thing at Hardware House up the road however it was listed as being on sale and didn't like my chances. Without any prompting howver the salesman offered it to me for $450 so I took it.
Thanks for the advice about bits. I will probably buy some Carbi bits whilst I am learning. I will be going to Italy at the end of next year and may see what they are worth over there.
Iain, your'e right about the the BMW/Holden comparison. I have had an 85' 323i for the last 13 years and it has lasted the time and distance much better than a commodore I used to own.
Thanks everyone.

------------------
Ang

[Iain]

Thanks Ang, I drive a Landcruiser but I have a Z3 which takes 20 years off me most weekends http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

[John Saxton]

Hi Angelo,A good choice with the MV12 router and practical to boot compared with others in its class. I'm sure it will offer years of good use for you.
For mounting on a router table you would be hard pressed to find a router of this class to fulfil your needs,whilst also having a comfortable router that can be readily applied to plunge action needs.
I didn't want to sway you in your choice because a mans tools are a personal choice but it goes without saying that if models like the TR12 or MV12 are around for better than a decade or so then it means that they are like Henry Ford in that they got something right for a change.
Look around or ask your tool supplier how often other makes have changed over the years attempting to "get it right" but still not coming up to a standard and price that 'mister average' can afford.
One of my local blokes had the Hitachi display trailer down from Perth over the weekend which precipitated a good response from the public with an increased interest in the product.
I have just bought an Hitachi rotary polisher solely on the strength of their reputation and the fact that tools of their making within my possession have stood the test of time having been well and truly used to the max without a hint of trouble.
By the way this is not an AD but a pat on the back from all us guys for getting it right for our dollar by no means an easy task these days!
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Johnno

[Rod Smith]

G'day
Who ever mentioned the Ford comparison,I'VE GOT THE FORD! However, I also drive an M12V, not bad eh. Great price on that router Angelo. If you want a bunch of cheaper bits to get started I would recommend the carba-tec. I bought a couple of their sets and found them great value and had no problems with the quality. When I have required larger or individual bits I have bought carbi-tool. Did by 1 Linbide bit, never again. See ya. Rod

[Iain]

I think JOhn Saxton summed it up pretty well with the lack of advertising on the part of Hitachi although I once met someone in Bunnings who stated that they were a bit agricultural. What I notice with Bunnings staff is that the ones who seem to know what they are talking about suddenly pop up in a respectable tool shop within six months.... the rest stay on and babble on about something of which they have no knowledge.
I have heard some 'specialists' state that 2hp is too big for freehand and I think it was once addressed in this forum. Better put my TR12 away and go and get a 400w Ozito http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/frown.gif
Sounds like you got a good deal anyway and best of luck....how many gears on a M12V ? http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/wink.gif
Rod, what are Linbide and whats the problem?

[This message has been edited by Iain (edited 21 November 2000).]

[Rod Smith]

Hi Iain. Linbide are made in New Zealand, I bought a large chamfer bit, the first one was so far out of balance made the old TR12 feel like a jack hammer. They replaced it, the new one was slightly better, just made sure I quickly got it into the wood to slow it down. Since I got the VS routers its better but still unpleasant to use. It's not that big that I should have to use VS for it though.
I also have 1 linbide saw blade (14")which I bought for my 15" mitre saw, after I replaced all the bearings and set up the saw a couple of times, I realised it was the ***&^g blade stuffing up the cut. Took it for several re hammers and the saw sharpeners said they had never struck (pun) a blade that they couldn't hammer out, till this one of course. Maybe I'm just unlucky? But a mate said he wouldn't buy Linbide again either.
I'll see if I can still lift my routers, I never realised they were too big.
Checkya. Rod

[John Saxton]

It goes without saying that if you want good tools or their pieces that go with them talk to the guys that sell them on a professional basis or those that use them on a regular basis.
Personally I find if you talk to the professional tool sellers who attend courses run by the manufacturers have a better idea than the guy selling from the chain hardware shops,its an interesting exercise to go from one to the other just to find out the varying views even on the same product.
But of course you have to play on against the other when it comes down to your pocket and I'm no less guilty of this exercise than any other.
As far as the router bits go I too have a couple of cheap sets similar to what Carbi-Tec import but I dont put much store in their quality and adherence to maintaining an edge as opposed to some others that are available.They are OK providing you know your tool limitations and life expectancy of these bits.
I think the Linbide bit was a brand either produced in NZ or imported into NZ under that name.I may be wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me if this is so,
the quality I cannot attest to not having used them.
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

[Sandy Johnston]

Thems you want is:-...
Linbide Tools
126 Captain Springs Rd
Te Papapa
Auckland
New Zealand
0064 0-9-636 4121
Facsimile 0064 0-9-636 8851
The company produces a brochure which list a large variety of products.
I have not used any yet but 'am looking at some of their routerbits.