Magno 260 Planer/Thicknesser

[zymurgy]

Is there any reason why one would not purchase a combination machine? It seems logical to me (and I well may be wrong), that since we have a blade at the top of a thicknesser, making it accessable at the top for a planer/jointer function is quite logical.

The Dewalt 733 thicknesser is around $1095, yet the Magno 260 is $1195.00 (from WMS in Preston) and does the planer function do boot for only another $100.00.

Am I off on the wrong path here?

Any comments on the quality of this specific Magno model or the Magno name in general?

I should add that I'm a 'weekend warrior' so we are not talking production machinery here. I am also aware that you 'get what you pay for' - so it's a balance between budget and quality.

Gordon.

[Wayne Davy]

I have the Carbatec Combination Planner/Thicknesser and am very happy with it for my Weekend Warrior play time. Combos, cost less and take up half space. The only downside with combos is that you have to switch them over to do each function but I don't find this a real problem.

If you were a full time cabinet maker, you would go for two units but for us hobbists, combos are an excellent deal.

[peter mikk]

i don't know the magno, but generally combs are an exellent idea for both cost saving and floor space. everything is a compromise less space a little more time to change over. I have never owned one although i have used a few. Dust extraction i found to be the only real downside to these machines. if you aint got the space for stand alone machines, combos are really your only option. I would definatly not recomend a dewalt planer/thicknesser, a friend of mine has one of these toys ...plastic rollers plastic pulleys.

[Wayne Davy]

The Carbatec Combo (about $1100-$1000) is great and has a 4" outlet for Dust Collection which works very well in both planning and thicknessing modes.

[zymurgy]

Wayne,

Do you have a specific model # for the Carbatec Combo?

Their site is a bit confusing on combo units.

Ta.

Gordon.

[kenmil]

Is it the ML-392 ? for $1195. No picture on the web site.

[kenmil]

No, I am wrong, it is the PT-260, ($1045) visible on one of the photos in this thread.:D
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3749

[Wayne Davy]

The PT-260 (10 inch). Great unit for the money. Hare & Forbes, Timbecon, and others have their versions of it for about the same money. I just like Carbatec colours and believe the check out their suppliers a bit better (at least Brisbane office does). I picked up mine last year for just under $1K. I have seen them on special for $899 at Carbatec and H&F.

[zymurgy]

This is the Magno 260 from WMS. - Looks very similar :)


Gordon

[Wayne Davy]

These are all a ripoff of the Electa Beckum units. Appears just the stand is different.

[Dean]

Wayne, Noticed your mobile stand on your combo machine. Does that particular mobile stand work well? I want to get one for my bandsaw. I assume that is the model Carbatec sells.
What hardwood did you use?

[Wayne Davy]

Yep, Carbatec mobile stand which is actually a Delta stand (the only piece of Delta in my shop :( ). Bought it at the Carbatec sale last year for $70 and it works great. Just used "Tassy Oak" so god knows what species it really is.

[Dean]

wyane thanks. Might have to grab one when I get some spare dosh. And I'll definitely go for a PT-260 at some stage as well.

[zymurgy]

Just had a browse through a Herless Machinery Catalogue 2003 - (Hare & Forbes) and they have the exact same model as the Carbatec one called a T-260. Priced at $995.00.

A major benefit is that they are only about 10 clicks away in Clayton.

So with all the advice (special thanks to Wayne), I'll trot down and see if I can 'negotiate' to nearer their previous special price of $899.00, since the pacific peso is a little stronger.

Ta all.

Gordon.

[zymurgy]

Got the T-260 Planer Thicknesser yesterday and spent last night putting it together. The instructions and image quality, do leave something to be desired. I had this long rod with a handle on it, not mentioned anyware in instructions, figured it was to adjust the infeed tray height.

Couldn't find the on/off switch! It was neatly packaged up under the base beside motor.

It's a bloody heavy piece of machinery, I'll have to get a trolly like Wayne has.

I haven't used the machine yet, just played with setting from planer to thicknesser - it's actually quite easy and quick.

The fence mechanism, it's too finicky to get back to same position each time. But I guess I'll just check it with engineers square before each use.

Gordon.

[zymurgy]

Still problems with fence.

Found a couple of set screws (not mentioned in manual) to align outfeed rail so it's in-line with infeed. Now aligned.

Manual further stated that the blade should be no higher than 1.0mm or .4" above outfeed rail. Thought that's abit much, turned page and decimal points had moved, picture shows .01mm and .004"! It needed adjustment, now adjusted.

But I'll be dammed if I can get fence at 90 degrees reliably. Stripped fence to bare extrusion, it rocks on machine bed by about .7mm. If I align at 90 degrees near support, way out at each end. Think I'll have to pop back with this and see what H&F say.

Gordon.

[Wayne Davy]

Gordan,

Definetely take it back. My Carbatec one's fence is nice and solid and aligns perfectly everytime.

[zymurgy]

Wayne,

I downloaded the Elektra Beckum maual, has a bit more detail and clearer instructions, but even this didn't mention the grub screws for aligning the outfeed table!

Is your fence a piece of extruded aluminium?

Gordon.

[Iain]

Aaah, Glasshopper, Taiwan instusshion are the final test of your manhood.......I recall my dovetail jig with the cams for holding the boards in place, 'These Jig use cam and not screwing and you will enjoy cam more than screwing', I sort of got the message but the Ingrish is generally bloody awful.
Best of luck, and after assembling these 2 tonne monsters one is somewhat rather reluctant to take it back and start again.

[Wayne Davy]

Gordon,

Yep. I don't remember having to muck with any grub screws on the fence. I will try and have a look at mine tonight.

As for manuals - I usually just go by the pictures and forget the jinglish as it usually makes me more confused.

[Wayne Davy]

If anyone is after one of the PT-260 Type Planner/Thicknessers, I noticed that Hare & Forbes were selling their version for $795!! at the Bris. Wood Show on the weekend. I believe they have standard Show prices so check them out when your local Working With Wood show comes around.

[zymurgy]

Bastards! :)

Wayne, do you know if they have the BP-16A Bandsaw on SPECIAL as well?

Regards

Gordon.

[Wayne Davy]

It was there but I don't remember the price. Anyone else know???

[Dean]

Not me, I missed the show altogether GRRR!
Daughter was in hospital all weekend.

Dean

[Wayne Davy]

Dean,

I was keeping an eye out for you but I guess I'll put it back in now :p

Is your daughter Ok?

[Dean]

Wayne,

Yes she is out now and much better.

Guess I will have to wait until next years show now :(

[zymurgy]

I asked the sales guy here for a price of the planer/thicknesser, DC and bandsaw when I purchased. He wouldn't move on anything. I couldn't afford the lot, so settled on planer and DC.

Now I know that he could have, it leaves a bad taste.

Gordon.

[Dean]

Usually they will change their mind pretty quick when you turn around and start walking out the door saying you will buy it from the competition :)

[Wayne Davy]

I think they may be clearing them out now as they have a different model (and so does Carbatec/Timbecon) that has the same specs and looks a bit more robust.

Ah well, no matter how good a deal you strike someone will be selling it cheaper BUT only after you have bought it! I paid $1090 for mine two years ago when they were going for over $1200 and thought I had a great deal and it was for quite a while. Still happy with it though.

Gordon, did you get that fence sorted out?

[zymurgy]

Wayne,

They machined the fence castings for me and it's better. But the aluminium extrusion is the main culprit. I can set the fence at 90 in middle and the fence is out at both ends. If the fence is removed and layed on a flat surface, it rocks (as in wobble).

As an aside, I emailed Herless Machinery (with regard to the $995/$795 pricing) and had a phone call a little while ago. Basically the $ has improved a lot and they HAD manufacturers pricing support for the equipment on sale at the show.

But, they are going to look after me when I purchase the bandsaw - so my faith is restored - one happy camper.

I am looking at the BP-16A - any experience with this one?

Regards

Gordon.

[Wayne Davy]

Gordon,

Take the Fence Extrusion back!! That is not right and not what you paid for!

I have not had experience with the 16A apart from drooling over it before I bought its little brother which I am very, very happy with btw. The 16a looks like a nice solid unit for the money.

[John G]

Sorry to revert back. The original question was whether there was some compromise using a combo machine, as opposed to a dedicated joiner and thicknesser.

The answer seems to be there is no compromise, except for
a) time spent switching between modes
b) dust extraction capability
And the amount of compromise seems to depend on the model.

So overall, combos are just as good as separate machines. And are much cheaper than buying 2 machines of similar capability.

Correct conclusion?

- What about the relatively short tables and fences on combo machines? Does this make it harder to plane longer lengths?
- Is adjusting the table heights harder on a combo machine?

[zymurgy]

John G.

Time to switch modes is very quick. Dust extraction works well in both modes. (I'm referring to the T-260 types)

On my unit, only the infeed table is adjustable. Blades are set to outfeed height.

I guess that the longer the beds, the better the results.

Gordon.

[Glen Bridger]

Originally posted by zymurgy
Still problems with fence.

Found a couple of set screws (not mentioned in manual) to align outfeed rail so it's in-line with infeed. Now aligned.

Manual further stated that the blade should be no higher than 1.0mm or .4" above outfeed rail. Thought that's abit much, turned page and decimal points had moved, picture shows .01mm and .004"! It needed adjustment, now adjusted.


Gordon.

Hi Gordon,

I recently bought one of these machines too and I can't see which "Set Screws" that you mentioned. Can you provide more details.
As for the blade setting against the out feed table, there is some confussion between the manual and the SAFETY label on the machine. I intend to e-mail Hare & Forbes to get the correct info.

Thanks,

Glen

[zymurgy]

Glen,

I'll borrow the daughters digital camera and take a picture.

The manuals are really bad. I just purchased a bandsaw (BP-16A) from H&F. Section 6.1 in reference to changing the blade, states: "Make sure switch is in off position and unplug the SANDER..."

How does the manual differ from the safety label? It's all in garage at the moment.

Can you do me a favour and remove the fence (completley, it's the aluminium extrusion) from it's mounting hardware and verify if it sits flat. Mine rocks.

Gordon.

[Wayne Davy]

Gordon,

I just checked my fence (Carbatec version) and it is dead flat - no rock. Be interesting to hear if Glen's is flat.

Have you asked H&F about it - they should replace it IMO.

[zymurgy]

Glen,

Here is the setscrews in question. Mind you, not mentioned in the instruction manual, but since infeed tray is fixed, there MUST be a method to align the outfeed. These setscrews (on on each side), do just that.

Gordon.

[Glen Bridger]

Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the photos, makes things a bit clearer.
I still haven't use the machine, I've been waiting until I can clear up the Blades Setting procedure. I e-mailed Hare & Forbes and Robert Drury (Service Manager) replied to clear up some things.

The Bade is set Max 0.1mm (0.004") above the Outfeed table.

The Blade is set Max 1.0mm (0.040") protuding from the cutterblock (the spinning bit that holds the blade). This is the measurement which is stated on the SAFETY label on the side of the machine.

He said he will make the factory aware of these issues.

I just check the fence against the outfeed table and it TOO wobbles. I fitted it and set it square at one end and the other end is out. I will take it to work next week and measure the wobble on a surface table. I might even take in the infeed & outfeed tables and check them as well. It does appear that the fence is twisted.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks,

Glen

[zymurgy]

Glen,

I can set my fence square in middle and it's out at both ends. If H&F resolve this issue for you, let me know. The service bloke here in Melbourne basically said "What can you expect from an extrusion". I haven't pressed it yet, but will. Any ammunition from your end will help.

It's a shame really, as the rest of the machine is actually quite well built. But the fence is critical to performance and this is where it falls over. I had a look at a Electra Beckum machine and it also uses a aluminium extrusion.

Gordon.

[John Saxton]

Gordon, my 2c worth about your problem.
It is still under warranty so take it back and demand a replacement fence or machine...ie it it does not come up to scratch get 'em to bloody well change it...it's your $$$$ and being the buyer you're entitled to a modicum of satisfaction.
Don't take NO for an answer there is no excuse in shoddy workmanship for a dealer to pass off,they don't check it that much being only the onsellers but they DO have a responsibility to the buying pubic irrespective of the amount of trouble they have to go to....makes the difference between a good dealer and one who's not!
I've had me bitch but in your shoes and if'n it was me I'd be down there wif me problem.

Cheers:)

[Glen Bridger]

Hi Gordon,

I have sent an e-mail to Hare & Forbes informing them of this problem. I'll let you know what their reply is about the twisted fence.

Glen

[Glen Bridger]

Hi Gordon,

It took a while but I have some info for you.
Firstly, I measured the fence with a DTI on a surface table and the fence was twisted 0.025" across the diagonal.

Secondly, I contacted Hare & Forbes and Matt Hare e-mailed today saying that they have checked all their stocks and all are the same. They are contacting the factory to discuss this matter. He suggested for the mean time to attach a piece of plywood to the fence and shim it square.

So far Hare & Forbes have been very helpful. I suguest you contact Matt Hare yourself and inform him that your fence is also twisted. Here is his e-mail address

[email protected]

Hope this helps,

Glen

[zymurgy]

Glen,

Thanks for that, have duly emailed the 'me too'. :)

Gordon.

[blindbambi]

I have just purchased the combination planer thicknesser from Carba-Tec (ML-392). I waited 2 months for the back order and now its here I have the same problem with a twisted aluminium fence (not happy :mad: ). I have written to Carba-Tec (A week ago), and I am witing on a reply. Will let u no the result.

[Glen Bridger]

Hi Guys,

I have seen a picture of the Carba-tec version and it looks identical. I'm guessing that they are all made in the same factory and have been produced in the same batch.

I suspect the problem is when they have machined the 'Outfeed table clearance step' along the bottom of the fence. The machining marks on the fence indicate it has been cut with a 'fly cutter' in a milling machine while the extrusion has been held vertical. It was probably not held firmly enough and the milling cutter has twisted the extrusion.

Lets wait and see what happen next.

By the way, I have already considered other options because I thought that the fence should be as long as the table anyway. I faxed a profile of the extrusion to Capral and they do not have
anything close. He said it would be a 'special' order to the
factory. A couple of ideas are to just use a rectangle extrusion and face it with an MDF panel. The other was to use a piece of flat alloy extrusion 100mm x 10mm thick and also face it with an MDF panel. I have to check the price of each from Capral.

I let you know how I go.

Glen

[blindbambi]

I got sick of waiting for a reply about my twisted fence, so I gave Carba-tec a call today. I am sending the old fence back (reply paid :) ) and they will send me a nice straight new one. Only took a simple call on their toll free number, so I guess its thumbs up from me at this stage
Regards Blindbambi

[blindbambi]

I recieved my replacement fence today. It has taken 6 weeks, but they did replace it with no questions asked ( and they sent me one of there logo watches worth $50 as a present to say sorry for the delay). The combo machine works like a dream so I am happy and I will definately be buying from Carba-Tec again.
Regards Blindbambi

[Glen Bridger]

Hi,

Its great to hear that Carba-tec came to the party. I shimmed my fence with a piece of MDF, (which I cut longer than the fence) and it works fine. If H & Forbes don't replace it I won't loose any sleep about it.

By the way, I went to the Adelaide Timber Show on last weekend. I had a look at one of the PT 260 at the Timbecon stand and the fence on the display model also had a twisted fence.

Cheers,

Glen