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OGYT
17th March 2007, 02:37 PM
Too many of my roughouts are cracking, even with sealing and wrapping in paper. :no: So I added another old refer beside the other one that I use for blanks.
I drilled 6, 12mm holes in the front of the bottom section, 6 holes between the two sections, and 4 or 5 holes on each side of the top section. This will allow a little air circulation, but not much. I'll open the doors every day, just to exchange the air a little more. Maybe that'll keep 'em from mold.
Maybe this'll keep 'em from cracking.:? I'm sick of picking up a roughed out bowl, and finding it worthless. :((
The second pic is a shot of the one that holds the blanks til I can get to 'em.
Third pic is both of 'em, side by side.
It's hot and dry here, most of the year. What think ye... will this beat the cracks?

Old Arn
17th March 2007, 02:45 PM
Looks like it oughta work. I got an old fridge sitten out in the breezeway. Might have to give it a try.:2tsup:

rsser
17th March 2007, 03:39 PM
If the cracks are caused primarily by diff rates of evaporation from the end grain as opposed to the side then maybe here all you're doing is reducing both rates by the same amount and the diff by nothing.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
17th March 2007, 05:34 PM
One trick that may work for you, given your location, is a tray/bowl of water in the bottom of the 'frig. Doesn't work down here, our air's not that dry... but I reckon it made a diff when I lived in NW NSW.

Personally, I'd also be sealing all over with end-grain sealer.

hughie
17th March 2007, 06:25 PM
Al,
I would go along with Skew on this one. If they still crack some then use a bigger container...wider to gain more surface area on your water.

Maybe you could try the water seasoning seeing your locale is very dry. There has been several posts on water seasoning.

For me no one system works on all. I have had good results on Camphor Laurel with either soap/water mix or DNA [meths].Pine and similar responds well to soap/water.
What I do, do is to store them in cardboard boxes to produce a mini climate. Some times if there appears to be some likley hood of cracking with drier timbers I mix em with very green to increase the humidty in the box. This has been successful for me.
Also I paint the out side of the rough outs with Boiled Linseed Oil rather than use paper etc. Then sit em face down in the box, store em in the coolest place in the shed
At the moment I have some Bo'dark...:U sitting in a box with the outside coated with BLO, Its doing fine, so far so good.I am trying to get the distortion done but not that dry its bullet proof...could be tricky

Caveman
17th March 2007, 08:11 PM
Hi Al - I too have had problems with rough outs cracking - tried LDD/water soaking, nuking in the microwave (yep we even have them things in this part of the world), freezing etc and still got some losses.

The challenge here is the huge diurnal difference we get in both temp and humidity. Days upto 32'c / <20%RH and nights down to 10'c and >85%RH.

I've found the only way that works for me is to immediately coat the whole rough out in parrafin wax (no such thing a purpose made end sealer out here). I then move the rough outs into the house (much more stable temperature/RH) for a month or so, afterwhich I take them back out to the shed.
Even with a thick coat of wax all round, it only takes about 4 to 6 months on a big bowl to dry out nicely.

Your fridge should work - at least keeping a fairly consistant temp and humidity to allow the drying to be more even.

Good luck with it.

tashammer
18th March 2007, 07:24 AM
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/boiling.html

a blokes efforts to reduce drying damage by boiling the wood in roughed out form.

OGYT
18th March 2007, 10:29 AM
If the cracks are caused primarily by diff rates of evaporation from the end grain as opposed to the side then maybe here all you're doing is reducing both rates by the same amount and the diff by nothing.
Okay, Ern... I think I understand... but won't keeping it in the refer give it more time to equalize as it evaporates?:? :?

...bowl of water in the bottom... sealing all over with end grain sealer.
Thanks, Skew, the tray of water makes sense to me, I'll give that a try. And I did seal them all over with anchorseal. I first tried Johnson's Paste Wax, slathering it on, at the suggestion of a man in Arizona, where it's always hot and dry... but it flaked off during the winter, and I've since coated all of them with AS.

Maybe you could try the water seasoning seeing your locale is very dry. Also I paint the out side of the rough outs with Boiled Linseed Oil rather than use paper etc.
I'll have to do a search for the water seasoning, thing. That sounds interesting. :think:
When you coat the outside of roughouts with BLO, will it ever dry on the green wood? :? And when you put them face down, do you have any way that air can get to the inside of the roughout... other than just through the cardboard?:?

OGYT
18th March 2007, 10:50 AM
Andy, someone told me I should put a small light bulb in the fridge and turn it on for about an hour a day. Wouldn't that be goin' against the reason for the fridge?

Tas, I've heard about boiling, but don't have any way to do that inside, and I'd be violating the burn-ban if I did it outside on windy days... and they're nearly all windy here. We have a law against burning outside on certain high risk days.

Hughie, here's one of your posts that I found in the search: Another method is wet seasoning, again rough turn to around 10&#37; of the dia for wall thickness. Submerge it in water for several days, duration will vary depending on size etc.You cant over soak so don't worry about that. Then remove and dry, again actually drying time is up for grabs, you'll figure it out OK
Is that just plain water?

Skew ChiDAMN!!
18th March 2007, 01:51 PM
Andy, someone told me I should put a small light bulb in the fridge and turn it on for about an hour a day. Wouldn't that be goin' against the reason for the fridge?

That's more for colder climes... it keep the air a bit warmer than outside ambient temp. You have the opposite problem... :wink:

Caveman
18th March 2007, 05:40 PM
Al - just come across this in my meanderings through cyberspace: http://www.australianburls.com/Tips.htm - scroll down a little, there's a short bit on something similar to what you've done - maybe you've already seen it.

BernieP
18th March 2007, 05:57 PM
G'Day Al

Have you ever tried freezing it for a week in plastic bag, then putting into fridge without bag for two weeks? Bloke at the club told me to try it on a green finished bit and worked great. Don't Know if it was a fluke, but glad it worked as missus wasn't amused. By the way when I saw your pics of fridge had funny thought of three bears looking in and the look on their faces:o
Knew I had also read about drying try here http://www.penturners.org/content/Wood-Drying.pdf

Cheers
Bernie

hughie
18th March 2007, 11:06 PM
When you coat the outside of roughouts with BLO, will it ever dry on the green wood? :? And when you put them face down, do you have any way that air can get to the inside of the roughout... other than just through the cardboard?:?


Al, I rough turn then give a few hours to settle, sometimes I give a couple of days in the cardboard box and then use the BLO it will dry just fine.
I have even used the soap method and then dried off the bowl and coated it with BLO. Yep just lay it on the cardboard and it will dry just fine, abit slow but its been ok to date for me.



Another method is wet seasoning, again rough turn to around 10% of the dia for wall thickness. Submerge it in water for several days, duration will vary depending on size etc.You cant over soak so don't worry about that. Then remove and dry, again actually drying time is up for grabs, you'll figure it out OK



Yeah plain water, I've got a handout from a guy in Queensalnd who uses the water method exclusively and claims a success every time. Will dig it out and post the details.

hughie
20th March 2007, 09:27 PM
Al,

Have a look at this site

http://www.telmedpak.com/agriculturearticles.asp?a=2582

about half way donw the page theres a great deal of info on a whole lot of different methods including sucrose.

TimberNut
22nd March 2007, 02:55 PM
Was down in Tassie in Feb last year and picked up a heap of green timber. The nicest was some Tiger Myrtle. I decided to freeze a couple of lengths to assist with drying. Have been monitoring the weight every 2 weeks (approx) since to see when they stabilize.
The process was - freeze for a week. In fridge for 2 weeks, then on kitchen bench ever since (more consistent temps inside, than out in the shed, and easier to reweigh when I remember!)

Weights indicate they have just stabilized in the last 2 weeks or so. Myrtle is well known for being a contankerous timber with major splitting issues. These 2 pieces have almost no splits compared to 2 other onces bought and sealed same time, but not frozen. Kept for comparing air-drying with freezing.
I will start a new thread under this woodturning section in the next few days with pics, and weight charts for those interested.

All in all it looks like I can now use these beautiful pieces of timber thankfully freezing appears to have sped up the drying process considerably, and eliminated the splitting.

(note: dimensions of the pieces are about 2 1/2 - 3in sqare and about 12 in long. Not rough turned just solid sections - hence the 12 month drying period even with freezing).

OGYT
23rd March 2007, 01:33 PM
Well, I clicked on, and read all the stuff on each of the links that all of you gave me (that's a lot of reading!!).
Someone gave me a link to a site where the bloke had made a kiln, and using lightbulbs for heat, and a fan to circulate the air, was drying roughed bowls in from a week to a month.
So I built one of my refrigerators into one of these "kilns" by adding a fan and putting in a 40 watt bulb in the freezer side, and a 100watt bulb in the other side. Now all my roughs are inside it, and I'm going to see what happens. So far, nothing, but it's only been one day.
I'll post something the first time I find one of them dried.....
Thanks to all of you for posting, and trying to help me out.
I'm still going to rough turn them, soak them in soap (til I check out Hughies contribution :o)), then I'll coat them in anchor seal, and put 'em in the kiln.
Who knows...?....

tashammer
24th March 2007, 02:03 AM
this looks like it might be interesting Al. i hope you will have some movie sequences, maybe even a book(let).

"A Seasoned Journey"

Arriba
24th March 2007, 03:17 AM
Hello - hope you don't mind a comment from far away - I've been reading and enjoying your formum for months, and this putting wood in a freezer rather fascinates me. Do you suppose it works because modern freezers have a dehumidifying effect? Isn't that why the freezer doesn't build up an ice pack that needs to be defrosted? So aren't you effectively slowly drawing out the moisture, thus reducing the splitting, rather than the actual freezing making the difference? Just a thought, as I was sitting here in California.

Thanks for having such an informative forum - I've learned a lot - and you know, we have a ton of different Eucalyptus trees here - brought over from you to plant and provide railroad ties back when - unfortunately, large numbers of the transplants were the kind that have a twist in the structure, so you mostly see them lining the path of the railroad, but never used for the ties.