Mc 900 woes

[bosco555]

Hi all,

I have searched the forums about trouble with the mc 900 lathe. I must say that I am pretty happy with mine, I have been turning since feb.07 with it. I had some trouble with the pulleys on the motor which were bent and causing excessive vibrations. I had them replaced, but saw that the pulleys on the actual headstock were bent as well. As I had to do some work, I just carried on with the bent pulleys. I spoke to a mate who is an electrical engineer and he told me of his troubles with these lathes. What he suggests is to change the motor to a 3-phase 1HP, with an on-off switch and with a switch to control speed and forward/reverse movement, done through a frequency inverter. The idea will work, provided a couple of mods are made. Motor to headstock fastening, 2 static pulleys, and a method of keeping the belt taught. I had to brace the legs (pressed steel) because of more vibration probs. Any thoughts?

thanks to all

gb

[Gra]

Sounds like you got a dud lathe, I have the big brother (MC1100) had no problems (No matter how ham fisted I am). I would be checking with who you purchased it from, maybe they can help fix it..

[ss_11000]

if your gonna spend that much money on mods...why not take it back and upgrade to a better lathe?

sounds interesting tho

cheers

[hughie]

Bosco,
Do a search of the forum as there has been several posts regarding upgrades of mc900 and mc1100 lathes. This one will get you started


http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=23684 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=23684) post#8

[bosco555]

Hi All again and thanks for the replies. Contrary to popular belief, the 3-phase motor is only $80, believe it or not!!, More than the cost I think is the stuffing around with brackets, etc. that's why I am a bit loathe to embark in such an undertaking. If I had the bucks obviously I would go for a vicmarc or the like, it's not just the lathe, I discovered...hehehe...tools (one never has enough tools), dust extraction unit, mask, band-saw...geepers, overtime here I come!!! I have to say, I am quite happy with this one though, just a couple of niggly things, and wanted to hear from the more experienced turners their opinions and I thank you all for that, will check the link out, ponder over the pros and cons, and if I decide to go ahead I will definitely let you guys know wassappenin' and post some pics of the whole project, it maybe helpful to the new guys starting up in the turning world!!!

Thanks again to all and all of the best

gb

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I looked at converting mine to a Variable Electronic Control a few years ago. There was a bloke doing the rounds of the clubs and offering a bloody good deal! Unfortunately, the budget didn't want to co-operate at the time.

The cost isn't in the motor, regardless of what some might say. It's in the controller. The advantage of the pulley system is that if you lower the RPM by half, in effect you're doubling the actual torque delivered to the workpiece. (The motor's still delivering the same HP after all.)

With a cheap VEC it's often the other way around... it's no good reducing the speed to, say, 300 RPM for roughing a big burl, if you've also lost a proportional amount of torque too! A good controller will give consistent drive power regardless of RPM, but is bloody expensive. [sigh]

It's on my wish-list for one day, though. Right after I order my 12" jointer & 4' drum-sander. :rolleyes: (So, we can all dream, can't we? :D)

Having said all that, you may be interested in checking out the mods to my old MC-900 in this post: 491457

If I was to make any changes to this, the idler shaft and the motor would swap positions with the idler being adjustable vertically for tensioning the belt to the headstock. (I'd allow for a BIG range of adjustment, to cater for a range of belt lengths so I could buy the cheapest going at the time :wink:) The motor I'd hang off hinges from the back, where the idler is now (or the orig motor used to be), so it was "self-tensioning" under it's own weight.

The current arrangement allows for the head to swivel to outboard mode but limits adjustments... t'other way would be better. But it works now and sees a LOT of work, so why change something that isn't broken? :p Maybe the next time something falls off I'll break out the welder and angle-grinder... or maybe not. I'm inherently lazy and would much rather get back to turning than fiddle with a working tool to get it "right..." :-

[ss_11000]

Contrary to popular belief, the 3-phase motor is only $80, believe it or not!!gb
that suprised me...i rekon go for it if you see the need:2tsup:

[hughie]

The cost isn't in the motor, regardless of what some might say. It's in the controller. The advantage of the pulley system is that if you lower the RPM by half, in effect you're doubling the actual torque delivered to the workpiece. (The motor's still delivering the same HP after all.)

With a cheap VEC it's often the other way around... it's no good reducing the speed to, say, 300 RPM for roughing a big burl, if you've also lost a proportional amount of torque too! A good controller will give consistent drive power regardless of RPM, but is bloody expensive. [sigh]


As Skew says.

I have just priced a Teco VSD or VEC or VFD they all mean the same as far as I can tell :)
It has a capacity up to 2kw motors [2.68hp] $450AUD, remember you need a motor with star/delta windings. Don't ask too much more of me on that score :? .... :U look for the sparkies in the group.

In my case I installed a 4 step pulley arrangement to get around the loss of power at low revs. I use my lower revs for sanding, finishing and roughing out of balance blanks etc.You can use the rpm to control the harmonics of the blank to lower or lose the death wobbles :o :C :U

Is it worth? Most definitely I would not go back. Variable speed done electronically is the way to go.[mechanically if fine too, but second best IMHO ] If you can afford the full power type, yay! go for it.

I am currently designing/building another lathe and it will have a VSD and a 4step pulley arrangement, no question of doing it any other way.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Hughie, does the Teco have adjustable start-up and wind-down ramping?

That's the part of going electronic that really tempted me... no more spinning off face-plates/chucks! :)

[bosco555]

HI guys,

well, let me tell you, my mate as quite a bit to do with Teco anyway, so, let me give you some part numbers, howzat hey??

by the way, if anyone is interested contacting via email, you can do it [email protected].

High performance Adjustable Speed Microprocessor controlled Inverter motor speed regulator:

Teco model FM50-201-OC TW series good from 1 to 3HP, that's about $200.00 i believe,
sorry, I have thrown away the box for the motor, but it's a standard 1HP and it costs $80, and don't let anyone rip you off!!! Indeed, doing it the electronic way, is much more efficient, not to mention quiet, no rattlings!

Please do not hesitate to contact me if ANYONE needs more info on parts and components. I do not have the switches with me, but will shortly. Please note that I am not gaining anything out of this, nor I am affiliated with any electrical contractor, just trying to lend a helping hand.

best to all as usual

gb

[hughie]

well, let me tell you, my mate as quite a bit to do with Teco anyway, so, let me give you some part numbers, howzat hey??

by the way, if anyone is interested contacting via email, you can do it [email protected].

High performance Adjustable Speed Microprocessor controlled Inverter motor speed regulator:

Teco model FM50-201-OC TW series good from 1 to 3HP, that's about $200.00 i believe,
sorry, I have thrown away the box for the motor, but it's a standard 1HP and it costs $80, and don't let anyone rip you off!!! Indeed, doing it the electronic way, is much more efficient, not to mention quiet, no rattlings!

Please do not hesitate to contact me if ANYONE needs more info on parts and components. I do not have the switches with me, but will shortly. Please note that I am not gaining anything out of this, nor I am affiliated with any electrical contractor, just trying to lend a helping hand.


well stuff me! I got my quote directly from Teco yesterday here in Sydney. At your prices I wll defintely be contacting you in the near future

[TTIT]

Teco model FM50-201-OC TW series good from 1 to 3HP, that's about $200.00 i believe,
sorry, I have thrown away the box for the motor, but it's a standard 1HP and it costs $80, and don't let anyone rip you off!!! Indeed, doing it the electronic way, is much more efficient, not to mention quiet, no rattlings!

Wish I'd known you when I still had the MC900 !!!!! I'd be lucky if I could get a lousy single-phase, 1 speed, 1HP for $280 here! :C

[tashammer]

$80? + freight. Hmm.

[bosco555]

HI all, no problem at all, I can put you directly in contact with my friend. I don't know about freight, the motor is about 20kgs, we'll have to check with AusPost. I am not sure if we are allowed to put names and numbers here, as I said I am not gaining a cent from this, just do it 'cos I know that struggling ain't a good thing. Let me know,

as always, best to all and lest we forget!!
gb

[scooter]

Bosco, do I read you right, a 3phase motor & one of these Teco speed controllers to run the motor from 240v mains (& give variable speed & reverse) would be $280?

Seems like a v good deal.


Cheers.................Sean

[soundman]

I wouldn't be spendy any more on an MC series lathe.
Its done its job and got you started.
Sell it and buy a better one
You can get into a full sized jet for under $1500

you can get into the new bigger jet minilathe for under $500

or keep an eye out on the second hand market.

check out the market.

cheers

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I dunno 'bout that Soundman. My MC-900 has been pretty heavily modified and I'm pretty happy with it as it is. Adding VEC would be the icing on the cake.

I've yet to see a second hand lathe that didn't need tweaking for one reason or another, and very few new mid-range lathes for that matter. Why spend the $$$ just to have to start tweaking all over again?

If the mod was in the $500 range then I reckon it'd be better to put it towards a nice big Vicmarc or similar, but $280? That's a mere drop in the ocean... I can spend more than that on just a couple of chisels or a new chuck! I reckon go for the mod! :wink:

[bosco555]

Geepers, I stirred the pot didn't I?? Look guys, I just started turning, and I have to acquire basically all the equipment, tools, etc., so I don't have a big budget, I buy as I need. I know that the Vicmarc lathes make us drool...but I seriously don't have 2 or 3 grand to spend, keeping in mind that woodworking is not a source of income for me, I would like it to be as I enjoy it so much. So I have to agree..rather the devil you know...(as long as we can beat it a bit)..hehehe...

Now, as I am also new here in the ol' west (WA), does anyone here in Perth know where we can get our grubby paws on some pulleys and steel plates to construct the frame for the motor? I looked at the links provided and I must say that the mods don't really look that difficult. Hey, once I have all the stuff, I think I will put together a small how-to, with pictures and step-by-step instructions and electrical diagrams, courtesy of my good friend who supplied the electrical gear HOWZAT!!!

thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to respond, I certainly appreciate it, and like I said, as soon as I have all the parts, I will definitely keep in touch.

best to all
gb

[reeves]

I have had mine for nearly 3 years and apart from one pully wheel rebuild (chiped the aluminimum wheel changing belts) its been great, bearings are getting a but worn but in all its been a great little lathe. I also change the capacitor to a higher grade one which gives it a bit more oomph.

They do respond very well to be cleaned and lubed regularly, like very regularly, if not dust and woodcrap builds up quick and bungs things up, 'might' have what caused your wheels to warp.

Apart from some structural changes or the addition of an indexer etc i dunno if a higher grade motor would make much difference, maybe if you turning larger bits of wood. I changed the speed ratio a bit by putting the notched lever bizzo in at a different place, means it starts faster and has less speeds in its range (goes from slower to faster more quickly) but as it just goes up when the pully widens this just makes its speed up quicker.

[mobrien]

HI guys,

well, let me tell you, my mate as quite a bit to do with Teco anyway, so, let me give you some part numbers, howzat hey??

by the way, if anyone is interested contacting via email, you can do it [email protected].

High performance Adjustable Speed Microprocessor controlled Inverter motor speed regulator:

Teco model FM50-201-OC TW series good from 1 to 3HP, that's about $200.00 i believe,
sorry, I have thrown away the box for the motor, but it's a standard 1HP and it costs $80, and don't let anyone rip you off!!! Indeed, doing it the electronic way, is much more efficient, not to mention quiet, no rattlings!

Please do not hesitate to contact me if ANYONE needs more info on parts and components. I do not have the switches with me, but will shortly. Please note that I am not gaining anything out of this, nor I am affiliated with any electrical contractor, just trying to lend a helping hand.



Wow - that sounds like a really good deal. I tried to find some specs on this controller, but can't find anything anywhere on the net - does anyone have anything? I'd love to see what it looks like and hear reports of it in use.

I've just got an old woodfast lathe, and this is the sort of upgrade that would be nice to do to it - variable speed that runs of 1 phase with no loss of torque is very appealing! Its actually the reason one of the reasons I went looking for an old solid lathe.

M

[mobrien]

Ok - a bit more searching and I found the brocure for the Teco speed controller:

http://www.teco.com.au/files/FM50%20Fluxmaster%20Brochure.pdf

So the FM50-201-OC is good for 1HP and is also IP20 rated with a filter. Looks like the bees knees.

There are also some photos of it put on a lathe here (with a nice speed contol knob mod): http://www.sydneywoodturners.com.au/site/articles/machinery/vsd/vsd.html

Looks like a worthwhile project to me. In the case of my woodfast lathe, the motor is mounted underneath on a shelf with hinge - I would think a new 1hp 3 phase motor would be an easy swap over....

I will contact the Brisbane Teco branch next week - if they give me rediculous prices I'll be speaking with our WA friend bosco555!

M

[bosco555]

hi all,

no trouble at all

gb

[mobrien]

OK - rang Teco brisbane - prices I got:FM50-201-OCVariable speed controller - $249 +GST3 phase 1HP motor $106 + GSTBosco - have you checked the prices you had - are they exact or approximate?Thanks!Matt

[wazzaboyz]

I have to agree with soundman,it has been well documented over this forum about the shortcomings of the MC900,putting a evs on something of this quality,similar to sticking a supercharger on your lawnmower.