Clamp for Incra Jig

[Big Shed]

I have just recently acquired an Incra LS System and have almost finished my new router table to accommodate it.

As I am about to actually start using this intimidating piece of kit, I am wondering what sort of clamp to use to hold the work to the right angle doodah.

What are the experienced Incra users using? On the DVD it shows a parallel wooden clamp, I haven't got one, so if that is the way to go, what size do I need that is the most useful.

Do people use other types of clamps?

I know there has been a lot discussion on clamps for the Gifkin jig, but haven't found anything on clamps for the Incra.

[bsrlee]

I think the general idea is to have a non-metallic clamp, so that if you get something wrong you don't end up destroying the router bit & have pieces whiz about the shop.

From time to time Bunnings have some plastic "C" clamps for about $4 - I have a few 'just in case' but I also have a pile of the wooden 2 screw cabinet makers clamps too - I got mine from Carbatec for between $6 and $12 IIRC.

[Thornburn]

Big Shed
I initially used a Bessey clamp with my LS and just found it too heavy and awkward. I have since been using a wooden parallel clamp and found it a much better solution.
Welcome to Incra! I've only had my LS system a short time and don't get a lot of time "in the shed" (my company keeps sending me away from home!!) but its a great bit of kit and I love the accuracy and simplicity of it. I'm madly saving for one of their mitre guages now.
Cheers
Thornburn

[Big Shed]

Thanks brslee and thornburn, cabinet screw clamps it is.

As I have never used these or purchased any, what sizes am I looking for?

Am planning a trip to Carbatec sometime this week now that I have my Triton router problem fixed and I can actually start using the router table and Incra jig.

[Thornburn]

Big Shed
My parallel clamp is a 10" wooden one from Carbatec.

Cheers
Thornburn

[Big Shed]

Big Shed
My parallel clamp is a 10" wooden one from Carbatec.

Cheers
Thornburn

Thanks for that, 10" it is.

[rat52]

Try making the clamp. You can purchase the thread cutters from MIK or Timbercon and its a great excercise in tool making.

[Big Shed]

Try making the clamp. You can purchase the thread cutters from MIK or Timbercon and its a great excercise in tool making.

Rat, I hve just spent a LOT of time building my router table for the Incra jig, think I'll just buy the clamp, it will both quicker and cheaper, and I'll actually get to use the Incra jig!:rolleyes:


You never know, may well do so in the future, certainly have some suitable timber laying around for this.

Have just made a dead blow mallet using some of this timber.

[Thornburn]

Big Shed
I would be interested in the design of the dead blow hammer you've just made. Is it a better choice of tool for woodwork?
Thanks
Thornburn

[Big Shed]

Thornburn, sent you a PM.

Originally got this design from Brown Dog, but I'm sure he won't mind me passing on a copy.:wink:

[cyface]

I have been using the "Maple Cam Clamps" from Woodcraft:

http://woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=328

With good success. I didn't like how heavy and over-balancing the screw clamps were...

Enjoy!

Tim

[martink]

I've tried the wood clamp shown in the videos and you know what - I'm far to clumsy to make it work. Now the timber I use has a front and back peice on it so I don't get any break out, the benefit, I can use a trusty old G-clamp from bunnies:) the 100 MM one is light holds firm, dope proof and was cheap as chips:D

[Sir Stinkalot]

Big Shed ..... how have you found the 10" cabinet screw clamp with the Incra?

I have been having all sorts of problems as the right angle sled is 150mm high ..... I want to be able to cut dovetails and box joints in timber that is only 30-40mm high which means that the clamp used needs at least 120mm depth. I cant seem to find anything that will do the job. The Carbatec site does not give the depth of the 10". I dont know why you cant purchase a lower right angle block for smller boxes.

Also I am finding with a screw clamp, such as an F clamp it tends to twist the timber out of square when tightening.

There have been a couple of options that I was thinking of using ..... the 18" locking pliers .... however I don't think these will give much room to stack a number of blanks ..... or the Cam Clamp (if I can find one locally) as it will not twist.

If the 10" Carbatec is the bees knees I will go that way!

[DJ’s Timber]

SS, I think Fred is away at the moment so he may not answer straight away, but I have the same clamp at home, will measure it tomorrow for you when I go home, probably be about lunch time.

Another alternative is the Lidwig (http://www.lidwig.com.au/tools/Lidwig+Clamps) clamps, have one of the smaller ones and it is a very versatile unit I reckon, not sure if they have one that has the reach you need though.

[Sir Stinkalot]

Thanks DJ ..... I have looked at the Lidwig following the review on Stu's Shed and they look good for the purpose but even the X7 is a maximum of 100mm depth.

I purchased a 4" cabinet maker clamp from Carbatec one time but it is no where need deep enough (only 75mm from the screw to the tip) ... no matter how many times I try.

I have just gone and had another look at my setup. It would appear that I mounted the right angle fixture the wrong way around which resulted on the little lip that should be on the bottom facing towards the rear at the top facing forward. I did notice this the other day and thought it odd as long peices wouldn't sit flush with the fence face but since I havent used it for anything this long before it hasn't been an issue.

I have also tried to turn the right angle fence around to utilise the other channels with the hope of being able to lower the fence but it doesnt work. Its a bit of a worry now that I have put the fence around the right way as it leaves a 37mm gap from the table to the bottom of the fence which only allows 18mm of the timber to be in contact with the fence.

[Sir Stinkalot]

Image.

[Big Shed]

Hi, sorry for delayed reply. As DJ said, we are away from home ATM, so can't rally measure this for you till I get home next week.

Will get back to you then.

[Waldo]

I'll second the Ludwig clamp. I bought the X4 :2tsup:

[Sir Stinkalot]

The Lidwig clamps do look good for longer stock however when using the smaller timber the 50-55mm throat depth of the X4 will require a stock length of approximately 100mm before it will clamp the top of the stock. If the clamp is angled slightly over the main fence side you may be able to get slightly deeper than the 50mm but still not enough to adequately clamp smaller stock.

Do Incra make a shorter right angle fixture? perhaps 75mm instead of the 150mm?

[Big Shed]

Had a brainwave (didn't even hurt!)

Wht about one of those Pivot Hold Down Clamps (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/category77_1.htm) from Incra?

They are about 2/3 down the page.

They would make use of the existing right angle attachment and don't need a clamp to go over the top.

[Waldo]

The Lidwig clamps do look good for longer stock however when using the smaller timber the 50-55mm throat depth of the X4 will require a stock length of approximately 100mm before it will clamp the top of the stock.

Why will it need a bigger throat on a clamp?

The router bit only pokes through for example on 19mm stock that's being routred which is 19mm thick and the Incra sled whatsit is abut the same again which leaves plenty of room for the X4. You can come in from the top of the sled or from the side. The clamping pressure is more than plenty to hold it without movement regardless of where it is clamped and will be well clear of any bit going around at a million miles an hour.

I'd take a picture to demonstrate what I mean but I'm here and the camera is in the house.

For shorter stock that you need to router you could always leave it longer than required and cut to size once you've routered it if you have to clamp from directly above.

[Sprog]

I have also tried to turn the right angle fence around to utilise the other channels with the hope of being able to lower the fence but it doesnt work. Its a bit of a worry now that I have put the fence around the right way as it leaves a 37mm gap from the table to the bottom of the fence which only allows 18mm of the timber to be in contact with the fence.

Make an L shaped backer board to fill the gap at the bottom of the right angle fence. You will still need some gap at the bottom as relief for the router bit and chips.
That will be a very narrow box at 55mm, with tails both sides there will not be much room left inside the box :)

[Sir Stinkalot]

Hi All ....

I have managed to do a drawing of what I am trying to get at. As you can see in the image the clamp would need at least 100mm throat depth if coming from directly above the right angle fixture. It may be possible to tilt the clamp over so it comes in from the side of the right angle fixture however it cant tilt to much as it will hit the main fence and even then it would still need quite a large throat depth. I have noticed even with medium sized stock if you clamp too high up on the board, especially if you are trying to cut a few at a time, the clamp has the tendency to angle the board slightly so that the bottom is wedged out slightly angled towards the router bit as the pressure isn't distributed near the middle of the board.

From memory it is possible to alter the attachment of the fence so that it is using the "B" attachment points (to mount the right angle fixture to the sled) which I think will put the bottom of the fence on or just above the table top, eliminating the gap (allowing for greater contact between the stock and the fence), however you would need to have a backing board and be very careful that you don't cut through it as the fence will be lower than the router bit.

If Incra made a 75mm right angle fence that can still attach to the fence then it would allow for clamping of smaller timber without a problem. The 150mm provided is great for larger boards but difficult with smaller.

The box in question is a pen box with box (finger) joints so it is quite small about 180mm x 50mm. I also have plans to make small ring boxes which will be about 50mm square. All with box (finger) joints if possible.

Routing with a longer piece and then cutting to size will not work as you still need pins on both ends (ok it will work for one end). A dovetail box may work as the small sections can be cut with the face of the board on the router table to cut the tail not the dove (from what I have seen in the video, I haven't tried dovetails before).

I have thought about Big Sheds idea before of mounting a toggle clamp to the face of the fence however I would need to see one in person to determine the suitability.

Hope the image clears it up a little.

[Sprog]

smaller.

The box in question is a pen box with box (finger) joints so it is quite small about 180mm x 50mm. I also have plans to make small ring boxes which will be about 50mm square. All with box (finger) joints if possible..

Thought it must be something like that :)

How about something like this, might need some sandpaper glueing on the face of the backer board to stop any movement of small parts and maybe two clamps.

[DJ’s Timber]

Sorry for the delay in getting the pics, didn't get home till late last night.

From the edge of the bolt to the tip, its just short of 130mm as you can see in the attached image.

104463

[Sir Stinkalot]

Thank you all for the replies ....

Sprog I like the idea of your system. It would be nice and easy to use as there is no need to try and hold the clamp in place whilst doing it up. It may become a task at the new wood show trying to find the appropriate parts when all the sellers are together and I can see a few options.

DJ .... thanks for the photo. It looks as if the 10" may be able to do what I need which is a relief. A 12" would be good as well but I cant find them in Australia. I will place an order with Carbatec.

There are a few other options at McJing such as a 300x150mm quick action deep throat F clamp or a hold dong clamp (basically half a g clamp) which may be suitable for something like Sprogs idea. They also have the 4" and 6" wooden handscrew clamps (I sent an email about a 10").

It is always the way with woodworking stores ..... you can never get everything you want in one go. If McJing had a 10" wooden handscrew then I would also get the deep throat F clamp and the hold dong clamp to try out since I had to pay for postage anyway. Unfortunately the only thing I need from Carbatec is the clamp so its a shame not to be able to add a few extra things together with the postage costs.

[Sprog]

There are a few other options at McJing such as a 300x150mm quick action deep throat F clamp or a hold dong clamp (basically half a g clamp) which may be suitable for something like Sprogs idea. They also have the 4" and 6" wooden handscrew clamps (I sent an email about a 10").

If McJing had a 10" wooden handscrew then I would also get the deep throat F clamp and the hold dong clamp to try out since I had to pay for postage anyway.

McJing have 4 6 8 10 12 inch wooden handscrew clamps

http://www.mcjing.com.au/categorybrowser.aspx?categoryid=58

[Sir Stinkalot]

McJing have 4 6 8 10 12 inch wooden handscrew clamps

http://www.mcjing.com.au/categorybrowser.aspx?categoryid=58

Thats funny ..... I did a search last night and came up with only the 4 and 6. I sent them an email last night on the off chance that they may have larger sizes as often stores do not list everything on line. I didn't get a response to the email but it looks like they have listed them online now.

Looks like my Friday night will be spent filling my McJing shopping basket with lots of goodies ...... :2tsup:

[Sir Stinkalot]

Well just an update ...... I ended up with a 10" clamp and it seems to work much better than the 6". I am still having a little trouble with the smaller stock but it is something I will have to play around with.

Since I had a new clamp I gave it a bit of a workout!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/Sir_Stinkalot2525/th_IMG_5256.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/Sir_Stinkalot2525/?action=view&current=IMG_5256.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/Sir_Stinkalot2525/th_IMG_5257.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/Sir_Stinkalot2525/?action=view&current=IMG_5257.jpg)

[Waldo]

A bit of an assembly line there.

[Gwhat]

Had a brainwave (didn't even hurt!)

Wht about one of those Pivot Hold Down Clamps (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/category77_1.htm) from Incra?

They are about 2/3 down the page.

They would make use of the existing right angle attachment and don't need a clamp to go over the top.

Hi

In this application the Pivot Hold Down seems logical, if you want to try, give us a call and we will send one FoC in return for some pics of it in use with the RAF.

Regards

Grahame

[Sir Stinkalot]

Grahame,

Just a few questions in relation to clamping smaller stock to the right angle fixture.

From the images on your web site it would appear that the Woodpecker Universal Track Clamp would work in a way similar to the sketch made by Sprog. Would this system fit into the slots on the Incra right angle fixture? Secondly when it is tightened does it tend to try and twist the stock? This is something I have found when trying to use a G-clamp or similar, something that can be overcome with a quick action clamp or the like that doesn't utilise a twist motion.

With the HD Pivot Hold Down Clamp (Incra) does this pivot against the back section and if so what is the maximum thickness of the stock that can be clamped?

Is there not a demand for clamping small timber to the Incra fence? I purchased the Incra with the intention of doing small work (box sides less than 50mm) however it seems to struggle (Don't get me wrong I am very happy with the quality of the unit overall).

As a suggestion to Incra it may be good to be able to attach the right angled fence to the sled via a vertical channel in the back rather than the horizontal, that way the right angle fence could be lowered to provide backing for smaller pieces closer to the router bit (The fence could actually be lowered to just clear the bit). I am sure that Incra could come up with a clamping system that attaches to the front on the right angle fixture (like we are trying to put together) which may be like a toggle clamp that once set for the timber thickness would be easy to unclamp and re-clamp.

I might have to look further into this on the weekend as I am still finding the 10" clamp unsuitable for small stock.

[Gwhat]

Hi all

The Woodpeckers Universal Track Clamp, would work well, as;


The mounting screw for the UTC is a 1/4" - 20 bolt so it will fit.
As it's independant of the clamping screw it would stay in position on the RAF.
It would clamp up to about 40mm thick timber.
I hope that this helps. Also I'll pass these posts on to Incra for comment.

Regards

Grahame

[Gwhat]

[QUOTE=Gwhat;964404]Hi all

I hope that this helps. Also I'll pass these posts on to Incra for comment.

/QUOTE]

Well here's the response as promised from Incra;

Hi, Grahame-

That’s a good question….the smallest parts I’ve ever joined were about 3”-long and still easily clamped in the RAF.

The Incra hold down will work directly in the RAF faceplate, but I wonder about its ability to keep the lumber from shifting. Even when they’re sharp, router bits are still mostly beating their way through the lumber.

The clamp’s range depends on which side you use, but typically 1” is the limit for the clamp alone. Adding a spacer block under the clamp on the side of the bolt opposite the lumber increase range by allowing the clamp body remain more level - by adding spacers, the clamping range is limited by the length of the clamp’s bolt.

On really short stock, the problem becomes the faceplate’s distance off the table. One possible solution is a larger wooden face attached to the aluminum faceplate that nearly reaches the table surface. This could have a length of T-Track embedded in it to accept the hold down clamp at the proper height. Beyond that, a custom fixture for small parts would be the best bet.

Best regards,


Mark Mueller
Field Operations Manager


I hope that this helps?

Regards


Grahame

[Sir Stinkalot]

Thanks Grahame .....

Good to have a response straight from the horses mouth. As Mark said it may be the case of a custom feature ..... just a bit of mucking around to get something that works. I will be sure to post any responses here (good or bad).

Stinky.

[Gwhat]

Hi
I just spoke to Perry McDaniels, the author of the Incra books and an avid Incra user see his and others work HERE (http://www.incra.com/product_photogallery.htm):2tsup:

Perry mentioned making 'micro boxes' to store postage stamps with dovetails made using a 1/8" bit.:o He suggested that the standard RAF's are far too big and a custom fixture is easily made, noting that it only needs to slide along the fence not be attached to it as the RAF is.

I will ask Perry for some pics of his fixture.

Regards

Grahame

[rightendup]

I agree with Sir Stinkalot, the use of a vice-grip type of one hand activated clamp leaves the other hand to line up the pieces. Note I use a spring clamp to hold the pieces then clamp the heck out of it with the vice-grips.
Also, check your new toy to be sure it really is square. Note the use of feeler guage blades to square up the sled.
You may not do this for a while but note that I ran my sled fence over some sandpaper laid on my table saw top. One, it flattened it a little and two, it made the face less slippery.