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cedar n silky
8th October 2006, 07:32 PM
I turned these 2 bowls (rather unsuccesfully), but am intrigued by the species and growth rings (very close on one, far apart on the other- climate variation and speed of growth i imagine?) (But they might be totally different species?)! Having been a builder and avid collector of off cuts and left overs from many jobs over the years, I thought it was time to have a go at these!;) They were "bone" dry, and were as HARD to turn!! A fair bit of tear out, even with, what I thought, were sharp tools! A fair bit of end grain checking also!
I don't know if I will have another go at them, maybe cut them for kids blocks and the like. Pretty grain though. I was hoping from some input from our American/ Canadian forum members also, Might be a trick to turning this wood?:confused:

rsser
8th October 2006, 07:40 PM
No trick Cedar. It's hard timber to turn well because of the diff densities in the growth rings. You've done well to get any kind of result.

cedar n silky
8th October 2006, 07:46 PM
No trick Cedar. It's hard timber to turn well because of the diff densities in the growth rings. You've done well to get any kind of result.
Better stick to what I know- Rosewood, Camphor and Silky Oak!!:D :D Oh and Red Ash!:D But I'm open to suggestions!:)

Toolin Around
8th October 2006, 08:06 PM
I've turned tonnes of the wood (well maybe not that much but a real shyte load). With grain like that (bit coarse) it won't lend itself well to complex shapes or thin walls. Keep the tools real sharp (honing or buffing will help) and scraping should be avoided. I liked it as a cabinet wood when rift sawn or for legs and posts... but not as a bowl wood.

cedar n silky
8th October 2006, 08:16 PM
I've turned tonnes of the wood (well maybe not that much but a real shyte load). With grain like that (bit coarse) it won't lend itself well to complex shapes or thin walls. Keep the tools real sharp (honing or buffing will help) and scraping should be avoided. I liked it as a cabinet wood when rift sawn or for legs and posts... but not as a bowl wood.
Can you enlighten me on the term "rift sawn"??:confused:

Skew ChiDAMN!!
8th October 2006, 08:20 PM
I've made some pieces from Oregon, nothing flash but I was (and still am) quite proud of the final results.

As has been said, there's no real trick to it, beyond a lot of care. Sharp tools, a minimum of scraping and avoid sanpaper unless you're specifically after the "ridged" effect.

One thing I have found though, is there's little lateral strength. What this means is, if you turn your bowls thin enough then they'll tend to fracture easily at the slightest knock. :( The pictured bowl's about 2yo and 3-4mm thick and was broken just recently when someone carelessly picked up a piece next to it. [sigh] Just as well I never got around to finishing it, eh? :)

On the other hand, it works really, really well for "chunky" bowls, the grain is well suited to that sort of thing.

TTIT
9th October 2006, 12:37 AM
Hmmmmm - interesting! I thought 'oregon' was red. I was doubting my old-man's memory when he handed me a lump of red, heavily 'ringed' wood he called "red-pine". I said "oregon" :rolleyes:. He said "red-pine" :mad:. I left it at that but it's dark red and has very defined growth rings. Horrible to turn if you don't get the slice with the skew right first shot! Anyone know if they're 2 different timbers????:confused::)

tashammer
9th October 2006, 01:15 AM
one might be oregon and the othe radiata but i wouldn't place bets on it. the scent of the wood ought to give it away.

cedar n silky
9th October 2006, 08:27 AM
one might be oregon and the othe radiata but i wouldn't place bets on it. the scent of the wood ought to give it away.
Definately not Radiata- Know Radiata well. I even know the history of the tight grained one. It came out of an old "buttery" in Nimbin. Odly a lot of the original Nimbin shop buildings had Oregon in the roof sections. The garage had long roof trusses made of Oregon. I presume the timber was a "backload" when the steamers took wool or whatever OS.:)

rsser
9th October 2006, 08:48 AM
We see a lot of 'red pine' down here in domestic doors and linings dating back to the 20s and 30s. Some folk mistake it for red cedar. It's very much darker in colour than oregon.

Yeah, old oregon from Canada has much tighter growth rings and is better to work for furniture.

bitingmidge
9th October 2006, 09:11 AM
Can you enlighten me on the term "rift sawn"??:confused:

http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/display_article.asp?ID=357

Cheers,

P

cedar n silky
9th October 2006, 09:19 AM
Thanks Bitmidge!:)

TTIT
9th October 2006, 09:25 AM
We see a lot of 'red pine' down here in domestic doors and linings dating back to the 20s and 30s. Some folk mistake it for red cedar. It's very much darker in colour than oregon.

That sounds like the stuff Ern - 5x2's with about 30 layers of paint from some old building in Vic'. I'll have to apoligize to the old bugger now :o.

OGYT
9th October 2006, 09:28 AM
Just lookin' at the bowls, the one on the left looks like the wood my shed doors are made from... Douglas Fir, former MKT Boxcar flooring. The bowl on the right looks a lot like Ash, to me. Or, it could be what we might refer to as Yellow Pine. Don't know... just lookin'. :o)
BTW, you've done yourself proud... nice job on hard wood to turn!

DPB
9th October 2006, 09:45 AM
There is a fair amount of confusion about Douglas Fir.

First, it is not a fir at all but a mock Hemlock. The term Oregon is not generally used in North America. I understand it to be a marketing term used by US exporters of a sub-species of Douglas fir that grows in coastal regions of Washington State and northern Oregon.

True Douglas Fir grows extensively along the southern British Columbia coast and on Vancouver Island. It is named after the Scottish Botanist, David Douglas.

It's timber characteristics are described as: hard, dense, stiff, strong and durable. It's primary use has been for structural applications, i.e. decking, bridges, docks, trestles, etc.

Douglas Fir that grows along the coastal fringes of the Canadian coastal rain forest tends to have widely separated growth rings due to the rapid growth caused by high annual rain falls up to 100" (2,500mm) per year. An "interior" species which grows inland in the drier regions where the rainfall can be as low as 15" (380mm) per year have smaller growth rings. The coastal timber is softer because of this which reflects its structural benefit of being more flexible, less brittle and more likely to flex under stress. The harder, more brittle interior timber is subject to splitting and less suitable for structural applications.

Generally, Douglas Fir is not the first choice of North American cabinet makers who prefer some of the common eastern hardwoods like Oak. However, some Canadian west coast artisans have specialised in Douglas Fir, but they are very selective of the timber they use preferring some of the slower growth, tight ringed interior species.

OGYT
9th October 2006, 10:04 AM
Thanks for a pretty informative post. Mock hemlock, eh? Does the tree know it's pretending? Just kidding. :o)

ticklingmedusa
9th October 2006, 01:50 PM
First, it is not a fir at all but a mock Hemlock. The term Oregon is not generally used in North America

This would explain the genus name: Pseudotsuga menziesii. And until I came to this down under website I
never heard Doug Fir referred to as Oregon.

My experience is the same as Mr. Skew's as far as getting a piece turned down to a flash form and approaching thiness only to have a new "window" appear.
I do like the contrast found in the grain pattern and
play with it from time to time for practice.
I never have to buy it because an inlaw saves joist cutoffs
from work.
Sharpness is the only trick I can share.

tm

Skew ChiDAMN!!
9th October 2006, 06:24 PM
I do like the contrast found in the grain pattern and play with it from time to time for practice.

Being a cheap but "difficult" timber, I reckon 'tis ideal for practising tool techniques... better than radiata. I often give it to young turners who drop in here, just to shrink their heads down a size or two. ;) And as it has it's own form of attractiveness, when you finally manage to properly finish a piece from it. it's usually a keeper.

Mr Unknown
12th October 2006, 01:51 PM
The closer the rings are in the grain the better the oregon is, i used to turn hundreds of table legs and bed posts out of oregon and i hated doing the wide ringed ones because of the tear out you would be sanding for ages. You get alot less tear out on the closer grained timber so if your gonna get some get the close grained stuff its alot better. Also the knots in this wood are a real pain to turn, very hard and makes the tool wanna grab all the time, and ive been covered in sap many times by oregon from hitting a sap pocket, and its sticky stuff.

hughie
12th October 2006, 02:15 PM
I turned these 2 bowls (rather unsuccesfully), but am intrigued by the species and growth rings (very close on one, far apart on the other- climate variation and speed of growth i imagine?) (But they might be totally different species?)! Having been a builder and avid collector of off cuts and left overs from many jobs over the years, I thought it was time to have a go at these!;) They were "bone" dry, and were as HARD to turn!! A fair bit of tear out, even with, what I thought, were sharp tools! A fair bit of end grain checking also!
I don't know if I will have another go at them, maybe cut them for kids blocks and the like. Pretty grain though. I was hoping from some input from our American/ Canadian forum members also, Might be a trick to turning this wood?:confused:
[/QUOTE]

Cedar,

Have had a go my self, razor sharp tools are the way to go. We used to see some of it from Canada years ago, very close growth rings and quite tough. It'll sand or shot blast up well to give a weathered look.

But you can play with the grain and laminating to get some interesting effects. I got the pics off a Japanese turners site...dunno where it is now tho'

tashammer
13th October 2006, 12:46 AM
Hughie
Those bowls are quite striking to look at. I wonder if there was any rationale as to the way the layers were glued together or whether it was potluck as to how it turned out? Whatever, they turned out well, don't you think?

ian
13th October 2006, 12:57 AM
I turned these 2 bowls [and] am intrigued by the species and growth rings (very close on one, far apart on the other- climate variation and speed of growth i imagine?) (But they might be totally different species?)!
snip
They were "bone" dry, and were as HARD to turn!! A fair bit of tear out, even with, what I thought, were sharp tools! A fair bit of end grain checking also!if you've had the spieces for a while, it could easily be that one is old growth (closely spaced growth rings) the other regrowth/plantation timber.
I understand that most "Oregon" sold these days is regrowth, but if you're really lucky there'll be some old growth in a pack

ian

hughie
13th October 2006, 01:03 AM
Those bowls are quite striking to look at. I wonder if there was any rationale as to the way the layers were glued together or whether it was potluck as to how it turned out? Whatever, they turned out well, don't you think




Tashammer,
Hard to say but being Japanese he may well have planned it. Notice how he has placed beading on the rim of the bowl and it gives a quill effect.
I agree they are very effective , so much so I kept the pics so as to have a go at doing similar.

rsser
13th October 2006, 06:19 AM
A very clever approach to making a design strength out of a materials weakness.

As for old growth Oregon, go to a timber salvage yard. It was commonly used in house framing way back when.