Angle Grinders and Gloves

[ramonski72]

Ok, I've always worn leather gloves when using an angle grinder to be safe.
However, I've been told recently that this is actually a dangerous practice in that the glove can get caught in the rotating kit, pinch, and take fingers with it.
This seems feasible but now I don't know - what do you guys think. Should gloves be worn or not?

[DJ’s Timber]

Never wear gloves with machinery that have moving parts, have seen it happen to 2 different guys and lets just say it's not a pleasant view.

[Article99]

Never wear gloves with machinery that have moving parts, have seen it happen to 2 different guys and lets just say it's not a pleasant view.

In the toolroom I'm at, some blokes wear cotton gloves to keep their hands a bit cleaner. Unfortunately their hands still cop a fair bit of dust and grime and pretty much any grinding wheel will drag their hand in if it gets so much as a whiff of cotton.

Leather gloves may, however, be a bit different, as leather is generally quite resistant to abrasion and may not get grabbed like a cotton or placky glove would. Myself, I still wouldn't bet a finger on it tho. :wink:

[BobL]

Never wear gloves with machinery that have moving parts, have seen it happen to 2 different guys and lets just say it's not a pleasant view.

In general I agree, but I wouldn't say "never". For examble I wear gloves when using chainsaws and jackhammers, although this is more for comfort than safety - although some might say that comfort eventually translates into safety.

[dazzler]

I have often worn those big blue type leather gloves when grinding to stop all the metal sparks/shavings burning my hands.

I understand the logic of not wearing them but it would be pretty damned hard to get your fingers caught with an angle grinder seeing as one is on the handle and one is on the main body.

I think DJS is technically right but this may be an exception. Metal filings embedded in the skin slowly rusting into the blood supply may be just as bad as becoming Captn hook :?

[joe greiner]

I'd say it's a mixed bag. Although gloves seem to increase safety, they not only can get caught but they also can reduce control of the tool because your sense of feel is reduced. Best bet is to practice with both chain saws and grinders to better learn their behaviours, and then dispense with the gloves. And NEVER employ the trigger lock; if you sense loss of control, drop it and run.

Joe

[Cliff Rogers]

Shirt sleeves & shirt tails can also get caught in moving machinery too, if they are loose.
The emphisys here is on loose.

[SPIRIT]

never wear glove bloody dangers habit ,just remember never pick things up that you just cut:oo:

[BobL]

I'd say it's a mixed bag. Although gloves seem to increase safety, they not only can get caught but they also can reduce control of the tool because your sense of feel is reduced. Best bet is to practice with both chain saws and grinders to better learn their behaviours, and then dispense with the gloves. And NEVER employ the trigger lock; if you sense loss of control, drop it and run.

Joe

My experience with chainsaws and jackhammers is that after using them for a more than say 10 minutes my hands start to go numb and after about 30 minutes of use my hands will be completely numb. Soft leather gloves with extra padding in the palms and fingers really reduce this problem significantly. I figure I am less dangerous with these gloves than without. Grinders are not the sort of thing I use for long periods so I have no problem with using them without gloves.

PS: Stihl recommends the use of gloves at all times especially to counteract users affected by vibration.

[Waldo]

G'day,

I'll go with Djstimber and Cliff, never wear gloves for the reasons they already said. Only time I'll wear gloves is for welding...

when I'm trying to stuff up two bits of metal, which is a change from stuffing up bits of timber. :D

[Santalum]

Morning all, the old adage is never wear gloves with rotating machinery:no: Jon.

[Rodt68]

G'Day Everyone,

Gloves are like any item of PPE. If they are not worn properly or are not the right type or they don't fit they can contribute to causing an injury.

If you are using the equipment innapropriately then you will more than likely have an incident regardless of the PPE. Most peoples' nature though is that they wear PPE and then feel like they are protected and it is this attitude that leads to a false sense of security.

By far the most injuries I have seen with grinders has come from objects hitting the hands or arms (usually due to removed guards) and "white knuckle" (numbness etc).

Like always you should evaluate what the job is and how you get hurt and then determine if the PPE is an adequate enough control but never think it is the ultimate control.

Cheers

Rod

[Cliff Rogers]

...I'll go with Djstimber and Cliff, never wear gloves for the reasons they already said. ..
I didn't say NOT to wear them.... my comment was about LOOSE clothing.


..Gloves are like any item of PPE. If they are not worn properly or are not the right type or they don't fit they can contribute to causing an injury....
That is what I meant.

I do wear gloves, I have different gloves for different jobs.
When I work close to moving or rotating things, I wear heavy tough leather gauntlets.
I had my left hand slip off the front grip of my chainsaw & it hit the rotating chain... lucky I had my gloves on 'cos I hit a new chisel 404 chain tip & all it did was rip a bit out of the finger of the glove. :oo:

I also have woven cotton gloves for some jobs & they are a good close fit. They are fine near a grinding wheel but I wouldn't wear them near a wire wheel or a chainsaw.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I think it is good to wear a welding glove when grinding but on the hand that is on the trigger. Thats the hand that is away from the blade - its also the one that cops the sparks.

Its also not a good idea to use a grinder if you are wearing a tutu as the sparks can be quite dangerous.

[Cliff Rogers]

...Its also not a good idea to use a grinder if you are wearing a tutu as the sparks can be quite dangerous.
How do you know? :?

[Waldo]

Its also not a good idea to use a grinder if you are wearing a tutu as the sparks can be quite dangerous.

G'day,

Besides it's a Code Vilation anyway, unless there's something different in the sheila's Code :shrug:

[Bleedin Thumb]

G'day,

Besides it's a Code Vilation anyway, unless there's something different in the sheila's Code :shrug:


Geeez that code can be a bit repressive sometimes can't it.

I bet there's a whole section on taffata!:wink:

[Buzza]

Riggers gloves are much better fitting than the cheaper half leather half cotton gloves that tend to flop around. Upright drills and any glaves at all do not mix. :oo:

Just this morning Number 1 son told me off for wearing riggers gloves to cut old corrugated iron. He then reached over a freshly cut sheet to take the grinder off me, and I had to tell him how dangerous freshly cut edges of this scalpel sharp stuff is and also full of tetanus and such stuff.

Riggers gloves for me, and I'll keep my fingers crossed. :D

[soundman]

In my opinion this is one of those overgeneralised and inconsistent view areas.
For example in the US it seems that operating a saw bench in long sleves is a major danger BUT it seems just fine to work without a guard or a riving knife.

No gloves with rotating machinery is a typical over generalisation.

I would not use any sort of glove when hand grinding small parts on a bench grinder or similarly on a wire wheel.

Should you ever wear gloves when using a bench grinder, well I recon in some situations yes.
example..... Boily (boilermaker) grinding burs and daggs of freshly cut large square pieces of large section steel using a 10" 2 hp grinder
I would expect him to be wearing gloves, an apron and full face protection, because the various risks to the hands from heat, sparks and sharp edges is high and the entrapment risk is low particularly if proper work method has been established.

I most certainly wear gloves when using a chain saw.... not always but when I am working with rough material and brush.
Lets see you prune a large boganvillia without gloves:D

With a chain saw the predominant safety issue with hands is.....

they should both be on the handles...

. I dont think a chain saw would care gloves or no gloves it wants pieces of you and will take them if you put any part of you near the blade.

The most common injuries to boilermakers and related trades are, burns to the hands and metal in the eyes.
If working with metal, hot metal is an ever present risk. the predominating issue is the protection of the hands, body and eyes from hot metal

Besides both hands should be on the grinder while the wheel is rotating.

Proper use of Personal Protective Equipment is a matter of carefull risk assessment and not a mater for gross and often irrelivant generalisations

One of the other major issues of PPE is that it should be fit for purpose and should properly fit the user.

Should you wear glove when using an angle grinder?

If there is a risk of injury to your hands that gloves will protect you from,
Most certainly YES.
Is there a risk of entrapment?
If the gloves are appropriate and fit properly....AND you have both hands on the machine handles/ body while the disk is rotating....very remote.

Safety is not a matter for generalisations.

cheers

[SPIRIT]

try the new gloves at bunnings ironclad l think they are called much better fit than riggers :2tsup:

[Santalum]

In my opinion this is one of those overgeneralised and inconsistent view areas.
For example in the US it seems that operating a saw bench in long sleves is a major danger BUT it seems just fine to work without a guard or a riving knife.

No gloves with rotating machinery is a typical over generalisation.

I would not use any sort of glove when hand grinding small parts on a bench grinder or similarly on a wire wheel.

Should you ever wear gloves when using a bench grinder, well I recon in some situations yes.
example..... Boily (boilermaker) grinding burs and daggs of freshly cut large square pieces of large section steel using a 10" 2 hp grinder
I would expect him to be wearing gloves, an apron and full face protection, because the various risks to the hands from heat, sparks and sharp edges is high and the entrapment risk is low particularly if proper work method has been established.

I most certainly wear gloves when using a chain saw.... not always but when I am working with rough material and brush.
Lets see you prune a large boganvillia without gloves:D

With a chain saw the predominant safety issue with hands is.....

they should both be on the handles...

. I dont think a chain saw would care gloves or no gloves it wants pieces of you and will take them if you put any part of you near the blade.

The most common injuries to boilermakers and related trades are, burns to the hands and metal in the eyes.
If working with metal, hot metal is an ever present risk. the predominating issue is the protection of the hands, body and eyes from hot metal

Besides both hands should be on the grinder while the wheel is rotating.

Proper use of Personal Protective Equipment is a matter of carefull risk assessment and not a mater for gross and often irrelivant generalisations

One of the other major issues of PPE is that it should be fit for purpose and should properly fit the user.

Should you wear glove when using an angle grinder?

If there is a risk of injury to your hands that gloves will protect you from,
Most certainly YES.
Is there a risk of entrapment?
If the gloves are appropriate and fit properly....AND you have both hands on the machine handles/ body while the disk is rotating....very remote.

Safety is not a matter for generalisations.

cheers
PPE is and always will be a last line of defense and will never compensate for poor work practices,
As a general safety rule I stand by my statement re rotating machinery.
Appropriate use of PPE and safe work practices are not open for negotiation, in my workplace it is mandatory, deviate and pay the price.
Yes I am responsible for and care about the daily safety of a large group of people, and our incident rate is negligible.
Jon.

[journeyman Mick]

Jon,
just wondering what sort of industry you're in? Whilst generally I don't like wearing gloves at all, especially when using any form of tool there are exceptions. If using an angle grinder on steel for any more than a quick cut I'd want a glove on my right hand (trigger hand). I'm not really fond of getting burnt or having steel splinters embed themselves in my fingers. If using a wire buff on an angle grinder I'd definitely wear gloves on both hands, I've had to use pliers to remove wires from my leg after using a buff (ouch!:oo: ). Like Soundman says, generalisations aren't helpful. Lots of workplaces have blanket safety rules because they assume (sometimes correctly) that their workers won't take the proper steps to protect themselves. So in your workplace, would you give someone the boot for wearing gloves whilst using an angle grinder for either of the two operations I've mentioned? Personally I use my own judgement to assess risk, plan work practice and judge what types of PPE are appropriate. I'm sorry, but I just don't trust anyone else to decide what is safe for me.

Mick

[Rodt68]

You are in the minute minority there Mick.

I had a guy say to me the other day that he doesn't need to wear a face shield while using an angle grinder on the side of a bridge because he holds his head to one side while he grinds (at head height and above).

He could prove that this was a great control measure because he had never been hurt before. I asked if he has ever heard of anyone getting hurt with grinders because of sparks. He said yes but it was their fault because they were idiots.

If you operate grinders the way they are supposed to be operated safely an appropriate glove will never drag a finger in IMHO.

Different equipment has different hazards and it is usually complacency ("I have never been hurt before") and indifferent attitudes that leads to injury or worse.

Sorry about the safety rant. The years of seeing injuries and incidents from stupid things such as incorrect PPE (if using at all) have jaded me to people's perceptions on this stuff.

Thank god it is Friday:2tsup:

Cheers

Rod

[Bleedin Thumb]

Even if your glove was to touch your wheel I doubt that it would get caught. - I'm assuming hand held grinder with cut off wheel. Even a bench grinder with a stone I find it hard to imagine that wearing a glove would be more dangerous than not wearing one.

I'd rather hit a wheel or stone with some leather on that with my bare skin, not to mention protection from sparks.

Come to think of it any small bit of machinery is going to do you more damage if it hits you without gloves than with. If you go up to a larger machine that has the power to grab you and pull you into itself well thats a different matter.

[BobL]

RE; Even if your glove was to touch your wheel I doubt that it would get caught.

If you use gloves with a "naked" grinding wheel the chances of getting it caught are I agree very low. The problem is when gloves get caught between wheels and guards. I've seen idiots not caring if gloves touch wheels so they can get in even closer to a wheel to do what they want to do. When the slip, as they invariably do, if the glove gets jammed between the piece, wheel and guard it has not been a pretty sight!

[Master Splinter]

When it comes to bench grinders (as a grinder, wire wheel or buffer), if I'm doing something that makes me think about putting gloves on, I take that as a hint that I'm doing it wrong and need to re-think what I'm doing.

I got myself a few of the cheap pairs of locking pliers and I keep them located at the bench grinder. Instead of reaching for gloves, I reach for the pliers to hold things.

[joe greiner]

Instead of reaching for gloves, I reach for the pliers to hold things.

You bet. Small things get really warm really fast.

Joe

[journeyman Mick]

I've said it before and I'll say it again now, I reckon the most important safety equipment is the stuff between your ears. Understanding the process and the risks allows you to make an informed decision on how best to safely complete an operation. In most power tool operations gloves aren't appropriate but the risk of burns and splinters needs to be weighed against the risk of getting a glove jammed in between the guard and wheel. I believe the risk of getting burns or steel splinters much higher than the other risk and work accordingly.

Mick (who in years of trade work with dangerous spinning bitey things has used less than a packet of band aids)

[Article99]

You bet. Small things get really warm really fast.

Joe

Don't press so hard onto the wheel, mate. Take your time and traverse the job across the face with a light pressure. Heat will still be generated, but much slower and it may even settle down to a warm bit of metal, rather than a scolding piece of metal.:2tsup:

[soundman]

Unfortunately workplace health and safety is an area where there is far to much mis-information, old outdated methods(that were never safe), management politics and gross overreaction.

In the situation of over reaction there are a number of work places that have tried to ban all sharp and/or pointy things. One bloke I spoke to last week said that because ONE idiot stabed homself is the leg because of blatantly stupid and dangerous practise, all stanley knives have been banned from use by his technicians (by high level management).


On the matter of entrapment hazards.....most of these risks should be able to be minimised.
Either gaps should be opened up or closed up to minimise the risk. on a bench grinder this means keeping your tool rest properly adjusted with minimal clearance.

I am constantly amazed at the various " safety" devices offered for the table saw. most of them would certainly be illegal in an industrial setting in europe and probaly here.......
Anybody that sprouts any sort of safety method or device but does not use a blade guard on a table saw except for minimal special operations in my has no credibility at all in my opinion.

There is still a whole range of outdated " safety procedures" STILL being given credance, procedures that were nothong more than lip service procedures to placate workers under unsafe conditions.
Other commonly held views evolved due to acceptance of persistant unsafe methods.....those views and safety provcedures become redundant when the unsafe situation is removed or better dealt with.

Typical is the matter of exposed rotating machinery, drive shafts and belts.
There would have been a whole culture concerning exposed drives early to mid last century...... those matters should now be almost redundant as exposed drives are considered almost universaly unacceptable.

There are also WHS practicioners in workplaces who most certainly do not know their stuff as well as they should. Particularly when it comes to the more technical issues like hearing protection, radiation and poisons exposure.

We all need to be careful about the sources and adequacy of WHS advice and information. Afterall we are all responsible for our own safety.
We need to be looking at and for the risks, and we need to be asking how and why. And specificaly where and what is the greatest risk.
For a heavy metal worker hot metal is an ever present and unavoidable part of the work, so that is the predominating risk.
Grinding is "hot work", sorry it cant be done cold or even warm in most cases.

enough for now .

cheers

[underfoot]

is there anyone out there who uses an arbortech(or equivalent)
and does not wear a glove on the trigger hand.??can't be done.:no:
or can it?
underfoot

[soundman]

AHH no that depends on where the switch is on your grinder, switc at the head or at the tail.
Many dirty trades prefer a switch at the tail of their smaller grinders because the last longer without getting full of rubbish.

Why would you bother putting a glove on one hand when both hands are suposed to be on tha machine.

OH
Interersting that many manufacturers make a big deal of the fact that the switches on their grinders are designed to be easy to opperate with a gloved hand.:U

cheers

[underfoot]

Why would you bother putting a glove on one hand when both hands are suposed to be on tha machine.

cheers
I'm guessing you have'nt used a rotary carving disc on an angle grinder.
both hands on machine, guard in place , all appropriate safety gear on..
each tooth removes about 0.5mm per pass x 6 teeth per disc ,rotating @
12000rpm .(I don't do maths).aiming chips at my recently manicured digits
like machine gun fire. . no glove,draws blood,hurts hand ,drops tool..
cheers underfoot.

[joe greiner]

Can't quite tell which drum you're beating, underfoot. I use a Lancelot disc in a right-angle grinder with trigger at the rear. No gloves. Main thing about these machines is practice, practice, practice, until you can better predict its behaviour. I can now almost duplicate the finish of a belt sander. Always anchor the workpiece to something solid, and never employ the trigger lock.

Joe

[underfoot]

Can't quite tell which drum you're beating, underfoot. I use a Lancelot disc in a right-angle grinder with trigger at the rear. No gloves. Main thing about these machines is practice, practice, practice, until you can better predict its behaviour. I can now almost duplicate the finish of a belt sander. Always anchor the workpiece to something solid, and never employ the trigger lock.

Joe
Haven't used a lancelot joe ,so I don't know its characteristics,
maybe its different,What I meant was that ,an arbortech, when held correctly , spits chips back at the hand holding the grinder hard enough
to draw blood,therefore the glove.:rolleyes: or maybe it's just me?
underfoot

[soundman]

My point wasn't to not wear gloves, rather that gloves like hands come in pairs (generaly) why wouldn't you put on both gloves?

cheers

[Bleedin Thumb]

Soundman its called the Michael Jackson effect. After you finish your grinding you punch the air with your one gloved hand, then moon walk backwards to your bench then quickly spin on your toes whilst letting out a sharp high pitched WOO.

Quite invigorating actually.

[journeyman Mick]

.............and never employ the trigger lock.

Joe

Joe,
I'd suggest you remove or disable the trigger lock when using any form of aggressive toothed blade. I've seen a couple of absolutely horrific industrial accidents involving grinders and toothed blades.

Mick

[soundman]

As said before, in other posts, angle grinders are a lot more dangerous than most people give them credit..... and thtas with a grinder blade in them.

As I mentioned before I know bloke that cut his foot amost off above the ankle with a 9" angle grinder fitted with a grinding disk.

Theya derseve a lot of respect.... in certain situations thay can kick back savagely... AND they make a horible dirty wound.

The best safety measure is........ two firm hands on the machine.

cheers

[silentC]

in certain situations thay can kick back savagely... AND they make a horible dirty wound.
I know a bloke with a permanent smile to prove it...

[soundman]

OH the michael jackson effect.

Yep I've seen that one.

A boiler maker grinding away merrily:cool: :) , not having his top button done up.
A smallish piece of hit metal breaks away from the end of the job being ground,:( bounces off this & that ( as it bounces he turns his head to watch it) and goes straight down the front of his shirt.:no:
Drops the grinder, jumps back with an OOWH:oo: , takes several steps backward shaking his shirt (that was tucked in).... still hot metal fragment continues and lodges in the crutch of the trousers:oo: :oo: ..... he spins arround grabs his crutch with another OOWH:o :C :o ...... bends his knees and shakes his ass till the metal tumbles down his trouser leg...... which causes him to stand on one leg and shake the other.:? .....the still hot piece of metal then falls into the open top of his boot.:oo: .... thinking quick without hesitation he drops to the floor in the splits with his head pressed to one knee so he can reach into his boot and remove the metal.:~ ....sticks the fingers of his ungloved hand into the boot flicks out the matal (finally) onto the ground but burns his fingers:o ..... lets out another OOWH..... this causes him to recoil flat onto his back shaking the hand over his head.... BUT..... he finds hot metal on the ground behind his back.:oo: .... which causes him to arch his back and jump straight to his feet .

at this point he runs out of the workshop ( stage left) to get first aid for his multiple burns.

Look at any of the thriller era jackson coriography and you will see this theme.
Some would say that the coriographer was a genius...... I disagree.... he must have been a welder.

:D :D :D cheers

[DJ’s Timber]

:lolabove: :clap: :rotfl: :roflmao2: :roflmao: :)) :clap3: :clap2:

[manoftalent]

using power tools that cut is a bit like sex .....either you do the job properly .....or dont bother at all:U

[ramonski72]

To glove or not to glove...And I thought I was asking a simple question! Thanks for all the feedback guys. Funnily enough I also got conflicting answers from the toolshops from 2 different bunnings stores.

[Just George]

What is the reason you want to use gloves? If it's to protect your hands from any sparks, change the angle so the sparks go away from you.

And as someone mentioned, always use you PPE, I saw someone using an angle grinder today without safety glasses or ear muffs.

[journeyman Mick]

What is the reason you want to use gloves? If it's to protect your hands from any sparks, change the angle so the sparks go away from you.................
Not always possible, or more accurately, rarely possible. If you're using a 9" grinder with a cutting disc to cut a piece of plate the only way to hold it so that it doesn't kick back will have a stream of hot sparks showering your right hand. Also when using a wire buff, there's no knowing in which direction it will spit out bits of wire.

Mick

[Grahame Collins]

Honestly I believe that gloves are a greater hazard than the sparks,which can be controlled in other ways.

Consider the following, as the ripping of a fart up, of those who routinely ignore all common sense and safety procedures re grinders of any sort.

Talk to anyone who has worked in the accident / emergency ward of any hospital. Angle grinders are the number 1 in the stats tool for accidents to the pros and Diys alike.

Anybody that uses one without the guard or the handle is a fool. Two hands is the correct procedure

The bigger they are the more torque they produce. What sometimes happens is that the tool, used as a cutter, jams, then moves in an unexpected manner and a loss of control is experienced.

Building workers have cut their femoral arteries and bled to death after misusing a 9" grinder to cut reo bars.

Some of the better, newer models have a soft start built in.The feature helps with the unexpected torque hazard.

Guards are adjustable to catch the sparks and handles are able to be changed from left to right hand mountings.

And thats just the loss of control accidents. Other injuries are caused by fitting incorrectly fitting wheels to grinders.

Thats another post in itself.

go here to read what wiki pedia say on it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_grinder



Grahame

[soundman]

The reasons for using gloves with a grinder vary.

In the matal trades the main risk is handling sharp and/or hot material whilst handling the work to be ground.

The secondary risk, still a good one is Flying Hot Waste (sparks & bigger) the problem in many situations is that FHW can easily be deflected of nearby objects and features of the work and can easily come bach on you.

The exploding grinding disk is always a good one too. This is a real risk and does happen. Pieces go everywhere.
This happened to me once on a 9", it was unpleasant but I was lucky.(some luck but more PPE)
Ever since I have refused to work with any cheap grinder consumables.

Many of those who don't wear various PPE with grinders will tell you they know where the stream of FHW is going & is under their control.
UNTIL they learn to dance like MJ or worse they end up with hot metal in their eye.
The funniest one:D :D is to see a big gruff "boily" cop a good hot spark fair up the nostril.:o

In the 70's & 80's removal of metal from the eye was something lots of doctors got very good at as they had plenty of practise.
Since the 80's the WHS thing has ramped up..... fortunately.

other reasons to wear gloves with a grinder.

Minimise the effects of vibration.

Protect the hands against knocks & being jammed against work or other objects WHEN the grinder kicks back.

Keeping the hands clean, dusts from metal and stone can get very agressivly stuck to and in the skin particulary in the presence of sweat.
This material can be very hard to remove from the hands. This grit can also find its way into the eyes from the hands.

And thats without considering the special risks of wire brushes, diamond blades, saw blades, rotary carvers and other stuff that gets attached to grinders.

cheers

[Bleedin Thumb]

I always tackle using my 9" grinder like I use my large circular saw.

I am always in control.

I have tension in my forearms, comfortable stance with my legs wide apart and if ...or more accurately when the blade jams I can take up the force and either butch through it or ease off without kickback.

I strapping big Maori chippy that worked for me years ago taught me that lesson...you are always in control of the tool, not the other way around.

As far as torque goes well yes they twist when you switch them on. Another reason to hold them firmly. If you dont have upper body strength greater than the torque? of the machine then you should think about down sizing the machine.

Gloves are no impediment to holding these types of hand tools and can prevent injuries. Getting gloves caught in these types of tools is a crock, if you are holding your grinder firmly this wouldn't happen. Sparks and broken wheels do happen.

I suspect the injuries from grinders are to people who haven't had the experience or training on how to use them or they have put the grinder down as the wheel is still spinning either way i doubt that they are related to glove wearing.

[toddles]

Talk to anyone who has worked in the accident / emergency ward of any hospital. Angle grinders are the number 1 in the stats tool for accidents to the pros and Diys alike.

Sorry Grahame - that's not true. "Hand Tools" - including screwdrivers, utility knives, hammers, etc. are the most common cause of tool injuries in emergency ward admissions. There are almostd double the emergency admissions for "Hand Tool" accidents than Saws - half which are table or bench saw injuries. Saw injuries are four times more prevalent than the next two categories "Drills and Power Drills" and "Welders, Soldering irons and Cutting Torches". These are followed closely by "Grinders, Polishers and Buffers" , "Hoists, Lifts and Jacks" (responsible for the most deaths) and "Nail Guns" all with about the same admission levels.



Anybody that uses one without the guard or the handle is a fool.

That's a little unkind and otherwise just plain untrue. I have worked professionally as a concrete repairer and my work often consisted of using medium to large grinders all day, often high off the ground, finishing tilt-up panels. Using guards often meant using the grinder at unsafe angles and we frequently removed them for certain jobs. There sole purpose is to redirect or deflect some debri. We would NEVER use the handles on the grinders smaller than 9.25". The correct technique was to have your thumb on the switch and your hand wrapped around the motor chassis and your second hand supporting the tail. Use of the handle makes it unsafely difficult to quickly switch off the grinder when neccessary. The company is very careful about OHS and correct technique and would scoff at being called fools by yourself. We ALWAYS used well fitting leather or synthetic equivalent gloves - all of which show the scars that would have covered our hands without them. No one would think of working with bare hand let alone without proper gloves - there is nothing dangerous about using them. Safety glasses and dust respirators were also required equiptment.

[soundman]

Aparantly the incidence of grinder injuries is on the rise...... or so a spokesman from one of the hospitals says on the news a while ago....... lots of untrained weeked warriors getting hold of cheap power tools.

there are always good reasons for removing guards from all sorts of machines.
Unfortunately I have seen a lot of grinders that have had the guard removed and it has not been replaced and is and has been used without a guard as a matter of course.

There is a real risk of hands comming into contact with the back of the blade if the guard is removed..... particularly with small grinders when used two handed without a side handle.

There are specific applications that require specific techniques.... but most of the time the safest way to use a grinder is two handed with a side handle and the guard fitted.

there is some sort of idea out there that it is an important safety consideration to be able to turn off a grinder quickly....... sorry with small grinders and particulary for most applications........... you have to be kidding.

If you have to turn the grinder off quickly it is obvious that a risky operation is being undertaken........further........ nobodies reflexes are fast enough......at the speed that these things run, by the time you got the switch off...... its all happend.

I note that on larger grinders, almost without exception they have dead man switches....... this is not so you can turn the grinder off quickly......... it is specificaly so that WHEN the machine is ripped from the operators grasp (a real and present risk) it does not continue to remain powerd on thrashing, screaming and grinding what IT wants to.


Workplace health and safety people hate grinders......... why...... because there are lots of people in the trades that use grinders to do all sorts of things where there are much better and safer things to use.

example
I went on site with a bloke to install a projector and some other AV stuff.
Along with the usualy tecko hand tools he braught a 4" angle grinder..... specificaly with the intent of trimming the thin walled pipe on the projector mount.( btw it had no guard). In addition he braught no ear or eye protection.
This was a simple job for a hacksaw or a pipe cutter...... why use a grinder.
The grinder presented a raft of risks to all on the site and to property.
Either the hacksaw or the pipe cutter presented none of those risks.


As a side issue, I have deemed that there will be no hot work done by me or anybody working with me on any customers premises.
this means.
no grinding
no abrasive cutting
no welding
no tools that produce a flame or sparks
and no smoking.
If more people checked with their insurance companies they would do likewise.
It is almost imposible to get insurance for any form of on site hot work.
If it has to be ground or welded it needs to be done in the workshop.

just some thaughts.

cheers

[toddles]

Just read my last post and I should apologise as it reads more abrasively than I would like.:B

I should also add that ear protection was compulsory too.

[DanP]

Anyone who uses an angle grinder without guards is someone who's never seen a blade explode. I have had a 9" blade bite and explode and the only thing that saved my nuts was the guard. Out front, a piece of the blade went straight through a 1" thick timber packing crate.

As to gloves, I wore riggers gloves whenever I picked up a grinder of any size. They saved me from cuts more times than I care to remember. Only once did a grinder get through it and that was when the foreman swapped my guarded grinder for an unguarded one that I refused to use. He did it while I was welding and I didn't even look as I picked it up. He thought it would be funny to trick me into using it...

Dan

PS He didn't think it too funny when the still running, blood covered grinder was thrown at him from across the factory.

[Pulse]

a few anecdotes:

1. A 4 inch grinder with the guard removed to allow fitting of a 9 inch blade. This exploded and one sector embedded into the poor blokes face. His glasses were crumpled into his eye and could not be removed. Chopper to big sydney hospital fast......

2. Using a circular saw with guard retracted to cut a tree root down a hole, finished cutting and placed it on his knee.....


moral of the story is use the guard.

If people are quoting what is the commonest cause of injury they should be quoting sources.

Cheers
Pulse

[2shane]

I dunno I think the issue is circumstantial....

If it's bloody cold and I want my hand warm and I feel comfortable about the amount of grip I am getting on an angle grinder.. fine...

I also might note that it could be said that if one was HOT and Sweaty (Ohh a hot and sweaty Man.. oooo) then a case could be put forward for wearing gloves while using an angle grinder...

I figure that if your brain is switching off enough to not retain a grip on an angle grinder, you should be having a lay down.

Aside from dropping a big grinder onto concrete while it's running and one has the trigger lock engaged, I can't see how you could actually get anything caught up in the disk....

It's guarded, it's a long way from ones fingers.... etc.

But the issues of BIG PEDASTLE grinders....

Hmmmmmmmmm a few good union occ health and safety girls have said...

"Wearing gloves (gauntlet welding gloves) when using a pedastle grinder, IS a BAD idea., cause the odd person on the odd occasion, have caused the glove finger tips to go into the gap between the rest and the wheel and it's taken the whole lot into the unit, and it's torn fingers off, including lengths of tendon etc., out of the arm....."

Sooooo I prefer OPEN wheels (no tool rest - but with a GUARD) on small bench grinders... 150mm - 200mm etc.. and I don't normally wear gloves when using a bench grinder...

The small Bench Grinders, the wheels are too small to carry enough inertia to drag thick gloves in and rip fingers off etc.

But the BIG pedastle grinders, with the 50mm wide x 400+ mm OD wheels, I think I'd rather not wear gloves....

It's the BIG wheeled pedastle grinders the union occ health and safety girls go nutso about people wearing welding gloves, when they are grinding on them...

Angle grinders.. not an issue.

[2shane]

As to gloves, I wore riggers gloves whenever I picked up a grinder of any size. They saved me from cuts more times than I care to remember. Only once did a grinder get through it and that was when the foreman swapped my guarded grinder for an unguarded one that I refused to use. He did it while I was welding and I didn't even look as I picked it up. He thought it would be funny to trick me into using it...

Dan

PS He didn't think it too funny when the still running, blood covered grinder was thrown at him from across the factory.[/quote]



I would have grabbed said foreman, I would have held him to the ground and I would have smashed his face into a pulp with it.....

That or I would have used the grinder to cut his head off...

"Here ya go sport.... laugh at this."

Then I would have gone after every one in the place who either thought it was funny or knew about it and did not speak up about it or do anything to stop the said fool.


Naaaa just kidding... I would have smashed his face in tho..., just to let him know I that I can take a joke just like he can.

[2shane]

The quote:

"That's a little unkind and otherwise just plain untrue. I have worked professionally as a concrete repairer and my work often consisted of using medium to large grinders all day, often high off the ground, finishing tilt-up panels. Using guards often meant using the grinder at unsafe angles and we frequently removed them for certain jobs. There sole purpose is to redirect or deflect some debri. "


Yeah... NO Guards on an angle grinder.. like a 9 1/2" grinder....

The guards..... are not to redirect the debri, or to deflect it..

It's not there for sparks...

The number ONE and ONLY reason why angle grinders have guards, is to stop an exploding wheel from killing you..

The fact it also stops you from being showered in sparks, is simply a bonus.


How you die.

When a wheel going flat out, explodes... well it's like this...

A 9" disk or 23cm OD wheel has a surface speed of 260Kmh - on the outside of the wheel... in the center, it is 0Kmh - and it varies from the inside to the outside.....

So we will just stick to the simple dumb stuff.


9" x 2.54 = ~23cm OD, x 3.142 = 72cm circumference (or 0.72m) x 6000 rpm = 4320 meters a minute. / 60 =. 72 meters a second (at the circumference)...or get 4320m/m x 60 = 259,200m/h / 1000 = 260 Kmh on the outside edge.

Say the disk explodes..... I am not sure what the disks weigh... but deducting all the more complex issues of angular velocity at the outside and inside of the disk, chunk sizes.. inertia, disk density, surface area etc......

In simple terms, when a 9" angle grinder disk explodes... it's a chunk of reinforced rock coming at you, edge on - doing around 260Kmh....

The guard is NOT meant for decoration, or to stop those iccy little sparks...

The guard is designed to containing the chunks of exploding disk heading in your direction, to stop them from punching holes through you, your veins and arteries (jugular etc), your soft internal organs etc.. at 260 Kmh.

Here is some fun medical / occ health and safety / statistics based upon real records.

What is the main hazard, they point out, is USING cutting disks in an angle grinder..... cause they can jam and twist and shatter in use....

(Cutting disks are meant to ONLY be used in fixed and rigid cutting machines, that swing their disk perpendicular to the material being cut, and are so designed that the disk cannot "dig in", OR propery designed cutting machines with VERY heavy full [double sided] guards )

And there are plenty of STUPID people who not only put cutting disks into ANGLE GRINDERS, they also use them without guards....

Here are the facts:


http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin/edcnwssm0170.htm

http://employment.alberta.ca/documents/WHS/WHS-PUB_al024.pdf (http://employment.alberta.ca/documents/WHS/WHS-PUB_al024.pdf)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2818547&dopt=Abstract


Neato facial injury piccy... = Nasty.
http://www.itim.nsw.gov.au/index.cfm?objectid=29F8B358-1321-1C29-70F75420C4862818


http://www.switchbacktechnologies.com/safety.html (http://www.switchbacktechnologies.com/safety.html)

Safety
Stats on Angle Grinder Injuries Worldwide:
Note: information listed has been compiled from different international web sites who supplies injury stats.A). Australia:
Injuries in the workplace are a major source of ill health and disability in Queensland. During 1996-97 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29) there were 36,449 compensated workplace injuries in Queensland. The direct and indirect cost of workplace injuries in the Australian community has been conservatively estimated as being between $15 billion and $37 billion per year.
85% of workplace injuries are to males
Almost half of workplace injuries are to young people aged 15 to 29 years.
21% of workplace injuries are to the eye
Almost one-third of workplace injuries are to the hand
More than a quarter of workplace injuries involve tools of some sort
Grinders contribute to more than 1 in 20 of workplace injurieshttp://www.switchbacktechnologies.com/i/arbor_graphic.jpg (http://www.switchbacktechnologies.com/visual_gallery.html)
Major Injury Factor
An examination of the major injury factors for workplace injuries revealed more than a quarter involved the following tools and equipment: grinders (5%), knives (4%), welding equipment (4%), other power tools (4%), hand tools (3%), other tools (4%) and fixed plant and machinery (2%).
Eye Injuries
Foreign body on the external eye accounted for 71% of the eye injuries while 2% were burns. Grinders and welding equipment were each implicated in 14% of cases while chemical sprays or splashes caused 6% of the injuries.
Most angle grinders injuries involve metal particles lodging in the operator’s eye, however the most severe injuries result from kick-back or when discs shatter or explode. These latter types of injuries have resulted in death and dismemberment. Angle grinders are well known to OH&S organizations across Australia as being one of the most dangerous tools in the workplace (and in the home workshop). The main problem is that these tools are designed for grinding and not cutting; the activity when most serious grinder injuries occur.
USA
Stats from 2000 total of 5,915 fatal work injuries were recorded. Here are some examples of Angle Grinder Injuries
A 46 year old experienced tradesman was seriously injured, lost an arm whilst using a 239mm diameter Angle Grinder. The worker was using the Angle Grinder to cut a light gauge, fixed, metal, stud wall channel at a Karrakatta construction site when the accident occurred. The metal cutting disc fitted to the Angle Grinder caught in the channel being cut and a portion of the disc broke free. The resulting "kick back" violently twisted the Angle Grinder. The worker’s front hand jolted free and the spinning disc on the Angle Grinder careered up into his upper arm. A number of serious accidents involving the use of Angle Grinders have been reported to the department in recent years.
A worker was almost killed in similar circumstances cutting a metal stud wall channel, but for the fact that he was working at the Queen Elizabeth II Medical Center, and promptly received excellent medical treatment.


http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1322767
(http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1322767)
Titre du document / Document title

Angle grinder injuries : a cause of serious head and neck traumaAuteur(s) / Author(s)

WONGPRASARTSUK S. (1) ; LOVE R. L. (1) ; CLELAND H. J. (1) ; Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

(1) Alfred Hospital, Prahran, VIC, AUSTRALIE
Résumé / Abstract

Over the past 12 months, the Victorian Trauma Centre at the Alfred Hospital, Melbourne, has dealt with serious head and neck injuries associated with angle grinder use. Three cases are presented, documenting the circumstances and severity of these injuries and subsequent management. Angle grinder injuries are a source of serious morbidity and mortality, much of which is preventable.Revue / Journal Title

Medical journal of Australia (Med. j. Aust.) ISSN 0025-729X CODEN MJAUAJ Source / Source

2000, vol. 172, no6, pp. 275-277 (14 ref.)Langue / Language

Anglais
Editeur / Publisher

Australasian Medical Publishing Company, Sydney, AUSTRALIE (1914) (Revue)



This is a fun game..

http://www.swsahs.nsw.gov.au/livtrauma/education/sudden/45m.asp

[soundman]

I said they were dangerous things. I some of you thaught I was kiddidding abouth the bloke who almost cut his leg off.


Consider this
I used to use a wolf 9 1/4" angle grinder, it was rated at 2400 watts. Thats as big as you can have with a 10 amp plug. many are similar.

A human.... sorry no a olymic cyclist has a peak power output of 750watts...(for a few seconds)

your typical small lawn mower motor has a power output of 1875 to 2625 watts

a medium sized chainsaw ( sthill 029) has a power output of 2700watts

a decent small table saw has a power output of 2500 watts or better.

typicaly a table saw spins at about 5000 rpm a 9 1/4" grinder spins at 6600 rpm a 4" angle grinder spins at 11000 rpm.

Angle grinders are a safe & usefull tool........ when used with considerable care.

Unfortunately the vast majority of users have no idea of how much power these hand held tools have........the consequences of the power being unleashed in an uncrontrolled manner needs to be apprecieted.

cheers
grinders may not usualy have teeth......... but if you get bitten by one you may hope it did.

[toddles]

The quote:

"That's a little unkind and otherwise just plain untrue. I have worked professionally as a concrete repairer and my work often consisted of using medium to large grinders all day, often high off the ground, finishing tilt-up panels. Using guards often meant using the grinder at unsafe angles and we frequently removed them for certain jobs. There sole purpose is to redirect or deflect some debri. "


Yeah... NO Guards on an angle grinder.. like a 9 1/2" grinder....
....

How you die.

When a wheel going flat out, explodes... well it's like this...

A 9" disk or 23cm OD wheel has a surface speed of 260Kmh - on the outside of the wheel... in the center, it is 0Kmh - and it varies from the inside to the outside.....


I didn't say anything about using a 9 inch grinder without the guard - the boss always operated the large grinder (with a diamond wheel), always with the guard and handle and the grinder was the kind with a deadman's switch at the tail.
Neither did I say anything about using an abrasive cutting disk - we didn't use them - as you point out they can get lethal. We used stones of varying descriptions and rarely at anything close to full speed.
My point wasn't that you can put anything that fits, for instance a circular saw blade, in a grinder and use it safely. It was merely that there are a lot of bold generalizations being made on this thread by people who don't seem to have the experience to provide such a broad view. My experience is certainly limited to a very narrow range of grinder usage in a very specific role but I stand by every point on that post.

[Cliff Rogers]

I didn't say anything about using a 9 inch grinder without the guard - ....
No, you didn't but Dan did, the quote details got lost, it was Dan's quote, not yours. :)

[2shane]

I didn't say anything about using a 9 inch grinder without the guard - the boss always operated the large grinder (with a diamond wheel), always with the guard and handle and the grinder was the kind with a deadman's switch at the tail.
Neither did I say anything about using an abrasive cutting disk - we didn't use them - as you point out they can get lethal. We used stones of varying descriptions and rarely at anything close to full speed.
My point wasn't that you can put anything that fits, for instance a circular saw blade, in a grinder and use it safely. It was merely that there are a lot of bold generalizations being made on this thread by people who don't seem to have the experience to provide such a broad view. My experience is certainly limited to a very narrow range of grinder usage in a very specific role but I stand by every point on that post.


Yeah I probably miscontrued it... even just a bit.... and probably the important bit.

To be honest I kind of read "BIIIIIG angle grinder, no guard...." and carried on form there.

Not that the carry on wasn't useful, in it's own right, and I am not sure what you mean by STONE wheels... as in are they re-enforced abrasive wheels... or diamond type steel wheels.

What all the peeps are saying is that it's basically dumb to use a grinder without guards.

And it's the people who use the angle GRINDERS wiht the THIN FLEXIBLE "CUTTING" wheels or disks, that's because the disks are made to be driven perpendicular through a job, on a rigid and heavially guarded cutting machine, and it's the ignorant or stupid people who then fit them to angle grinders...

The angle grinders are meant to use disks that are designed for SIDE loading...

You press down on the side of the disk...

But when the CUTTING disks are used, some people do use them as GRINDING disks.. (OMG.......... :o Noooooooooooo) or they go cutting with them.. and they jam the disk or twist the disk in the slot - and some times the disks go BANG.

In respect to solid metal wheels with bonded diamond grit on them.....

I reckon they would be pretty safe.... and sure I could crap on about the ONE in a billion wheels....of bad alloy steel with bad heat treatment etc.. or pull my prose about no saw teeth etc...

I mean I wouldn't like to have a live one land in my lap while I am sitting down for lunch...

But I could easially think of much worse....

So using one of the SOLID METAL wheels without a guard... on concrete... Hmmmmm
I would do it if I had too..... but I wouldn't like it...

I mean you can get / make up big fast spinning flywheels with polished covers... which spin with the wheels.. like on some Hardly Rideables....

As long as the drive belt is securely and robustly guarded so ones footsie cannot be fed in between the belt and the clutch or motor sprocket... rubbing ones clothed leg against the spinning cover is not an issue.

But I'd still rather have the whole transmission covered.

Sooooooo yeah... I got it a bit wrong... .


But for the adventurous amongst you... I used to notice how easy it was to STOP a 4" grinder... being driven by a 550W motor and so I saw a 4" tungsten tipped saw blade and went, "Hmmm that's a good 1 1/4"'s or so of cutting gear, and I had run the idea past a few salesmen who went white and said "OH Jeeezers - thou art hexxed by the Debil - Run! Run it's Satan incarnate" and I thought, I get the impression that most of these handlers of the tool, do very little grinding and much handling of the tool... the reaction wasn't based upon logic or experience.

Soooooooooooo I went and tried it..

And using a little saw blade in a 4" angle grinder... well I would not let it run amok, like I ALWAYS check that it isn't turned on BEFORE I plug it in......

But when it's deliberately jamed there is NO kickback.

Think Broomstick.. and 500W blender... the blender JAMS and there is no reaction to even flinch about....

The little saw grinder, is a great way of doing lots of fast or accurate cuts in timber, or ply and masonite.

Chopping up pallets, fencing or disposing of timber etc... brilliant.

BUT at the same time, it doesn't have self releasing switch, so I wouldn't use it with anything other than with a firm grip with both hands, close to the body, and the feet firmly planted on the ground....

And I can see a lot of good reasons for USING a proper and most especially a higher powereed saw, with a proper self retracting or closing guard, on a proper electrical saw.........

But I wouldn't use a BIG SAW in a 230mm angle grinder...... (over head, in one hand, standing on a bar stool...)

NFW.....

That's KAPITAL N as in NO FW.

*
*
*

Actually the SAW is perfectly safe in the little grinder.... It will never explode, there is NO kick back.... etc... perfectly safe... and the more I thought about it... it's really not perfectly safe....

It's still an exposed saw blade., and when it spins it cuts.

Annnnnnnnnd what if the day ever comes, when I am using it and I do trip over or get a shock or something.... sure it won't kick back etc... but if I land on it while it's running... it won't jam then.

And all this talk about Angle Grinders... both of my grinders are small 550W 100mm and a 650W 120mm

One of the things raised about SAFETY gear was the use of a FACE SHIELD..... to protect the head and neck......


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm methinks it's time to get a proper face shield and a proper circular saw with proper guards.


I guess one of the things about safety is that I find myself contemplating using a nicked extension cord.

It's not a big deal in dry and clean environments...

And a few years down the track... you forget all about the tiny nick in the extension cord...


But what happens on the day you use the same cord in the laundry and it floods.....

And that cord is lying in the pool of water......

And you run in there with bare feet and touch the metal wash basin....



Methinks it's time to get a face shield and a proper saw with a proper safety guard.


Time for an upgrade.

[toddles]

Yeah I probably miscontrued it... even just a bit.... and probably the important bit.

To be honest I kind of read "BIIIIIG angle grinder, no guard...." and carried on form there.

Not that the carry on wasn't useful, in it's own right, and I am not sure what you mean by STONE wheels... as in are they re-enforced abrasive wheels... or diamond type steel wheels.

What all the peeps are saying is that it's basically dumb to use a grinder without guards.

And it's the people who use the angle GRINDERS wiht the THIN FLEXIBLE "CUTTING" wheels or disks, that's because the disks are made to be driven perpendicular through a job, on a rigid and heavially guarded cutting machine, and it's the ignorant or stupid people who then fit them to angle grinders...


Yeah - no worries:U. AND I know what you mean about the cutting disks:o. I post some pics of what I use as a safe alternative to a small angle grinder with abrasive cutting disks attached. My brother still works in the concrete repair crew so I'll take some photos of the equiptment we use safely in the grinder soon and post them too. I should also mention that all our grinders had variable speed adjustment and using the correct speed for different wheels is important - both for the safety and the quality of the job done.