lace bobbins

[lubbing5cherubs]

Gidday, i have pmed a couple of guys to get this answer but i would like to know so i can go and try some tonight. so i am going to ask my question again.


what size are these and length and diameter?
.
also how many bobbins do they need to make a piece of lace? perhaps one of the lace makers may be able to help with that question.:D
thanks toni

[Terry B]

Toni
I can't help you with the size but the number is anything from about 6 to 100 depending on the size and complexity of the lace. I haven't ever done it but an old relative of mine use to.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I wouldn't normally post the contents of a PM, but... Toni would you mind if I post my reply to your PM here, just for future reference? (Also might spark some debate. :wink:)

[lubbing5cherubs]

no don't mind one bit go for it.
thanks toni

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Thanks Toni. :)

Here 'tis:
---8<---
Hmmm... Generally the actual "bobbin part" where the lace winds on is usually around 30-40mm long, and around 2-3mm thick, dependin on how strong the wood is. The ends of the bobbins are between 8-10mm thick. As for the sizes of the head and the handle, that's all subject to change from bobbin to bobbin.

Mind you, I have also turned smaller and larger bobbins, it depends on what style of tatting they're used for and whether I've been asked to make 'em to a specific size. The above sizes are about the standard, though.

As for how many bobbins are needed, again that depends on the work being done. Simple lace ribbons can be done with as few as 5 bobbins, while a really intricate piece can take a hundred or more.
---8<---

Basically, all the above can be summed up as: if it looks right it is right. :wink:

It'll be interesting to hear if others turn theirs to different sizes and why.

[Hambone]

Hi All,
Not trying to be smart but the type of lace to be made depends on the type of bobbin used.The type of bobbin most used in Australia is the Midland Bobbin that is the bobbin the ladies attach beads to(spangles).The vary in dimension usually about 100mm long about 6mm in diamter at the body.The neck is usually about 25mm long and 3mm diameter(that's were the thread is held) To make a book mark will take up to 10 pairs.To make a fancy piece could take up a 100 pairs or more.
Skew you have all of the bobbin lace makers spitting their dummies calling it tatting .Tatting uses one little shuttle made popular by Queen Victoria as it was something that she could take anywhere in he handbag to pass away the time.

Ron

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Skew you have all of the bobbin lace makers spitting their dummies calling it tatting .Tatting uses one little shuttle made popular by Queen Victoria as it was something that she could take anywhere in he handbag to pass away the time.

:D:D Just calling it what my Mum and her cronies call it. So I had a deprived (depraved?) upbringing. :wink:

I wasn't going to get into the different types (Bayeux, Flanders, Honiton, etc.) 'cos when I'm asked to make some if I ask "what type do you want?" as often as not all I get in return is a blank stare... :rolleyes: But yes, Midlands are the "de facto" bobbin here in Oz and are what I was describing.

As you said, the type dictates the style of lace it's best used for, but rather than make a "traditional" Flanders bobbin for Flanders lace, for example, I'll make a Midlands body and, in this case, change the head style to a thin Binche. The Thistle is most common, of course, but I've done more than a few using a Reversed Thistle or other style of head.

I've also made a few "double arrowhead" that AFAIK was invented by one of the ladies on these fora. (Might've been Jen? I forget. :- Apologies for pinching your idea, anyway, but someone saw a pic of yours on here and said "I want some!" :rolleyes:)

[Hambone]

Hi Skew,
You haven't pinched my idea .My wife is a lace maker that's why I know a bit about it. I have never put a picture of my bobbins on this foram and have only sent one to I think whom sent me some corian I am to old to be playing around with cameras.

Ron

[lubbing5cherubs]

ron 49 is not too old. you only a youngin yet.
Toni

[Hambone]

Hi Toni,
Mabe if you added another 25 onto your age prediction you would be getting close. My next overcoat will be a wooden one.

Ron

[lubbing5cherubs]

sorry ron, i read posts as 48 and mistaken that for age. oh well that for next time
Toni

[tashammer]

make sure you get buried with a carving kit and an unlined overcoat then you can pass the time nicely young Ron. :)

[RETIRED]

Hi Skew,
You haven't pinched my idea .My wife is a lace maker that's why I know a bit about it. I have never put a picture of my bobbins on this foram and have only sent one to I think whom sent me some corian I am to old to be playing around with cameras.

RonNot I.

[Jenny Brandis]

Hello one and all

I am a bobbin lace maker (I make Torchon lace) and the following is generalities about lace

To make lace you need pairs of bobbins, a minimum of 2 pairs will make a plait.

To make a piece of torchon insertion lace that is 1 inch wide, on a grid of 10 to the inch I would need 3 pairs for each footside (the flat sides that is sewn onto the fabric), and two pairs per pinhole between. so my theoretical 1 inch wide lace needs 14 pairs. (28 bobbins)

I am currently working on a garter for my sisters wedding, this piece uses 48 pairs of bobbins, takes approx 1.5 hrs to make 1 inch length and the total length will be 50 - 60 inches long (depending on how soon I have had enough :U)

All the lace makers I know of have *hundreds* of bobbins! Ranging from the 50c duds to the $20 each. The price depends solely on the lace makers willingness to pay. :)
next message talks about the size of bobbins.

[echnidna]

Hi Jenny
I'd love to see some pics or even better a video

[WillyInBris]

Please excuse my stupidity but what does a bobbin look like I did a bit of a search and ended up with all sorts of things and now am totally confused :gaah: .

Some Pics would be good or point me in the right direction so I can gain more knowledge.:2tsup:

[Jenny Brandis]

The first bobbins you will recognise are the East Midland Bobbins - they have beads attached (called spangles) see http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/lace/bobbins/midland.html for a selection.

Usually between 4 and 5 inches long,

These tend to be made up of a head which *must* be smooth so that the thread does not catch.

then there is the neck, which is 3mm wide, where the thread is wound on.

Followed by the boby, usually 6mm at its widest - the top of this is where the lace maker picks it up so do not make it hard on the fingers. The base is usually ended in a ball or drop shape which has a small hole drilled in it to allow the lace maker to add the spangles.

They are made with many different materials but the most common are wood and the most prized are bone.

Check out http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/lace/bobbins/specials.html for some other types.

[Jenny Brandis]

Some lace makers have developed arthritus and like using the square bobbins
One bobbin maker makes aluminum bobbins
Wire lace has taken off and a specialised wire lace bobbin is used (http://www.brandis.com.au/craft/lace/images/wirebobbin.gif)

As you can see, there is no *one* style for lace bobbins.

The most common in use in Australia appears to be the East Midlands Bobbins.

[Big Shed]

Some more info here:

http://www.angelfire.com/d20/mikesbobbins/birth.html

[Jenny Brandis]

Turning Lace Bobbins by David Springett ISDN 0 9517157
<dl><dt>Turning Lace Bobbins </dt><dd>by David Springett. John Hensel Prod. 1994. </dd><dd>2 hours, 24 minutes, V-025</dd></dl>Turning Boxes and Spindles Stp-by-step by David Regester ISDN 0 7134 7240 5

http://www.angelfire.com/d20/mikesbobbins/birth.html

http://bobbins.lacefairy.com/BobbinmakingFAQs.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/1404/taste.html

Hope it helps :)

[Ken Prider]

I have read with interest all of the lacemakers bobbins data.
I am at the moment developing a uniquely "Australian" bobbin. (no! it is not shaped like a boomerang) The requirements of the lacemakers are as follows:-
Quantity - rule of thumb,
If they are free--------They will take a thousand.
If they are $20-00-----They will make do with two.
If they are $5-00------They will take ten now & get some more later on.
If they are $2-00------They will get fifty, just to show off to the other girls.
Lace makers bobbins must be snag resistant.
Must be able to do a myriad of tasks without breaking.
Must be able to be reproduced at a minutes notice.
Must be covered by a lifetime warranty.

I must add here "Cynicism is a heightened state of awareness"

[Hambone]

Hi Ken,
I can only agree with you about being cynical. I have made on an average of one thousand lace bobbins a year for the last 15-18 years and have always had my lae bobbins appreciated. You must remember a lace bobbins is a tool used by the lace maker to make lace and unless it meets their requirements it is useless. Put it this way would you ask a lace maker to make some wood turning tools without them first checking out what is required. The only way to find out what is requiered is to go to a lace meeting and see what they have on their pillows and ask the question "what did you pay for that particular bobbin ?" That way you will be able to assess if you can make it for that price and in the same wood. No I am not having a go at you or trying to be smart. PM me if you want more information.

Ron

[Old-Biker-UK]

Here's (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/remark/pages/hobbies/sewing/lace.html) a pic of Honiton lace with a just a few bobbins.
Any lacemakers out there please forgive the loose ends, damage in storage!
Mark

[Ken Prider]

Thanks for the reply, I hear exactly what you say. My wife is a mad keen patchworker & sells fabrics & all the extras to go with it. She travels & only sells at craft shows, patchwork shows & the like. When I retired I pledged to support whatever she wanted to do with the rest of our lives because I am an ex hospital engineer & all of our married life my wife looked after the house,raised the kids, waited for me to get home not knowing how long I would be home before a extremely high pressure job called me back to work.That is how it was for 30 years. That has all changed because I cannot sit on my bum & do nothing --so I hand make all of her decorative patchwork wall hangers & using hoop pine I make things for patchworkers that cannot be bought in a shop. My workmanship is top quality & her prices are very reasonable, everything I make is sold & the waiting list is getting longer. Along the way I meet with a lot of ladies in the handcraft field & listen to what they want --then go away & make it.It is very rewarding to see what these ladies can make. The latest request is lacemaking & I will produce the best quality tools for them at prices that they can afford & enjoy doing it.I am using "Loquat' wood, (eriobotrya japonica) for the bobbins & turn them up at 3000 rpm & finish them with 320 grit sanding sponge. Every comment so far is "I cant believe that is wood, it feels like plastic it is so smooth. If you want some samples E-mail me at:- [email protected] & give me the size of the blanks you need & I'll shoot you over some to play with. No shortage as I have about 2 tons of the wood, one hell of a lot of bobbins.
Gotta chuck a bit of Aussie humour in here. What is the difference between a girl running for a tram & a singer sewing machine ?- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The sewing machine only has one bobbin.

I'll be away for the next 4 weeks in sth aust, but will contact you on my return.
Keep making sawdust. Regards Ken Prider.

[Hambone]

Hi ,
I have made Honiton bobbins but there is very little call for them in Western Australia. I only know of 2 people doing it and both of them are learners. I liked the look of your Honiton bobbins

Ron

[jefferson]

If you guys and gals can be patient for a few days, Ken W. (who gave me the lurgy and the last 10 days in bed) will almost certainly respond to this one. Probably Thursday.

Ken's lovely wife Helen and her friends are really into lace work. So Ken turns them out by the hundred. Apparently in return for food and sex, though Helen doesn't like Ken eating out too often.

(Mods, please don't delete. I've got him saying that on DVD, so it's already in the public domain).

Ken's bobbins in identical pairs are maybe 125mm long. The important part - where the lace goes - is 2.5-3mm thick / thin. Thinner the better apparently, as they get more lace on the bobbin. And the ladies can get more bobbins on the pillows.... :)

And I've seen a pillow with a few hundred bobbins on it, so I can understand why the ladies want them thin. And in identical pairs.

(If any turner out there thinks woodturners have a "hobby" problem, have a look at what the ladies do with lace. I just don't get it, too many strands and needles all over the place).

Turning lace bobbins apparently is good spindle practice for finials......

[KenW]

As Jeff said, my wife is a lace maker. No matter how many I make, there is never enough. To make matters worse my wife likes the bibbins to be half sap wood and half heart wood.
The bobbins I make are 6mm dia, before decorating and 110mm long. The cotton section is 26mm long x 3mm dia. And always made in pairs.
I have attached a couple of photos of my last batch of 100 pairs, 50 pairs for the wife and 50 pairs were sold. There is also a photo of a simple piece of lace on a pillow, only 48 pairs of bobbins on this one.

[Old-Biker-UK]

Here is a somewhat bigger bobbin (Torchon style) in spalted beech, more of a 'shop sign' for when I used to do craft fairs.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/remark/pages/hobbies/woodwork/bobbin_large.jpg

Mark

[oldiephred]

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May not have done a good job transferring the info but , anyway, this might be of some use

[issatree]

Hi to all,
Yes I also make a few, Bobbins. At this moment I am making 2 pair for a Competition .
The Royal Geelong Agriculture Show, ask the Wood Workers, Woodturners to show the District of the surrounding Area, what we can achieve using Wood.
$2 entry / $3 win.
Huge Stakes ?, really, the honor of winning .

The RGAPS, is on Thur.15th - Fri.16th. - Sat.17th. - Sun.18th. Oct. 2009.
Big day Sunday as they have the Big Tractor Pull, Quite Exciting & Noisy.

My Question is what kind if finish does one use.
One suggestion was, 1 coat EEE, Shellawax Cream, then 1 coat of Liquid Shellawax.
I was just thinking of using straight Beeswax, but will that make the Bobbin "Sticky" .

There are some Turners using 3 drops of Raw Linseed Oil, to 1 drop of Loctite 401, as they use this on their pens. I think I've got that right, any way someone will put it right.
Would really like to know the Answer.
Regards,
issatree.



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[bellyup]

I've always wondered what lace bobbins were about in reference to turning. Now Iv'e seen pictures it all makes sense - I had no idea that is how lace is made. Live and learn eh?

[Hambone]

Hi,
I have entered bobbins many times in the Western Australian Royal Show. Their requirements were two different pairs of bobbins of your own design and to mounted on blue cardboard so that they could be displayed. I always turn the bobbin sand it with 400 grit and finish it with Shellawax that way it is smooth and dry. Don't use oil or wax as it may blead into the thread. The judges usually asked the ladies judging the lace to give their oppinion on the finish and usefullness of the bobbin.

Ron