Turning Tools - Just my favourites only.

[Cliff Rogers]

What would I buy now if I suddenly lost all my turning tools & had to start again or if I had to lighten the load & could only keep a minimal set? :think:

I do mostly bowls & platters so if I was to start again, I would buy the following without handles. (for me, NOT for a beginner)

10mm x 10mm P&N Beading tool. (sharpened as a Bedan)
12mm x 8mm P&N Scraper. (sharpened at 90° through & approx 75° angle across to suit a chuck dovetail, see details below)
24mm x 8mm P&N Round Nose Scraper. (sharpened with a longer curve on the left)
12mm Hamlet Long Strong Detail Gouge. (sharpened like a long fingernail)
Qty 3 of 5/8" Henry Taylor HS1 Super Flute. (Elsworth sweptback style grind) (Has anybody tried the Kryo)

I use the Bedan for sizing spigots for chucks.
I use the Angled Scraper for making the dovetails for chucks & it is sharpened a 90° through & on both sides with a 75° angle across so I can flip it over to cut dovetails the other way on the other side & do inside & outside dovetails on the foot. Because most of the cutting has been done with the Bedan, this tool is just a sharp corner point to make a 15° angle in the already formed wall. (I tried to draw it & muffed it.)
I use the Round Nose for shear scraping inside curves to smooth out rough spots when I can't get it right with the Super Flute.
I do most of my work with the Super Flutes, hogging out, refining the shape & shear scraping the finish.
I only use the Detail Gouge for little bits around the lip & the foot & sometimes for a bit of shear scraping if it is sharper than one of the Super Flutes.

I would make everything else I use.
Thin parting tool from a power hacksaw blade.
Bent scrapers for hollowing.

I maybe would consider a Vermec hollowing tool but just the handle & the shaft with the cutter head & cutter, not the set with the shear scraper 'cos I never use it.

I would also consider buying a Diamond Parting tool but I'd want to shop around on the quality.
I have owned 2 now & I wasn't entirely happy with either.
The peaks of the diamond on the sides were at different heights so it was hard to grind them to a point with maximum clearance.

I think I'll pull these tools out of my collection & put the rest away & see if I can live with just these ones.

[chrisb691]

I was glad to see that you didn't have a scew on the list. Because (IMO) it's the most evil, and dastardly, tool ever invented by man. :D

[Cliff Rogers]

I use the Bedan instead of a skew. :wink:

[bitingmidge]

What would I buy now if I suddenly lost all my turning tools & had to start again

A TV perhaps? :D

Thanks for the list Cliff, your minimum set makes my collection look decidedly, well impoverished really!

Coming to Bris to the woodshow?

P
:D

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I have a "travelling kit" of tools that I like to use when demo'ing or working in someone else's shop. (I hate using other people's tools; my grinds are a bit different to "standard," just enough that I have to constantly think about tool presentation. ...and still end up looking like a ham-fisted newby. :-)

Oddly enough, they're also the tools I'd be most about if any went missing. I really should double up on 'em, just in case... These include:


12mm x 8mm P&N Scraper. (sharpened at 90° through & approx 75° angle across to suit a chuck dovetail, see details below)
24mm x 8mm P&N Round Nose Scraper. (sharpened with a longer curve on the left)
12mm Hamlet Long Strong Detail Gouge. (sharpened like a long fingernail)

OK, OK. Maybe mine aren't the same brands or exact sizes, but close enough. Same grinds, too. What you describe is what I'd go for if I had to buy replacements though. Good choices, Cliff! :D


Qty 3 of 5/8" Henry Taylor HS1 Super Flute. (Elsworth sweptback style grind)

One 5/8" but also a 3/8" version for my goblets.

The only other tools in my kit are a 6mm square stock Parting Tool, reground as a Bedan and a 1" Henry Taylor Roughing Gouge. It may be big'n'chunky (and yes, it's U-shaped Scooter! :p) but it can make fine finishing cuts or rough down the lumpiest log I have with equal facility. In the past I've turned acceptable pens with just the Roughing Gouge, just to prove it can be done. :)

[Hardenfast]

Excuse my extreme ignorance gents (and others), but can I ask what a "Bedan" is and where it comes from?
I did a quick search here but am none the wiser. While you're at it, maybe also enlighten an unlightened one as to "super flute", or should this be in the musical instruments section?

[chrisb691]

I use the Bedan instead of a skew. :wink:

Everyone please note what a gentleman Cliff is......... he didn't say anything about my spelleng error (scew). :2tsup:

[fred.n]

Excuse my extreme ignorance gents (and others), but can I ask what a "Bedan" is and where it comes from?
I did a quick search here but am none the wiser. While you're at it, maybe also enlighten an unlightened one as to "super flute", or should this be in the musical instruments section?


That is normally associated with a Brekky
ie: "Bedan Brekky" :D

[Tornatus]

Excuse my extreme ignorance gents (and others), but can I ask what a "Bedan" is and where it comes from?
I did a quick search here but am none the wiser. While you're at it, maybe also enlighten an unlightened one as to "super flute", or should this be in the musical instruments section?

A Bedan is a funny French scraper/bead turning/whatever tool that is in fact extremely useful, especially (as Cliff has noted) for rapidly and accurately turning spigots. I liked my 10mm Hamlet one (see piccie) so much, that I bought a bar of HSS from McJings and ground a bigger 16mm version, to give a wider cut. Bedans are usually held with the 45 degree bevel facing down, although I have seen the French master turner Jean-Francois Escoulen using them "upside down" - when I asked him why, he gave a very Gallic shrug and said that he learned to turn when his father handed him a Bedan and walked off and left him to it without any explanation. So he taught himself to use it with the bevel up!

"Super-flute" is a term first used by P&N (I think - someone will correct me, I'm sure) to describe a particular deep flute shape for their premium bowl gouge. I don't know the technical details, but I have one and it cuts very well.

PS I should acknowledge that I borrowed the piccie from the Hamlet website - I figured they wouldn't mind, as I was sort of advertising their tool ...

[scooter]

While you're at it, maybe also enlighten an unlightened one as to "super flute"?

A gouge made by Henry Taylor tools in England, see here (http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute.htm)for backstory.

[Cliff Rogers]

.."Super-flute" is a term first used by P&N (I think - someone will correct me, I'm sure) ....
Yeap... Scooter beat me. :D
P&N call their version a Supa Gouge.

The grind I use looks like E in Scooter's link but I have the tip angle a bit steeper, more like 60° I think (I'll measure it) & I don't sweep the wings that far back.

[rsser]

Superflute was coined and developed by Peter Child I think. His website has a useful run down on it and other deep gouges.

Cliff, you forgot the plastic tube to blow out shavings ;-}

[MajorPanic]

Cliff, Cliff, Cliff..................

Now, you know as well as I do, the tools you listed are just your wish-list............ without PICTURES!!!!

The master turner who tried to teach me only used 4 turning tools for all his production work.

roughing
parting
small spindle (⅜")
1⅛" SKEWThe skew, he used for 90% or more of all work, even parting - up to about 1"Ø. To say it was a bit mesmerizing to watch would be a bit if an understatement.

As I said he tried to teach me but........ it was a bit like trying to train a passion fruit vine over an out house, really :B :C :C

[Cliff Rogers]

Cliff, Cliff, Cliff..................

Now, you know as well as I do, the tools you listed are just your wish-list............ without PICTURES!!!!....
I posted pictures of them here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=34668)a while back.

[Darrell Feltmate]

Lately I have been turning (when I have had the chance:cool:) hollow forms and green bowl forms. For this my favorite tools are 1/2", 3/8", 5/16", 1/4" and 3/16" Oland tools. They are all home made. When I want a bedan or a parting tool I just slip the appropriate tip in the tool shaft and I am away. I could make do with only a couple but for less than $5.00 Canadian a tool, there is no need. For hollowing I have straight and 45° tools with arm brace handles, also home made. When I am spindle turning I like the Olands and a couple of skews.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day Darrell,

Do you have any pictures or a link to somewhere we can have a look at them?

[Darrell Feltmate]

G'day Darrell,

Do you have any pictures or a link to somewhere we can have a look at them?

Sort of Cliff. When I think about it I do not have them all in one place on the site. I will when I finally get the "beginner's corner" section well started (time, time, I need time), but most can be viewed in the sections on sharpening and on making tools.
http://aroundthewoods.com/tools.shtml

http://aroundthewoods.com/sharpening01.html

http://aroundthewoods.com/sharpening05.html

[OGYT]

:iagree: with all Darrell said, too. I started turning just about 3 years ago... wow, has it been that long??... and I stumbled onto Darrell's Website quite by accident. It was his Web-tutoring that got me started making my own turning tools. I turned with Oland-type tools for over a year, before I finally got a bowl gouge. And I still use my Olands for many cuts that I can't make with the bowl gouge.
:clap: :fireworks: :way2go: Thanks for all your help, Darrell!!!

[Darrell Feltmate]

Thanks OGYT. How does one blush on a forum?

[Big Shed]

Feltmate;495292]Thanks OGYT. How does one blush on a forum?

Like this:B[

[scooter]

Have crawled all over your website before, Darrell, 'tis a lot of good info there.

Re your Oland tools, how would you objectively characterise them compared to a spindle gouge and a bowl gouge?

Eg. Ease of coarse/fine cutting, speed of stock removal, surface finish left, ease of sharpening, durability of sharp edge, can/would you rough out with them, etc etc.


I turned with Oland-type tools for over a year, before I finally got a bowl gouge. And I still use my Olands for many cuts that I can't make with the bowl gouge.Interested in your point of view too, Al. What do you like/dislike about them? What cuts are you referring to in the quote above?

Is the tool made using a tip long enough for the tip to sit on the toolrest, or is the body of the tool on the rest? Does this cause any instability?

So many questions... :D Am quite interested in these tools, curious as to how they compare to more traditional tools.


Cheers...................Sean

[joe greiner]

Tip long enough to sit on the toolrest would be too fragile, considering deep projection for such as hollowing. Some folk grind a flat on the bottom of the intermediate shaft, but I haven't yet found it necessary, even for the offset cutter. Very long handle and an auxiliary grip on the intermediate shaft helps.

Tiny amount of cutting helps to reduce catches, and a slicing cut makes for a reasonably good tool finish with not too much sanding needed.

Joe

[Darrell Feltmate]

Thanks Big Shed. I think.
Oland tools almost need a thread of their own but here goes a quick try.
These are really inserted tip tools that have been around for a long time but in the 1970's a turner named Knud Oland designed and used one with a HSS insert and used it to turn a lot of gorgeous work. Indcidentally, he set them up for market but hoped that people would make their own as the design was so simple. He was a friend of and major influence on David Ellsworth. Oland turned large work with nothing larger than a 1/4" tool and his widow Lissie still turns bowls over 30" with a 1/4" tool.
Generally I use an Oland with the tip ground back 45° and sharpened to a slight radius. This is the typical grind that Oland used. I also have a grind with the tip at 45° and the sides brought back leaving more of a point.
For spindle turning I tend to use a roughing gouge or a skew for roughing depending on the size of the spindle. For roughing face plate stuff an Oland is the tool. I like the 1/2" on bowls and such and also for things like large mushrooms for the garden. My largest so far is 29" high and about 14" diameter. Shavings fly.
I find I get as good a surface with either tool. Some would say equally as bad but I generally get to start sanding at 120 or 180 in decent wood. Some woods make this unlikely. Love that spalted stuff.
I should mention that I own good bowl gouges in 1/4", 3/8" and 5/8" sizes as well as a 1/2" super flute. I use Oland's. They are great for roughing or a fine surface cut. Special grinds are simple and just mean popping in a new insert, putting on the grind, and when done, replacing the original insert to be good to go. The 5/8" shaft on a 1/4" tool means no problem in those weird situations where you want to reach over the rest 5" or 6". The edge is as good as any other M2 HSS steel tool I have tried. Either free hand or jig they sharpen as easily as any other tool I have tried. A friend of mine uses them on spindles and loves them there but live with a set of skews on spindles so I really have little opinion.
Hope this helps, folks.

[scooter]

Thanks for the info, Joe & Darrell :2tsup:



Oland tools almost need a thread of their own but here goes a quick try.



I agree, have started one, and cut & pasted some of the above across.


Cheers....................Sean

[Cliff Rogers]

..I agree, have started one, and cut & pasted some of the above across....
Can ya stick a link in here for people to follow pls? :2tsup:

[scooter]

Yeah, that'd be a help Cliff :-:rolleyes::)

Oland tool thread.
(http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=496105#post496105)

Cheers................Sean

[paul collins]

well cliff just about has it all covered the tools we woud grab in case of fire.how about the ones well thought ,well i just gotta have that one,just in case.you know thje spiral,barleytwist,,the one wse all thought hey i gonna shake the turning world with this.now it sits in the corner ,you dare not look at it for fear of shame.:( but then we pick up a magazine see newest,bestest,tool,salivate,spend hard earned cash on useless tool to be hidden away.:( ah to be a turner with ambition.:D

[Cliff Rogers]

...how about the ones ......now it sits in the corner ,....:D
The round head shear scraper that came as part of the Vermec hollowing set does that for me. :rolleyes:
I also have a very big skew that never gets used.... waste of money. :-

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've a couple of Sorby tools like that. A couple of Spindlemasters and Shear Scrapers with interchangeable cutting heads.

At least they cured me of buying gizmos. :-

It's not that they don't work... they work well, but I've found that other, more basic tools work just as well when used correctly and are more versatile to boot! I'd rather one tool that does 90% of a job than 10 tools which, combined, do 95%. :rolleyes: