Help on green Liquid Amber ice bucket

[Bodgy]

Just spent the arvo turning a bit of Liquid Amber. A number of issues arose, bearing in mind that I'm relatively new to turning, have an el cheapo lathe and tools, and the LA was only 2 months ago proudly dropping its leaves and spiky seed thingos on our street.

Be nice.

1. The blank was about195mm in diameter. I set the speed to 850 rpm, whilst the outside turned down easily, I really struggled hollowing it out. Too slow?

2. I found cutting the lid off with the parting tool impossible. Could only get about 30mm in, and had to saw it off. Technique, tools?

3. What were hairline cracks opened up and gaped by the end. I filled with epoxy and clamped the thing up overnight. What should I have done?

4. Once epoxy is dry, how do I dry it out for finishing? Microwave? The walls are 15mm thick, the lid solid 35mm, and I left a big base around 70mm.

5. Intend to just Sponsors wax outside, any suggested finishes for the inside? Not that worried about minor toxicity, as only forseeable usage is when I find a new Single Malt and my mates help in the evaluation process.

Incidentally, whilst my tools are rubbish, I did sharpen regularly, without much effect. Am I just too impatient? I noticed that they did get pretty hot tho.

[Auzzie turner]

Going to end grain? normal if its hard to hollow out. Sounds like your turning a box. Try freezing the item for 3 days, and then try tuning it afterewards to finish it. Try using an oil for the inside. The chisels you are using is carbon steel. They will get hot, and you will need to sharpen them often.

Kepp going,
And a pic needed,


Regards.........Joash

[rsser]

Can you be more specific?

Q1 ... 'struggled' as in what exactly was happening?

Q2, ditto, what happened? binding? (ie. sides of parting tool got brown) did you start with a tool fresh off the grinder?

Q3: yes; the wood is drying as you turn it. I use cheap superglue to fill the checks and a bit beyond. Otherwise, just stop and let the wood cool; wrap it in plakky whenever you're not turning it or it'll go out of round. When you've done, if nec. run some more glue in and quickly coarse sand with piece spinning to force dust into the cracks to make your own glue/filler.

4. When it's still wet after shaping it can be finished on the lathe then and there. I like nitrocellulose sanding sealer for green timber.
But if it has a lid, drying will send the pieces out of true and a tight lid won't fit any longer. Solution: sloppy fit, or rough turn and let dry, then finish turn and finish.

Yep, tools get hot. You're taking wood fibres heading fast in one direction, slicing them off and sending in a diff direction. How would you feel?

Hope this helps.

[Bodgy]

Pics will follow, still clamped up - slow epoxy.

You must all promise not to laugh.

Rsser

1. Struggled means I was only getting sort of dust, more or less like snow. But for the different colour I looked like I'd just come in off the sloppes. I was expecting shavings, but I guess its cause its end grain. Took at least an hours to hollow it out.

2. The parting tool just wouldn't cut. It didn't bind as I used both, first the sort of half diamond head, then the complete diamond head. The first to make room for the second. I did sharpen, but on an oil stone, not the grinder. You suggest grinder?

Finally Ern, how ywould feel if I was one of the tools? Inadequate, mate, inadequate!

Thanks

[Hickory]

Liquid Amber? are you talking of Liquidambar styraciflua? :confused: That is Sweet gum. shouldn't be acting that way. My guess is that you have two things working against you. Dull tools and toolrest too high. With a parting tool , if it is too high then the piece rubs the face of the lower grind and makes more friction than chips. Also if the tool is to high on the inside... using a scraper the wood approaches the edge and rubs the flat of the tool rather than shear the edge. With a bowl gouge the wood rides the bevel instead of the edge. All of these would produce powder and friction rather than slice a curl.

My suggestion would be to lower the approach. Remember that the suggestion of "at or near center" is relative to how tall you are and the height of the lathe. If you are of shorter stature then you will point the tool upward and need to lower the rest. It is not the rest that should be at or near the center, it is the cutting edge that needs to be at or near the center.

Am I confusing? or am I wrong about the wood as well?

[Bodgy]

Thanks Hickory, correct on both counts, although I've never heard Liquid Amber described as Sweet Gum before, the Latin generic name is correct

I moved the lathe outside to avoid the mess in the shed, and the outside bench is about 6" higher than the usual bench.

Probably right about the dull tools, I'll use the grinder not the oil stone next time.

[Hickory]

I'll use the grinder not the oil stone next time.

I grind little as possible and prefer the oilstone to tune up my tools, But most agree that the Burr is what does the cutting with a round nosed Scraper, I tend to believe the keen edge is the cutter not the burr. as the burr is only providing a weak false edge. Most argue the other point so I button my lip and agree. for fast cutting the burr will surfice but I prefer the keen edge for smooth results. Just a matter of preference.

You grew shorter than used to be... and didn't adjust your stance or rest to accomidate the difference. Little neuances make a big difference. I first noticed the difference while teaching different sized youths. Each was a different stance and approached the lathe differently and the effects of shorter students was as you discribed. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[hughie]

I grind little as possible and prefer the oilstone to tune up my tools, But most agree that the Burr is what does the cutting with a round nosed Scraper, I tend to believe the keen edge is the cutter not the burr. as the burr is only providing a weak false edge. Most argue the other point so I button my lip and agree. for fast cutting the burr will suffice but I prefer the keen edge for smooth results. Just a matter of preference.


Hickory,
I too have noticed this, the burr at best can only be a temp edge. It is perhaps because unlike carbon steel HSS has a coarse structure and so fine edge is not available like CT.Thus the burr gives a hook effect to the cutting edge, unfortunately short lived. It is perhaps some of the success behind the Proforme and Munro tools in their ability to cut well.

With this in mind I have made and used Silver Steel cutting tools. Hardened to the point of max brittleness/hardness. [don't drop em they will break :( ] Then shaped on the grinder and finally diamond honed to a razor edge.

Performance: is good especially on green timber, fine slicing with a very clean cut. Good for finishing, leave the rough out to HSS or Tungsten tips.
Dry hard woods forget it 50/50 grind turn time :( But can be used for dry timber finishing with good results, fine light cuts.

Draw backs: Does not like long over hangs :eek: have to get the tool rest in close. Will require more trips to the grinder on hard dry timber. Grind with care do not let the colour change, colour change = softening of the steel. You must have a water container close by for cooling

Benefits: Cheap material cost, simple manufacturer, hardening can be done in the shed with blow torch and a bucket of water. Very fine edges can obtained, good for finishing. The fine edge has a good effect on tear out type timbers.

hughie

[rsser]

Bodgy, yep, sounds like dull tools. Sharpen often on the grinder so you know what a fresh ground tool can do. Then you'll quickly see when they're dull and you're having to work too hard.

A sharp bowl gouge should eg. be producing pig tails when cutting on or near the very inside of the flute. A sharp scraper should produce fine ribbons easily. Ditto the parting tool.

[Bodgy]

Thanks all

No pics as yet as the bowl part exploded on me today. One of the innocent looking cracks, that I didn't epoxy up, gave way whilst on the lathe. They do move fast when they part company!

However, not to be deterred, its in clamps again, epoxied.

Finished the lid, and the LA looks quite amazing, lots of figure when waxed and polished, and I left a streak of the inner bark on for effect.

I'll put up some pics when the whole thing's complete.

Ern, I'm going to bite the bullet and get some mid range HSS chisels.

[rsser]

Way to go Bodgy.

Not too exxy and you can practice your sharpening technique to your heart's content.