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derekcohen
5th Jul 2003, 10:29 PM
Hi gang

I was in Bunnings today (purchasing wax filler, if you must know) and spied a new GMC product, a 2 hp compressor. What made this so remarkable is that it is only $99!! The downside is that it only has a 24 litre tank.

This item is not yet on the GMC website.

So tell me what could one use it for? It would be a great partner for a brad nailer, I'm sure. Too small to use for spray painting a car (what is recommended)? OK for spray painting (lacquer) furniture? Driving air tools?

Regards from Perth

Derek

journeyman Mick
5th Jul 2003, 11:16 PM
Ok for running air tools with intermittent air requirements - ie: stapler, bradder, even a framing gun. No good for any tool requiring a constant supply like a die grinder, drill or grinder. Could get away with spraying smaller jobs with a gun that has a low air consumption. For instance I have a CIG Arnold spray gun that needs to run at about 60psi, so would not be suitable but have another, a cheapie which is a copy of a DeVillBiss (I think or maybe of a Binks Bullows) that will happily run at 30 psi so would be ok. If you want to do a fair bit of spraying however get something decent, belt drive at least 12 CFM. Consider any cheapie as disposable. I have a "Supercheap" compressor bought a few years ago for about $150 that lives in my van because I got tired of dragging the big one out of the workshop. It more than paid for itself in the warranty period so if it dies I will just replace it with another "disposable" unit. However I'm guessing that you would be rather upset if yours dies a month after its warranty does so I would suggest getting the largest machine you can if you plan on doing a bit of spraying.

Mick

derekcohen
6th Jul 2003, 12:31 AM
Thanks Mick

Actually, my interest was initiated by my wife (!!), who has been suggesting I get a brad nailer. I think that she has been watching too many re-runs of Norm and the New Yankee Workshop!

The GMC would be fine for that and make for an inexpensive combination (I like the look of the PC125 or PC200, should I actually go down that road).

However, I really need a compressor for spray painting and running some air tools for a car I am restoring (a '57 356A). Recognising that the ideal one would likely run to about a grand, which I cannot justify at this time, I had put thoughts of air tools on hold. But the price of the GMC certainly gives pause for thought. Pity about the small tank.

Regards from Perth

Derek

journeyman Mick
6th Jul 2003, 02:04 PM
Just out of interest, what sort of animal is a '57 356A?

Mick

derekcohen
6th Jul 2003, 02:38 PM
Hi Mick

This shares tool room in my garage. It's a 1957 Porsche 356A. In the 5 years of my custodianship I have rebuilt the brakes, motor, and a million other minor things. It is fairly rust free (having been stored in Sacramento, USA for 15 years earlier) but I have done a lot of panel beating (trying to get rid of any bog), and respraying (out of a rattle can) as I go. A full respray (by myself) will be done in the future. In the meantime I drive it when I can. LOTS of work still to do, and a real distraction to woodworking!

All the best from Perth

Derek

Darryn
6th Jul 2003, 06:23 PM
Swwwwweeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttt

Thats one nice car derek!!

Even makes me wish I had my old VW!

Darryn

journeyman Mick
6th Jul 2003, 09:44 PM
Very nice, and if thats the sort of finish you get out of a spray can I'm sure you'll manage a decent job out of pretty much any compressor!

Mick

derekcohen
7th Jul 2003, 02:48 AM
Geez Doostop, that's a bit below the belt (I'm got my hands over the cars' ears ... airvents). you'll hurt his feelings. He - that is, Harry (the car) - thinks that's like believing a Ryobi is the same as a Makita.

On the other hand, I wish that the parts cost the same as a VW! Unfortunately, they stopped being interchangeable in 1950.

Of course, when Harry gives me a hard time I have been known to call him a jumped up beetle.... Forgive me Harry!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Wood Borer
7th Jul 2003, 08:56 AM
Harry looks good Derek. Any wood in it?

A male car should have female companionship.

- Wood Borer

Neil
7th Jul 2003, 09:05 AM
:eek: You mean that Ryobi and Makita aren't the same!!!! Strewth.

derekcohen
7th Jul 2003, 11:37 AM
Wood Borer

Wood in the car? I would love to have more wood in the car, as long as it was original. I have replaced the original (VW-like) steering wheel with a wood Derrington, which was an optional extra in its day. Looking at this, I am sure I could build one myself - they look like an inner, single piece core of aluminium sandwiched between laminated timbers. Mine looks like mahogany. One of these days I'm going to build one out of Aussie timbers (just for fun). I also have a mind to turn a gearshift knob out of jarrah or something. In fact, the other day I was tracking a set of Porsche cufflinks on eBay because they were miniture versions of the hood badge, and I thought they would be a good size to recess into the top of a wooden gearshift knob. Unfortunately they went for more than I could justify. I'll stick to the original ivory plastic knob I have (which took me a year to find - when I got Harry he came with something that resembled a crystal candelabra!).

Here a pic of the Derrington steering wheel:

Regards from Perth

Derek

kenmil
7th Jul 2003, 05:04 PM
Derek,

Don't get upset here, but I am curious to understand what would possess anyone to restore an old car like that. I know you will think me a Philistine, but any car more than 20 years old belongs in the crusher at the scrap metal yard in my book. I simply don't see the point in spending the time and money which you must surely spend on this. Yes, it's a hobby, and yes, there must be a degree of satisfaction in it all, but I just don't see the point. I never have, (so I probably never will), but please try to explain to me - not that you are obliged to, but I would really like to hear what motivates you to do this.

kenmil
7th Jul 2003, 06:51 PM
Now that's an achievement in itself !:D

Goldy
7th Jul 2003, 08:57 PM
just a idea for storing for air when you have a small air compressor is hook up a old gas cylinder such as off a old forklift etc. I have the same a small air compressor and it didn`t store enough air and I was waiting for it to catch up. Hook up a old gas cylinder and now I can paint no stop.

bye goldy

derekcohen
8th Jul 2003, 03:04 AM
Goldy

That is very clever. How do you do it? Step-by-step.

Thanks

Derek

derekcohen
8th Jul 2003, 03:36 AM
Ken

In answer to your query 'why'.

Restoring classic cars requires a romantic heart. It is definitely not about money - these things can become a bottomless pit and will get out of hand unless you learn to do it yourself. I believe that the 356 is not just a car, it is art, a moving sculpture. This car has such amazing lines. Waaay ahead of its time. Not to mention the technological advances it heralded in its day (e.g. thoroughly outperforming big V8s with its dinky 1600 flat-four engine).

I love this car for it's friendliness. It is not a pretentious car, unlike the Porsche 911. Strangers stop me in the street to chat about it. Drivers (ranging from little old ladies to bikies to truck drivers) wave and give me the thumbs up. It seems to capture a part of everyone's dreams in the nicest possible way. I guess classic cars tend to return you to the past, to the dreams of your youth. It was love at first sight for me when I was 25, but I could not afford one then.

The 356 is not about brute power. iT is about finesse. And a 46 year old car will not get you luxury, but then I do not use it as a daily driver. It is well built (actually hand built) but still spartan. As I said, you require a romantic heart.

Hope this helps.

Derek

TOMARTOM
8th Jul 2003, 05:16 PM
I once thought when I was younger that chicks did Fiat 500's


maybee not...

regards Tony


Anyway for the money and restricted use the compressor sounds like a good buy, is it still covered by the 2 year replecement warranty.

regards

tony..

Goldy
8th Jul 2003, 05:36 PM
To use a air gas cylinders as a air storeage is easy. Make sure there is no gas left in the cylinder of coarse and just remove the old fittings. As gas fittings on cylinders are bspt and can just replace the fittings with normal air fittings that you can get from any tool supplier eg sweetmans etc. I use a old forklift cylinder because it has a few extra fiitngs on it so I just use one as a inlet and attaced a female air socket. so you can run a air line from your compressor to the cylinder. Then attached a air regulator as a outlet so you can very the air pressure for painting. easy.

but end of the day works great for spray painting but will only get a short use out of air tools comes down to cfm.

bye goldy

John Saxton
8th Jul 2003, 08:42 PM
Onya Derek,good to see a little respect for something that qualifies as quality.

Admire the dedication to restoration of anything if it's done well and not necessarily giving way to the modernistic view of living solely for today`

BIG thumbs up.

Cheers:)

kenmil
8th Jul 2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by derekcohen
Ken

In answer to your query 'why'.

................. As I said, you require a romantic heart.

Hope this helps.

Derek

Thank you Derek, very eloquently put. I would still crush it for scrap myself, but I think I see why you like it. The romantic heart bit is what I lack. Too old, too cynical, and too cold hearted.;)

arose62
9th Jul 2003, 12:27 PM
I saw an ancient piece of Chinese wisdom somewhere that said:

"Every man, during his life, should build a house, father a child, and write a book"

Given the changes in society, it pretty much maps to doing something worthwhile, which requires a large chunk of dedication and perseverance, in the areas of hand, heart, and brain.

Personal satisfaction, and a sense of achievement are what it's about; the travails of the path towards the goal, not the goal itself.

Some restore cars, others houses, old tools, or boats, some collect belly-button fluff (at least that can't be defected or crushed).

Cheers,
Andrew

Iain
9th Jul 2003, 02:50 PM
You want a ahead of its time, I have a friend in Beechworth who has a 1920 something BSA car, 4 cylinder twin overhead cam alloy engine coupled to a 4 speed all synchro gearbox, also in an alloy case.
When I saw it on the bench I thought it was a new Corolla gearbox.
Car never sold well, don't know why, its incredibly reliable.
Love the Porsche though, would love one (or two).

Sir Stinkalot
16th Jul 2003, 07:39 PM
Sorry to get back to the air compressor ... but I have just noticed in the supercheap catalogue that they have a 2HP direct drive air compressor with regulator for $99 saving $100. You have to buy an air tool but that can be as simple as a chaep spray gun for $20. It doesn't state the size of the tank. Anybody have any ideas?

derekcohen
16th Jul 2003, 07:52 PM
What and where is "Supercheap"? I assume it is a tool shop. How do I access it and/or their catalogue? Do they have a website?

Thanks

Derek

Sir Stinkalot
16th Jul 2003, 08:04 PM
Fair point you have there Derek .....

I found the catalogue in the mail box after returning from work :)

No Super Cheap Auto are here in Victoria with around 28 stores .... they do have a web site but it sucks ..... Stinky now going to another window to find it .... dir Stinky ... check the catalogue ..... Supercheap Auto (http://www.supercheapauto.com)
The unit only havs a 1 year warranty ... the GMC I assume would have 2 years. I am just after something to blow dust around .... possibly basic spraying (the back fence), and if possible sanding, drilling and nailing .... I don't mind having to wait to fill the tank as I would only use it once in a blue moon.

All looks as if it is in many states :)

journeyman Mick
16th Jul 2003, 09:38 PM
Nailing and stapling is no problem with a small compressor; spraying is possible if you aren't planning to do it on any sort of production basis and you use a gun which has a pretty low air consumption; drilling, sanding or any other tool which requires a constant supply of air to run it is out. You'll spend more time waiting for the compressor to recover than actually sanding, grinding or drilling.

Mick

Dean
17th Jul 2003, 12:14 AM
Go the GMC I say...

Had a look at it at Bunnies the other day and it seems solid enough, and yes it does have 2 year warranty (so the box says).

Not a bad deal for $99 really. Probably get a good number of years service out of it if looked after correctly.

Breaker
1st Aug 2003, 03:19 PM
Big W in S.A. has air compressor (oil, 206 lt/p.m., 122lt line supply) with paint spray can and line (nitto fittings) for $148.00. Tank is 24 lt. Very happy with the unit. :D

John G
1st Aug 2003, 05:06 PM
Can someone explain what would be missing from a $99 GMC compressor compared to an expensive model? My guesses would be:
- does it run a lot louder? Maybe not as well built/balanced whatever?
- does it run hotter/more often? If build cheaply, maybe has more leakage around the compressor and hoses?
- no drainage valve. What is the issue with not having one? The tank rusts? Or water gets into your paint? Is there a way around this? Or is the lesson to never buy one without drainage?

If you are going to use it just for some nailing, a small amount of spraying (of furtinure, maybe a fence), and for cleaning, is there a reason not to get the $99 GMC?

Dean
1st Aug 2003, 05:14 PM
>>- does it run a lot louder? Maybe not as well built/balanced whatever?

Not sure about the loudness, but all these little suckers are pretty loud!

>>- does it run hotter/more often? If build cheaply, maybe has more leakage around the compressor and hoses?

more often depends on tank size. Bigger the tank, the less it has to run. Leakage should be nil on any new compressor. Hose leakage can be fixed some some thread tape.

- no drainage valve. What is the issue with not having one? The tank rusts? Or water gets into your paint? Is there a way around this? Or is the lesson to never buy one without drainage?

The GMC does have a drainage valve underneath the tank. You kinda need one to prevent the rust. You will need an inline water trap to catch any moisture produced as a result of compressed air cooling.

Sparying is the only problem you may have. The compressor will be running quite frequently for a large spray project. As for nail guns, you will be fine. I have same size tank on my compressor and can shoot about 30-40 brads and few less finish nails before she kicks in again to refill the tank.

Red neck
1st Aug 2003, 06:41 PM
Cheap compressors Ėv- expensive ones!


The efficiency of the pump design seems to be a major factor in compressors. They are rated by air delivery. This is usually presented as free air delivery in litres per minute. Obviously output is a function of input and therefore pump capacity and motor size play an important part. So does RPM although excessive RPM may impede the efficiency value of the pump.

On paper, the free air delivery of a particular capacity pump may be increased by upping the RPM of the motor. In reality compressor efficiency and excessive heat generated will compromise the calculations. Since temperature affects pressure hot air is a handicap to output.

Some manufacturers claimed cubic feet per minute deliveries that were overstated. More recently manufacturers have embarked on a path of honesty. Compressors these days are placarded with pump displacement and free air delivery as tested. Two in my neck of the woods are described as follows:

Puma 13: 250 litre pump displacement. 177 l/min free air delivery.
Renegade RP13: 300 litres pump displacement. 190 l/min free air delivery.

Originally they were sold as 13 cfm compressors. My own unit which is Italian has a 307 litre pump with 217 l/min free air delivery. Interestingly the manufacturer claimed the unit consumed 10.8 cfm for an output of 6.2cfm! Obviously the Europeans donít pad their figures.

A good quality single stage compressor will probably have twin cylinders, belt drive and plenty of horse power. I understand that the cfm output of a compressor is roughly four times the hp of the motor. The Puma and Renegade mentioned above are both good units with 2hp motors and retail around $700. My Italian job has a 3hp motor and retails around $800.

For spray painting go for the biggest unit you can afford. For home use (other than spray painting) a direct drive unit should give good service but most tradesmen will choose the belt drive units with cast iron cylinders for long life. In any event the compressor is the least expensive component. Regulators, water traps, spray guns, nailers, drills, sanders, etc. will add considerably to the cost of going pneumatic!

alf t
1st Aug 2003, 08:11 PM
Ken, You and I could Do Hand Cut Dovetails together!!!!
Originally posted by derekcohen
Wood Borer

Wood in the car? I would love to have more wood in the car, as long as it was original. I have replaced the original (VW-like) steering wheel with a wood Derrington, which was an optional extra in its day. Looking at this, I am sure I could build one myself - they look like an inner, single piece core of aluminium sandwiched between laminated timbers. Mine looks like mahogany. One of these days I'm going to build one out of Aussie timbers (just for fun). I also have a mind to turn a gearshift knob out of jarrah or something. In fact, the other day I was tracking a set of Porsche cufflinks on eBay because they were miniture versions of the hood badge, and I thought they would be a good size to recess into the top of a wooden gearshift knob. Unfortunately they went for more than I could justify. I'll stick to the original ivory plastic knob I have (which took me a year to find - when I got Harry he came with something that resembled a crystal candelabra!).

Here a pic of the Derrington steering wheel:

Regards from Perth

Derek

kenmil
1st Aug 2003, 08:46 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused:

alf t
2nd Aug 2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by kenmil
:confused: :confused: :confused: Probably a bit subtle Ken.
Just thought that hand cut dovetails were probably in the same category as lovely old Porche. They are both for the enthusiast but not very practical.
Alf

GC
2nd Aug 2003, 11:12 PM
I was at the local bunnings today and watched a total of 4 GMC compressors being sold within 30 minutes.

GC

kenmil
3rd Aug 2003, 12:25 AM
Yes Alf, now I get it - and you are right.

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