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druss
15th May 2003, 10:57 PM
I have a RYOBI 3/4 h.p. plunge router set into a MK3 triton mounting plate. The problem is that even with the router fully compressed it only shows about half of the cutter through the plate hole. Now I have heard it is a no no to not have the router bit fully inserted into the machine. However, it appears the only way to obtain any depth at all is to not fully insert the bit.
The assembly is correct, in that i mean that the router is flush with the plate. The router model is HR 120.
Would greatfully appreciate your views on this.:confused:
Druss.

kenmil
15th May 2003, 11:05 PM
I can't solve your problem, but I can tell you that you should always fully insert the bit into the router and then lift out a couple of mm only. Running a router with the bit, say, half inserted, is asking for a very nasty accident.

Wayne Davy
15th May 2003, 11:19 PM
I second Ken's comments.

One thing you could do. Does the router have a plastic base plate that can be removed? This would gain you a little more cutter height.

Suggest you email Triton for their thoughts.

Biggles
15th May 2003, 11:31 PM
Hello Druss. I've always been told not to fully insert the bit into the router too!. I have a Hitachi TR12 1/2" Router and also use it on the Mk3 Triton mounting plate on heaps of occasions without any problems not fully inserting ("to the hilt") the cutter. Make sure you have enough of the collet / clamp holding the bit tho!!! As my old woodworking teacher in Yr 7 high school once said to us "This things doing 22000rpm and it wont say sorry!!!!!!!!!!" Good that things like that still stick in your head after over 20 years of woodworking!:).
Just a footnote :- If you are having problems keeping the cutter off the base of the collet / clamp when you insert it to tighten it up ( ie - not enough hands if u have 2 spanners to wield!!!!) use little rubber "o" rings slipped over the shaft of the cutter to determine depth. This will stop it dropping further than you need into the router when inverted.You can get them at any bearing joint for bugger all! Hope all this helps:)

ChrisH
15th May 2003, 11:32 PM
I was under the impression there was a correct amount to insert the bit, and it was NOT "all the way in".
I don't have it handy but I think the Carbatec catalogue has details of how far the bits need to be inserted, from memory it is about 3/4 inch. (???)
Chris

Biggles
15th May 2003, 11:37 PM
Just to add to my last post, Ken is correct in saying dont bring the bit say more than a few millimeters ( I'd say 5mm max or whatever is safe for the specific bit ) off the max depth of the collet :eek:

Biggles
15th May 2003, 11:51 PM
Ive noticed when inserting some shorter cutters where the shaft expands out from the 1/4" or 1/2" shaft to meet the "cutting blade area"(sorry dont know a better name for it??) it can make a rounded area. If you locked onto this area by putting the cutter too deep into your router you would get very little holding area on the actual shaft of cutter...perhaps giving you a false sense of security in that it was locked tight right along the shaft!! Hope I havent confused you all. I'm pretty dyslexic about explaing stuff like this:confused:

derekcohen
16th May 2003, 03:07 AM
Druss

Truth is that I experience the same problem and solve it by (cautiously) running the bit a little further out of the router than recommended. I do take precautions, tho' - usually get my mother-in-law to test it out for me first. No, I'm kidding. "I love you mum" (I have to say that - she reads these posts).

It all depends on the shaft length of the bit. Some are only about 25mm long (from memory), while I have some that are twice that. Use your commonsense - it is probably OK to extend the bit by 5mm as long as it can be tightened very securely by the remainder.

This advice only applies to bits with small heads, such as straight bits, and only when you take very light cuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just imagine a large molding bit, holding on tenuously by its last mm, spinning at 20000 rpm, and you dig it in for a 1/4" cut! The mind boggles.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Template Tom
17th May 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by druss
I have a RYOBI 3/4 h.p. plunge router set into a MK3 triton mounting plate. The problem is that even with the router fully compressed it only shows about half of the cutter through the plate hole. Now I have heard it is a no no to not have the router bit fully inserted into the machine. However, it appears the only way to obtain any depth at all is to not fully insert the bit.
The assembly is correct, in that i mean that the router is flush with the plate. The router model is HR 120.
Would greatfully appreciate your views on this.:confused:
Druss.

The depth of the Collet will determine how much hold it has. If it is only 20mm deep then there is no reason for pushing it much further in. I usually recommend showing 5-10mm of 'White Metal' (router shank)
Take note of the new Makita router, where the suggestion of inserting the cutter till it bottoms on the chuck and pull it out 1mm. (With the new Makita there is a nylon insert available to prevent the cutter disappearing into the collect completely, especially when used in the router table:)

Just a quick reminder for all those in Queensland The Wood show is on next weekend I hope to see you there. I will be on Demonstration Stand 5 (I think)

I have also posted my new home page if you are interested
www.wa1.quik.com.au/tod

dreamer
17th May 2003, 04:49 PM
Hmmm, I have the same problem compounded by, a) new router (DeWalt), b)new router table (triton) and C)new operator, me. Therefore I don't have the experience to know whether the set up is OK. I see on your website Tom that you recommend the larger cutters are for experienced operators... well I thought a good project to learn on would be a picture frame and a chance to try out the door making set (my plan was to practice on the frame using the raised door panel cutter, and then move onto cupboard doors :( ). Anyway because the cutter is so wide, it has to be inserted from the top of the table, with the router fully plunged, it still doesn't have a lot of meat in the collett, Do other routers have a greater depthof plunge or am I missing something?????. Also on the triton forum, they talk about taking the springs out, (the return springs for plunging) is that a good idea????? :rolleyes:

Yes I would attend a workshop but WA is a bit far to travel :confused:

Bob K

ijig
17th May 2003, 09:59 PM
YES! At least all the way thru the collet. Never bottom them out. It will ruin the collet! Put a small piece of 1/2" foam cut with a hole punch in collet then you will never bottom one out. Too much shank in ruins collet,NOT ENOUGH WILL RUIN YOUR DAY!!!. Go to mlcswoodworking.com . They have a collet extension for $24.95 US. I would only use it when I had to tho!! Hope this helps.:

dreamer
17th May 2003, 10:21 PM
Mate, you wouldn't believe it, I was just reading that copy of fine woodworker that has the article on it (right beside an article on the Triton router). They seem to think it's OK but by the time I convert to Aus $$ and pay freight, I may just as well buy a Triton router and have a second router (no I don't have the $$ to do that). Seems to me I can't be the first person to strike this, in fact reading the mag article, they seem to think it's life with a router table????. The raised panel bit I have says not to be used free hand so it's made for a router table, :eek: I think the penny just dropped, is that purpose built router table as opposed to a router in a table???

Now I'm really confused:(

Bob K

druss
18th May 2003, 11:51 AM
Many thanks to all who replied, I will try all of the above. If I still have some fingers left I'll let you know how I went.
Cheers and thanks again.
Druss

Template Tom
18th May 2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by dreamer
Hmmm, I have the same problem compounded by, a) new router (DeWalt), b)new router table (triton) and C)new operator, me. Therefore I don't have the experience to know whether the set up is OK. I see on your website Tom that you recommend the larger cutters are for experienced operators...

Not necessarily so I may have suggested take great care. I certainly would never use a cutter that was so big it would not fit through the base of the router.

well I thought a good project to learn on would be a picture frame and a chance to try out the door making set (my plan was to practice on the frame using the raised door panel cutter, and then move onto cupboard doors :

I would practice on another project first one that does no involve the use of a large cutter.

( ). Anyway because the cutter is so wide, it has to be inserted from the top of the table, with the router fully plunged, it still doesn't have a lot of meat in the collett, Do other routers have a greater depthof plunge or am I missing something?????. Also on the triton forum, they talk about taking the springs out, (the return springs for plunging) is that a good idea????? :rolleyes:

I have never experience taking the springs out of the Triton router as yet I will give you my opinion once I do.

Yes I would attend a workshop but WA is a bit far to travel :confused:


If all goes well I will see you at the Sydney show in June no ned for you to do any travelling


Bob K

I hope you managed to navigate through my site alright I know there are a couple of blank pages but I have never said i was any good with the computer.

dreamer
18th May 2003, 10:18 PM
Thanks Tom,

I may not have been clear with my problem, by too large to fit through the hole, I wasn't talking about the shank but the cutter radius ie the raised panel cutter. Anyway I will look you up at the show. The next thing I need to get my head around is dust management. I plan to work in the garage where I also store things, everything now has a layer of fine wood dust :(

Thanks again for the advice,

BoB K :D

PS the router is a DeWAlt and I didn't want to pull apart and remove the springs in case I stuff a perfectly good router.

soundman
18th May 2003, 10:49 PM
It seems to be such a problem with tritin router benches that carbatec used to have a bit with an extra long shank specificaly for triton.


As for required depth collets on various machines are different.

One of my machines I could insert a half inch bit up to the cutting edge if I was silly.


Its worth pulling the collet out of your machine and having a good long look at it with a shaft in it. Think about how and wher it grips.

But 20mm is about right some bits and machines give you quite a bit of latitude.


cheers.
Dont forget to keep your bits & collet clean.

derekcohen
19th May 2003, 02:50 AM
Bob

Be VERY careful - what you are planning to do with your panel raising set is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. These wide bits need to be very secure in your router. Don't use them if they do not obtain a secure depth. And don't even think of doing so freehand!!!!

There are two types of panel raising bits available. Yours is the "horizontal" type, that is, the timber is pushed through it flat on the router table top. This type has wide, large bits. The other type cuts on the "vertical". These bits are tall and skinny. The timber is pushed against the fence and, typically, a high fence is used to stabilise the timber. I'm not sure if I'm describing this very well, but you would recognise them if you looked into any router book. In my opinion, only the vertical type should be considered in your application. Much safer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

dreamer
19th May 2003, 09:44 AM
Thanks guys,

Your comment was clear Derek and I understand. I have flicked through some router bit cattledogs and found a vertical moulding bit that I'll start out with (ouch the price) In what set up would the horizontal bits be used???? As soundman suggested, it was interesting removing the collet and having a look.

The number of after market router tables going around, you'd think there'd be a big demand for longer shanks from the manufacturers. No wonder the Triton router sells so well.

Bob K :cool:

John Saxton
19th May 2003, 09:21 PM
The clearance for seating (as Ken stated)a router bit irrespective of the shank size is generally regarded as 2-3mm or 1/8" and this so that a "hammering " isn't effected to the bit.

When looking at your bit requirements,its a good idea to check the depth of purchase available ..re collett and buy to suit therefore ensuring that the bit will do the job with the projection you require.

Personally I prefer the 1/2 shank and try to purchase along those lines for a number of reasons primarily those of collett purchase,the length of the bit and the minimal vibration/distortion as opposed to the 1/4" shank.

Unfortunately with tiny sizes such as the 1/8 and 5/32 upcut bits that I ordered today they were only available in the small shank and this is where I step down to a small router which I feel allows for better purchase in the collett and gives the projection you require.

Bob,the Horizontal panel raising bits are better suited to dedicated tables with the removable inserts in the table surface and of course a variable speed unit bringing the speed down to cater fpr the peripheral speed of the bit. Unless your set-up provides these minimal requirements then you have problems and a safety,risk-management concern.Even the vertical bits require some caution but are able to be used on a standard table with the inclusion of a tall fence and one that I have used is of 300mm high and fixed to the existing fence.

With the vertical bit doing the cuts in a number of small steps will give you a better finish but apply the speed of your router to the bit recommendations.

Cheers:) take care

ijig
19th May 2003, 10:09 PM
mine is used in a table but not Triton. Good Luck!!!???????