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Biggles
13th May 2003, 12:13 PM
Hi all. Im in the process of making a prototype for 10 Redgum dining chairs (table comes later!) and I are unsure of which glue to use.I have read a post on this forum refering to AV203 - AV260. Has anyone here tried these as well as West System epoxy or Techniglue on Redgum?. I want these things to last and I daresay chairs would test the glue out. I get the feeling that if I use epoxy it may cause problem down the track (if??) I ever need to pull them apart and reglue them. What do the chair manufacturers use?? Will epoxy stain the timber? Would like to know the pro's and cons of each please.
Thanks in advance to any replies:)

jacko
15th May 2003, 10:35 PM
I used West Epoxy on Wooytbutt (also a eucalypt) for some coopered doors and was not all that pleased with the number of joints that inexplicablly "let go" Only thing i can think of is that the high pressure needed to pull all those joints together at once caused too much squeeze out. The glue line left was more visible than yellow PVA, being dark brown to black, even if thin.

Shane Watson
16th May 2003, 09:30 AM
The thing is with chairs is that there is a lot of movement in the joints. So its advisable to use an adhesive that allows movement. For this case AV260 is recommended on chairs (of any timber type). It is a 2 part cross linking PVA. Damn good PVA in my opinion.
AV203 will give you a better bond, but has little or no allowance of movement and will ultimately break at the glue line.The same goes for epoxy type adhesives. AV203 being a two part urea formeldahyde adhesive.
I have made or repaired thousands of chairs over the years and have had minimal return rate when using the AV260, and those that were returned with joints coming apart were caused by misuse. When I say minimal I mean less than 1%.
Another alternative is Hide glue.
CHeers

Shane.

AlexS
16th May 2003, 09:59 AM
I agree with what Shane says about AV260, although I haven't used it on Eucalypts. Also, it gives you a bit more working time, and doesn't seem to creep the way ordinary PVAs do.

AVSyntec have an excellent technical advice line if you give them a ring, and their web site also has full data sheets.

Biggles
17th May 2003, 10:12 PM
Hi Guys! Thanks for the reply's on the glue type to use. Looks like the AV260 is the go! I've just today finished the prototype (no glue!) today and working out the compound angles of the lower "H" stretcher was a bastard!!! Seems ok now tho!
As for this Avsyntec 260 just curious as to what sort of consistancy it is. Like regular PVA or thicker like Liquid nails??. Im just trying to work out how much I'd need for say 12 chairs (yes the LOML has upped the ante to 12 chairs!!!):rolleyes: Oh well gives me a bit more practice:)

Shane Watson
17th May 2003, 11:38 PM
Consider it to be like PVA....as thats what it is...If you add too much of part B then its a little thinner. The fresher the batch the better it seems to work. 12 chairs shouldn't use more than a litre not forgetting this stuff has a short shelf life once mixed.

Cheers

SHane..

Biggles
18th May 2003, 01:56 PM
Thanks Shane for your input.I'm off to get some Tuesday. I will hopefully start cutting on the weekend.:) thanks for everyone's input to this forum

AlexS
19th May 2003, 08:48 AM
If you mix up more than you need, the leftover keeps best for a couple of days on the fridge.

Biggles
19th May 2003, 06:39 PM
Sorry Alex is that "in" the fridge? I think I'll only be able to clamp a few chairs at a time due to the amount of clamps I have. BTW what is the clamping time on this stuff?

Baz
19th May 2003, 10:33 PM
Hi Biggles,
Once you have finished your 12 you should have your production line in full swing so could you tack on 8 for me .LOL.
Cheers
Barry:D

Biggles
19th May 2003, 11:08 PM
I tell ya what Barry at the rate of knots that I get jobs done these days they will be worth the equivelent of the crown jewels to me:D ....seriously i've allready made the prototype and thats the hard part out of the way.Whether you make 2 or 2000 if the components are the same (hopefully!) they should all be uniform.

By the way if anyone is considering building a chair (s), make a prototype. Ive learnt a few things and compound cuts are just one of them. Not as easy as they look when you draw it up, but once i'd done full size drawing on 3mm mdf in 3 views and made prototype you start to appreciate why chairs are a good challenge for any woodworker.

Biggles
19th May 2003, 11:15 PM
BTW i've only used scrap timber (pine,treated pine and tas oak)that was lying around for the demo but its starting to hint at whats coming with the redgum. Not a real stunner of a design but nice lines & very stable with the "H" spreader underneath and comfortable to sit in (thats the real test with the prototype....if its not comfortable to sit in for 5 mins what about 2 hours!!!) then back to the drawing board!:confused:

Shane Watson
20th May 2003, 12:00 AM
The bottle will have the recommended clamp times for different conditions. Personally I always leave things clamped overngiht.
Yes you can prolong the shelf life of the mixed product by keeping it in the fridge, though I have never done this as I always only mix enough for the job at hand, its to expensive to waste and results could be dodgy with suff thats been in the fridge a while - might pay to contact the AV Syntec Guru's and get there opinion on the fridge idea before relying on it.

Cheers...

Shane...

Oh, by the way, try making 120 chairs with only 12 clamps.....Like someone else mentioned the production line gets worked out real quick to maximise efficientcy.... :D

AlexS
20th May 2003, 08:46 AM
Sorry, yes, that was in the fridge. Wouldn't keep it more than 2 days, and leave clamped up over night - longer if it's cold weather.