Incra Ultra Jig System for router table

[wands]

Hi all,
Are these as good as they sound?
Are they worth the money that is asked for them?
If so, does anyone know of a cheap outlet to get one and or know of any second-hand ones?
Thanks in advance.
Steve :)

[blindbambi]

I dont know about the router table system, but I have the Incra 2000 miter fence for my table saw. It is a great setup, and well worth the money. Only trouble is the tape is all in imperial, and you have to order the metric seperate from the states.
They get the thumbs up from me.
Regards Blindbambi:D

[soundman]

you blokes must be richer than I am.

I could buy a lot of goodies for the price of an incra.

[wands]

Soundman,
What would you buy in its place?
I want to build a router table and be able to join any two bits of timber and be able to dress the edges.
Cheers, Steve :)

[soundman]

what precesely are you wanting to do.

[wands]

Soundman,
I want to be able to make dovetail joins for small boxes, drawers etc - abd be capable of making half-blind dovetails. I have seen the cheap jigs ($100), but they only offer through dovetails and form what I gather are time consuming to set up (if I am wrong please let me know). Also use the fence for general router table work - edging etc. I might even be silly enough to try their double-dovetails??
I am no master in the shed (only for fun when I get the time), and you are right, the incra jigs are very expensive, that is why I am after feedback to see if I can justify purchasing one (secondhand at that if possible)?
Thanks, Steve :)
If you can't have your dreams, then what can you have?

[John Saxton]

Hi like most I'm sceptical of anything that boasts numerous achievements but having seen this demonstrated a coupla years ago I decided on working on the "War Office" to justify bending the Visa once again.
I got the 12" Ultra Lite primarily for the incremental range of fine cuts that can be produced over a vast range of dedicated joints.
Had it not been for this fact I may have given it a miss but those fine cuts produced are a boon with a finish that is worthy of the engineering in this jig.
BUT they are not cheap and the outlay has to be justified and not on the whim of another tool in the shed ...quicker to set-up than the Leigh and great for small projects like boxe's etc if you're into volume.

Cheers:)

[Wayne Davy]

I also have the Incra Ultra Lite on my Router Table and I love it. The ultra fine adjustment is fantastic and when combined with the fine adjuster on the Triton Router, getting those nice tight joints is a breeze. Yes, I know they are not cheap but I believe they are worth it in the time saved during fine work.

My 2.2c (gst inc)

[Little Festo]

I have an incra jig too. I agree with the two previous posts, it's great. Have a llok at this site http://www.woodshopdemos.com/incra.htm

Peter

[Dan]

If the price of the INCRA scares you a bit you might get a few ideas from here

http://www.patwarner.com/routerfence.html

There was also an article in Australian Woodworker magazine issue 103 (June 2002) which is an adaptation on Pats fence.

The main difference will be that if you make your own you will need a calculator, verniers, whiteboard or note pads and be able to visualise what you are wanting to do before working out how to do it. That, for me, is the most fun part. I have not used an INCRA fence, but it seems to me they are well made and there will be a lot less time required to get the result you want, although you will pay for the convenience.

Books from Pat Warner and Ian Kirby can be very useful.

Dan

[wands]

Thanks all for your replies.

I am leaning towards the extra cost and go all out for an Incra System. I have burnt myself already, by rushing out a purchasing a heap of Triton equipment. Don't get me wrong, the Triton stuff is great, but if I had my time again I'd buy more dedicated equipment (by the time you buy all the extras, you could have yourself a nice table saw)

blindbambi: Cheers, I hope I don't have any trouble with the imperial measurements?

soundman: I don't know about being richer, but as I have found, when you stop going out, getting drunk and falling down all the time, get married and start a family, you seem to be able to save money just that little bit easier.

John Saxton: Have you found the Ultra Lite restrictive? Is there a need for the complete template library that comes with the 16" or 24" Systems? I have been told (all be it by a salesman) that it is easy to turn say a 24" piece around so that you in effect can join anything up to 24"?

Wayne Davy: You are the one that has set me off on this mission. I saw your homemade Router Table (you must be proud of it), when I was researching building my own router table. I currently have a Triton router tabletop, but it was a pain changing the saw when I needed it. Thus I decided to build one....

Little Festo: Thanks, checked out the demo. Looks fairly easy, I'll just have to wait and see.

Dan: Checked out Pat Warner's homemade micro adjustable fence. Had me thinking, but I don't think I'd be able to recreate the precision that the Incra seems to offer. Unfortunately the Australian Woodworker issue is out of stock (was tempted to get the US edition, but the parts list gave all part numbers - not the actual descriptions, thus I abandoned that idea. Thanks anyway.

Thanks again for your replies. I'll be getting into finding out the cheapest way of getting one, especially since they sell in the States for $300AUD for a 16" Ultra complete system. Wonder whether it would be possible to have one shipped out??

Regards, Steve

[John Saxton]

Hi Steve,I Knew that my Ultra-Lite would be restrictive in terms of the 12-3/4" capacity of the Jig but it suited my intention to restrict it's use's to small items being produced.
I did buy the complete library of templates primarily to have the arsenal of joint capabilities available..and a worthy outlay inmy view.
Here's the Incra homesite with a FAQ section that may easer any misgivings you might have.

http://www.incra.biz/index.html

HTH
Cheers:)

[kenmil]

Originally posted by wands
..... I'll be getting into finding out the cheapest way of getting one, especially since they sell in the States for $300AUD for a 16" Ultra complete system. Wonder whether it would be possible to have one shipped out??

Regards, Steve

Steve,

I buy a bit of stuff from the USA, and I have had no trouble at all with it. I am considering an Incra Jig myself, but I wonder whether a precision instrument will stand up to the handling it gets in transit. The best price I can find for the 16", by the way is US$230 at Woodcraft , which is about A$345, plus freight of about A$45. Still a lot better than the $539 that Carbatec want for it.

[tyrone]

Dont forget to add tax. Not sure exactly what it is but i think there is 15% import duty plus 10% GST plus a customs fee. You may get away with getting it past customs sometimes but i wouldn't count on it. I know this applies on car parts and i have heard of people not paying tax but again make sure you plan for it because if customs want you to pay the tax they will not release the item until you pay them:( . So $400 plus 15% = $460 plus 10% GST = $504 plus a fee = lots more.

[kenmil]

Thanks, but I have been buying DVD's, books, tools, clothing and a little jewellery from the USA for a several years and have never been charged duty. A number of my parcels have been opened for inspection, but I have never had a query. So long as you are not bringing in commercial quantities, there is not much to worry about. GST is not applicable on incoming goods anyway, so it is only import duty and not all items attract duty.;)

[tyrone]

As I read it on the customs site you do pay GST but you do not pay the tax of the country you are importing.

"All goods imported into Australia must be cleared by Customs, whether they be imported by air, sea or post. While imports of low value will generally be released by Customs for delivery direct to consignees, importers are responsible for obtaining a formal Customs clearance for consignments of goods above set value limits (currently $250 for goods imported by sea or air cargo and $1,000 for goods imported through the postal system).

Please note that Customs duty and/or Goods and Services Tax and, where applicable, Wine Equalisation Tax and Luxury Car Tax are levied on many items entering Australia, whether or not the goods require a formal Customs clearance. Customs duty rates vary and depend on a number of factors such as type of goods and country of origin."

Australian Customs General Imports (http://www.customs.gov.au/site/index.cfm?nav_id=670&area_id=5)

As for the Import duty I think the Jig would come under 8466.92.00 - 5%

Section 16 chaptor 84
PARTS AND ACCESSORIES SUITABLE FOR USE
SOLELY OR PRINCIPALLY WITH THE
MACHINES OF 8456 TO 8465, INCLUDING WORK
OR TOOL HOLDERS, SELF-OPENING DIEHEADS,
DIVIDING HEADS AND OTHER SPECIAL
ATTACHMENTS FOR MACHINE-TOOLS; TOOL
HOLDERS FOR ANY TYPE OF TOOL FOR
WORKING IN THE HAND

Where a router is classed as 8465.92.00

Customs Tarrifs (http://www.customs.gov.au/site/index.cfm?nav_id=670&area_id=5)

Customs value $345.00

Customs duty @ 5% x $345.00 = $17.25
(Payable)

International transport and insurance $45.00

VoTI $407.25

GST @ 10% x $407.25 = $40.73
(Payable)

Total payable (Customs duty + GST) $57.97

Like i said before you could import it 100 times and not be charged for tax and personally i would risk it like kemil. But just keep in mind that you may have to pay more than you bargined for.

So $345 + $45 could become $450 I know i would pay the extra $100 for dealing with an australian company. This is a precision tool, what if it is damaged or breaks 6 months down the track. I dont want to put you off importing, as Kemil said he does it often but make sure you know all the facts and are willing to take the risks.

[tyrone]

Sorry the links automatically go back to the home page just go to import/export - importing goods and customs tarrifs

After further reading there is a section under tarrif concesions where nearly every power tool that a wood worker would use is listed including routers and their accesories. So with no tarrif i think it would be pretty stiff for customs to charge you.

Remember if you plan for the worst the outcome should always be better

[George]

Contrary to Ken's dismissive reply, GST is applicable to imported goods. There is however a threshold below which it is not cost effective for the government to collect the tax. If you are below the threshold then no GST applies.

[kenmil]

Dismissive ? As Tyrone says, goods under $1,000 by post do not attract GST.

You can get bogged down worrying about all the "maybe & perhaps" or you can do something. Personally, I prefer to do something. Customs duties are designed primarily for importers (in the commercial sense), and are not intended to penalise individuals who bring in single, non-prohibited items of reasonable value, hence the $1,000 threshold.

If you are too worried about it - don't do it.

[wands]

For what it is worth, I intend on buying from the US when it saves me a fair deal more than the same purchase here. I recently purchased a fly fishing reel from the US, saving myself $200. The guy selling to me had kindly marked it as a "gift". I had been udner the impression that the limit was 3500, but at 1000, you are able to save money (not very patriotic but....)
To purchase a 24" ultra would cost $396 (that is including postage), saving + or - $250, to that is worth it.
Cheers, Steve :)

[chris_hewett]

Contrary to the advice above, I can tell you that you may well have to pay duty on posted items that are less than $1000. My job has me travelling overseas very regularly and it is standard practice at the airport to charge GST and duty when the total collected is more than $50. I imported a DVD player from Holland late last year that was sent by post, and was less than $1000 and had to pay GST/duty for it at the post office before collecting it (about $90). My advice for importing goods is to calculate the maximum it MAY cost, add a few dollars to allow for the muck-around if you have problems with it, and if it is still significantly cheaper (or you cannot source it locally) - go ahead.

Chris

[George]

Probably getting off the topic but we might as well get the information right so that people can make an informed decision.

What Tyrone actually said (and he is spot on) was "importers are responsible for obtaining a formal Customs clearance for consignments of goods above set value limits (currently $250 for goods imported by sea or air cargo and $1,000 for goods imported through the postal system). "

The $1000 threshold has nothing to do with whether duty or GST is payable. It is the threshold at which formal customs clearance is required for imports coming through the postal service (couriers not included). Formal customs clearance incurs an additional administrative charge.

Duty and GST are not payable if the combined amount to be collected is less than $50. By my calculation, for a good attracting 5% duty the threshold value (including postage and insurance) at which duty/GST would be waived is about $325.

[kenmil]

Jeez George, you sound like a public servant. Give it a rest:D

[George]

Sorry Ken. I'm was just trying to correct some information which was simply incorrect. In future I won't let the facts get in the way of a good posting.

[kenmil]

Whatever..:o

[radforms]

Hi all,

Gst is applicable on imported goods if they are of a commercial quantity.

However what is deemed as to what is a commercial quantity is confusing.

I purchased 1 item costing $2000US and was NOT charged GST.

I purchased 8 books from Amazon which cost $450US all up and was contacted by UPS before they delivered the books saying that it is a commerical quantity and the value is over $150 Aud. The guy there told me to limit the number of books to 2-3 and they will not charge gst even if it was over $150.

Recently I made a large purchase of many computer items and got the company in the US to post my invoice seperately and only include a delivery note with no value on it. No gst charged.

[kenmil]

I ended up buying the Incra Jig Ultra Lite (same as Wayne's) for my router table (ex Woodcraft in the USA) and it was beautifully packed and arrived in 100% condition, which was my main concern. Got to say I have used it a couple of times and it is excellent.

[ozwinner]

Theres no GSt on imported stuff for your own use, under A$500.
Cheers, Allan

[ozwinner]

Dont you hate it when you miss a whole page of replys ?????????????

[alf t]

Steve,
Like some of the others I have an Incra Ultra Lite.
It is all you need for jewellry boxes and drawers etc. If you are going to make huge pieces of furniture go ahead and buy the BIG GEAR but you will be wasting your money otherwise.
Remember it is not only for making joints. It is a complete fence system and I use mine far more for general routing than for joint making.
Where you buy is your business but I bought mine from Carbatec ($399) and I can ring them toll free any time I want info. Try that if you decide to purchase in the USA. !.
Alf

[Termite]

Well I am in the process of cooling down the plastic so I can buy an Incra Jig, and it seems to me that even though the 16 inch system is dearer than the ultra lite you also get the full set of templates, the upgraded fence stop, an extended stop on your fence, the whole assembly is more robust and rigid. This all brings the extra $130.00 right into perspective.
Well I think so.
Regards
Termite

[JaD]

Hey Wands,
I bought the ultra lite at the sydney working with wood show last year from carbatec. If I remember right it was $390 less 10% show price and haggled it for $340. Its a great piece of gear and makes accuracy very easy (and I need all the help I can get). Like the others I think the 12" lite is ample size and because I have my router table in my workbench I can set the incra up any distance away from the bit and work piece of any size(within reason)

Anyway this is probably all too late and you've probably got your new one anyway.

But it sure was interesting reading the many expert opinions on TAXES!!!! What hope do us mere mortals have :D

[Eastie]

I’ve been considering an incra for a while and have a few more questions. [list=1]
does the standard system have dust extraction built in or is that an extra with the additional fence?
more importantly – is it possible to upgrade the imperial scales to metric?
[/list=1]
Any help would be appreciated to avert showing my complete lack of knowledge to a sales person :D

[kenmil]

I don't know about the scales - I am happy to work in inches or centimetres, it doesn't bother me. As for dust collection, if you build it into your table, you don't need anything on the fence.

[blindbambi]

Eastie,
You can upgrade the scales to metric, but you must purchase them through incra in the USA cost me about A$20 ($10 for the product & $10 for the postage).
Regards Blindbambi:)

[Sprog]

Originally posted by blindbambi
Eastie,
You can upgrade the scales to metric, but you must purchase them through incra in the USA cost me about A$20 ($10 for the product & $10 for the postage).
Regards Blindbambi:)

Carba-tec in Perth have metric scales.

[chia]

be vary careful if you're lokking at incras on the web. i thought i found a really great price for the Ultra 16 ($195.00 U.S) Ultra 24 ($220 U.S) only to find they wanted $194 U.S shipping!:eek:
has anybody else found cheap prices from U.S.A that dont cost an arm and a leg to get here?
Woodpecks addresshttp://www.woodpeck.com

[Eastie]

thanks for your help

[wands]

Chia,

I got a quote from: http://workbenchtool.com/woodworking_systems.htm
email address: [email protected]
and this was their reply:
We can ship to Australia using the United States Postal Service. All prices are in U.S. dollars and you will be responsible for any tariffs to enter the country.
Model - Price 4 -10 day shipping 4 - 6 week shipping
24" Ultra Jig - $222.95 $99.00 $45.00
16" Ultra Jig - $197.85 $85.00 $40.00
Ultra Lite - $137.00 $45.00 $25.00
Thank you for your interest. Contact me with any questions or comments.

Cheers, Steve

[chia]

Thanks Steve

woodpeck also use U.S.P ,i wonder how they can justify double the delivery price. The prices you have been quoted are very good, i was wondering if you intend to order or are you still looking?

[Rocker]

I wrote the article that Dan refers to on a mortising jig in AW 103. it is not a router fence, but, as he says it is an adaptation of Pat Warner's router fence. There is a pic of my jig in the jigs section of this forum. My jig can easily be adapted as a router fence. It is easier to make than Pat Warner's, which uses wide aluminium bars as guide bars. You do not need calculators etc if you instal a feeler gauge on your jig. With such a gauge it is easy to make a precision micro-adjustable router fence.

I have an Incra Ultra jig and it is gathering dust in my shop. I found it too fiddly to use routinely. I think it might be suitable for people who are making production runs of the same item. But if you ar an amateur making one-off pieces, I suggest you make your own micro-adjustable fence, based on my jig.

[Rocker]

I wrote the article that Dan refers to on a mortising jig in AW 103. it is not a router fence, but, as he says it is an adaptation of Pat Warner's router fence. There is a pic of my jig in the jigs section of this forum. My jig can easily be adapted as a router fence. It is easier to make than Pat Warner's, which uses wide aluminium bars as guide bars. You do not need calculators etc if you instal a feeler gauge on your jig. With such a gauge it is easy to make a precision micro-adjustable router fence.

I have an Incra Ultra jig and it is gathering dust in my shop. I found it too fiddly to use routinely. I think it might be suitable for people who are making production runs of the same item. But if you ar an amateur making one-off pieces, I suggest you make your own micro-adjustable fence, based on my jig.

[ndru]

Originally posted by kenmil
Jeez George, you sound like a public servant. Give it a rest:D

Hey, Ken - don't get me offside, too!:D

[Eastie]

Funnily enough I tried to have a bit more of a look at one at the Melbourne wood show - however I found that none of the suppliers had bought them to the show. Little interest at previous shows was the general consensus.

Oh well, I’ll save the credit card for some extra hard abuse on the two week fishing trip to the Maldives.

See ya http://www.ubeaut.biz/wave.gif

[kenmil]

Originally posted by ndru
Hey, Ken - don't get me offside, too!:D

Hmmm.....let me rephrase that !:p