Mitre 1000SE. My table slots don't fit.

[RichardL]

Hi Folks
I ordered a Mitre 1000SE from International Tools in the US. They were good to deal with and I got it for about 1/2 the price available locally. It arrived safe and sound and I unpacked it, read the instructions (believe it or not) and went out to the shed full of anticipation...:oo: Doesn't fit the flamin slots in my table.

After measuring, sweating:o , disbelieving:no: , stamping:~ and mentally forcing it into the slot, it still didn't fit:no: . The table has been machined inaccurately:C .

I'm now getting a new bar machined up which I'll tap and hopefully that will work. If not, I'll either have to machine my table top or sell the Incra.

Rather disappointing. Has anyone else struck this and what did you do about it?

[felixe]

What brand/make is the table saw. My 1000se fitted straight into my Delta table saw. :2tsup:

I have to ask, have you loosened and adjusted the plastic spacers on the "running bar" of the mitre gauge?
They are adjustable for a tight fit and if my memory serves me right they are also interchangeable between colours to get a tight fit?

Hmmmm, I find your situation very interesting and perplexing:?

Felixe.

[RichardL]

What brand/make is the table saw. My 1000se fitted straight into my Delta table saw. :2tsup:

I have to ask, have you loosened and adjusted the plastic spacers on the "running bar" of the mitre gauge?
They are adjustable for a tight fit and if my memory serves me right they are also interchangeable between colours to get a tight fit?

Hmmmm, I find your situation very interesting and perplexing:?

Felixe.

Hi Felixe

The slots are too shallow (by about 2mm) as well as slightly too narrow, so even if the gauge fitted widthwise, it would still sit proud of the surface of the table. The metal part of the Incra bar won't fit widthwise I'm afraid. But thanks for asking.

Incidentally, it is a properly machined cast-iron top and I don't consider it a cheap table. I'm assuming it is a one-off problem with their QC!

According to Incra, who I contacted, this isn't an isolated problem and non-standard (inaccurately machined) slots do crop up. Just wondered if anyone else on the forum had encountered it and whether they managed to sucessfully remedy it (if they got the mitre gauge to work well in the end).

I have a friend with a large mill. A last resort is to re-mill the table top. That would be a real pain though and re-making the guide bar seems the easiest solution at this stage.

[felixe]

Bugger :(

[Gwhat]

We regularly strike this problem, we seem to be cursed with a whole batch of weird sizes here in Oz & NZ.

The 1000se is a great Mitre Gauge but doesn't like slots less than 19mm. Wider slots 20mm ++ wide can be shimmed with thin strips of steel double sided taped to the inside of the groove. Yes this works fine!!!

The V27 mitre gauge bar can be milled / ground down easier than the 1000se as it's only got bearings on one side of the bar.

Then there are those of us who are cursed with standard ( or should I say non-standard) mitre slots based around 1/4" T Track dimensions, usually on European machines. We unfortunately have to suffer the *&(*((*))y supplied mitre gauge.

I hope that this helps?

Regards

THe Woodworker

[Honorary Bloke]

Incidentally, it is a properly machined cast-iron top and I don't consider it a cheap table. I'm assuming it is a one-off problem with their QC!

I'm sure this occurs, but no one has asked yet whether the originally supplied mitre fits the slot. :? If it does, your table is not milled inaccurately, just a weird size.

[RichardL]

I'm sure this occurs, but no one has asked yet whether the originally supplied mitre fits the slot. :? If it does, your table is not milled inaccurately, just a weird size.


Yes, I should have mentioned that. The table has 3 slots, the LH one is a perfect fit with the supplied mitre gauge and the gauge is a heavy cast iron with an odd-sized machined bar. It is OK once it is set but doesn't have an accurate protractor scale thingy -hence the Incra.

In the other 2 slots, it is fairly wobbly. These are machined to 19 mm wide and are almost deep enough for the Incra, but not quite.

So, the 3 slots aren't the same. I understand from the manufacturers that the slots are supposed to be the standard 3/4 by 3/8, so I was reasonably confident the Incra would fit - well it didn't cross my mind that it wouldn't actually.

In the end, it is what to do about it. I'll get my new bar sorted this week I hope and let you know how it goes.

I wondered about drilling and tapping 4 or 5 holes in the side of the bar for grub screws so I can adjust the fit to all 3 of the slots. Anyone tried this?

Shame Incra haven't got a few odd-sized bars that the likes of me could buy.:no:

[Gwhat]

Yes, I should have mentioned that. The table has 3 slots, the LH one is a perfect fit with the supplied mitre gauge and the gauge is a heavy cast iron with an odd-sized machined bar.

I wondered about drilling and tapping 4 or 5 holes in the side of the bar for grub screws so I can adjust the fit to all 3 of the slots. Anyone tried this?

Shame Incra haven't got a few odd-sized bars that the likes of me could buy.:no:

I'd reckon that you'd drive yourself bonkers, adjusting the bar everytime you changed from slot to slot. It would be better to shim the grooves until you have a uniform width in all 3 slots.

BTW what brand saw are we talking about?

This sounds like a really good point to start a 'check list' for table saw purchasers.

Regards

The Woodworker

[Big Shed]

BTW what brand saw are we talking about?

This sounds like a really good point to start a 'check list' for table saw purchasers.



I'd be interested too in the brand of table saw as I am investigating which one to buy at present.

Seems to me that would be a good brand to avoid!

Gwhat, just for reference, what size mitre track is the Incra mitre gauge optimised for?

[RichardL]

Hi

the table is a Dyco woodworker - a local brand but available in Oz too http://www.dycointernational.com/prod02.htm. I didn't really want to post the brand as generally it has been a pretty good tool and I'm not out to rubbish it, it is solid has a good jointer attached to the side and a router table - a small 5 in 1 type of machine.

Must admit though these niggles are a pain and I wish I had checked it out before I bought it. A check list is a darn good idea!! I bought the thing in a bit of a hurry when it was on 'special' (and, niggles aside, I still think it was a lot of tool for the money).

I have had the table a couple of years and apart from this and 1 bust belt drive, it has been pretty good once all the alignments were sorted out.

Machining the top isn't a very big job but taking the table apart isn't trivial as everything is suspended from the top. I'd rather avoid it if I can as it cuts well and is all aligned at the moment.

As I understand it, the Incra is for a 3/4 by 3/8 track. ...just went and measured it with a micrometer. Mine is 9.50 mm thick and 18.8 mm wide at one end and 19 mm at the other!!! No comment! The thinner end actually fits (tightly) the slot but is still too thick as the slot is only about 8mm deep.

It would be nice to know if this has been fixed on more recent Woodworkers (assuming they are still made).

[Big Shed]

Thanks Richard, looks like an interesting machine, but it is not on my list of "possibles".

Already have all the attachments as separate machines, so there would be no point.

I had never heard of this one, so you learn something every day.

I would still be inclined to get the mitre slot machined to "standard" size, as you don't know what accessories you might want to buy down the track that need a standard mitre slot. Just a thought.

[Gwhat]

The Incra Mitre Sliders / Bars etc are all designed around the imperial 3/4" x 3/8" slot, they have expanding rings that can take up to 1.5mm extra width.

In an ideal world all mitre slots would be 3/4" x 3/8" with an undercut (inverted T) so that the tongue feature can be used to allow the Incra Mitre Gauge to cantilever out from the slot.

Regards

The Woodworker

[RichardL]

After a number of months, I have finally got a new home-made bar for my Incra Mitre 1000 SE. I also filed out the slots in my table so they are more equal in width and depth (which took a while but less time than to take the table to bits and mill it).

Anyway, it all seems to work well and although the home-made bar doesn't have the fancy Incra expandable discs to make it glide, it fits the slots perfectly. After the usual adjustment of the gauge, it is enabling nice accurate cuts, well, at 90 and 45 degrees so far.

One thing I puzzled about is measurement with the plastic strips provided. Does anyone bother to use the inbuilt measuring capability? It seems very fussy and a ruler would be more accurate. The flip shop stop thing may be good to stop the work from slipping, but does anyone use the 1/32 adjustment? Anyway, I may be thick but I can't figure it out.

I'm using the gauge on the RH side of the blade as the blade is rather too close to the LHS of my small table so the fence would only be supported for 1/2 its length. Is it common to use it on the RH side? It doesn't mention it in the instructions.

I'd be grateful for any other tips for using this gauge.

Thanks

[Gwhat]

One thing I puzzled about is measurement with the plastic strips provided. Does anyone bother to use the inbuilt measuring capability? It seems very fussy and a ruler would be more accurate. The flip shop stop thing may be good to stop the work from slipping, but does anyone use the 1/32 adjustment? Anyway, I may be thick but I can't figure it out.

Richard

The Flip Fence & Flip Stop Shop are upgradeable to Metric, in fact all the 1000se's we sell come with a free upgrade kit. Frankly the real benefits of the fence are lost if you don't use the flip fence to its fullest design capabilities. The Flip Stop is great for initial cutting (docking) to length then dropping the inboard leg of the stop and finish cutting the reversed workpiece. The profiled fence face and the interfacing stop legs allow for cutting mitres and other acute angles without the point 'sneaking' under the stop.

It is important to remember that the real benefit of the Incra system is repeatabiliy, achieved by the fact that the stop will lock back into any 1mm location within 1000th" time after time.

Its great to see you got a replacement bar worked out, it's too good a system to be let down by a weird table saw slot!!! Email us if you'd like a upgrade kit.

Regards

The Woodworker

[RichardL]

Hi Woodworker and thanks for the reply, yes it is great to finally get the thing operational. Thanks for the offer but I have actually got the metric conversion kit, but couldn't really figure out how it works as the green 1 mm toothed strips are longer than the shop stop. They must fit somehow.

I appreciate what you say about repeatability and I'll certainly use the shop stop as you described. I just couldn't figure out whether the measure tape supplied (metric or imperial) was easily used. For example, it seems to be cut off at an odd length, how can the tape measure between the saw blade - well the edge of a carbide tip - and the work piece accurately? It doesn't appear to be explained in the notes that came with gauge (or I have lost a page). Or isn't that the purpose?

I suppose, in the end, I'll do a test cut, adjust the shop stop and then it is set to make repeatable cuts. Great for the octaganal clock I'm about to start.

Presumably using the gauge on the RHS isn't a problem although it'll take a bit of practice for me to do things back to front.

[Gwhat]

Hi Woodworker and thanks for the reply, yes it is great to finally get the thing operational. Thanks for the offer but I have actually got the metric conversion kit, but couldn't really figure out how it works as the green 1 mm toothed strips are longer than the shop stop. They must fit somehow.

I appreciate what you say about repeatability and I'll certainly use the shop stop as you described. I just couldn't figure out whether the measure tape supplied (metric or imperial) was easily used. For example, it seems to be cut off at an odd length, how can the tape measure between the saw blade - well the edge of a carbide tip - and the work piece accurately? It doesn't appear to be explained in the notes that came with gauge (or I have lost a page). Or isn't that the purpose?

I suppose, in the end, I'll do a test cut, adjust the shop stop and then it is set to make repeatable cuts. Great for the octaganal clock I'm about to start.

Presumably using the gauge on the RHS isn't a problem although it'll take a bit of practice for me to do things back to front.

Richard

The Metric Racks are longer which just means you need fewer, and the one in the Flip Shop Stop can be cut down if you're the fussy type. When installing the new racks make sure they are in 'pitch' by pressing a mating rack to them before you tighten the fixings. The scales are then cut as required and slid into place and calibrated to your blade.

Yes working on the RHS will take a little getting used to, but some saws only give this option, as they say, PRACTICE!!!!

Enjoy.

Regards

The Woodworker

[RichardL]

Good one, thanks for the advice. Just made an octagon - works perfectly!

[Gwhat]

Good one, thanks for the advice. Just made an octagon - works perfectly!

Chris Taylor owner of Incra has made dodecahedrons on these mitre gauges, they're 12 sided object whose faces are pentagons. That requires exact angles cut at a compound angle.

That's where the repeatability comes in, including accuracy to a 50th of a degree.

Regards

The Woodworker

[Stuart]

I just need a tablesaw with a mitre track.....

[Big Shed]

Richard

The Metric Racks are longer which just means you need fewer, and the one in the Flip Shop Stop can be cut down if you're the fussy type.

The Woodworker


If you weren't the fussy type you probably wouldn't buy Incra, I've got the 1000SE and I think it is magic! But then I'm the fussy type!:rolleyes:

[Gwhat]

I just need a tablesaw with a mitre track.....

Stuart
In the US were are referred to as the land of the weird size mitre slot, when we have to contend with some old Paulcall, Dyco's etc. I've not even mentioned the Triton mitre slot.

These days it seems for very little more than what you pay for the workcentre + decent saw + DC bag, you can buy a fully featured 10" tablesaw, that has a blade that tilts, has 'real' mitre slots, and is painted in a colour that doesn't require you to wear sunnies when using it?

There is a new Jet 'economy Super Saw' that is very impressive and takes all the Incra gear.

Interesting to see the evolution of economical & practical hobby machines.

Regards

The Woodworker

[Stuart]

Working on it.....but first I need a bigger shed, then some way of affording the saw, then some way of justifying it..... :sigh:

[RichardL]

Stuart
In the US were are referred to as the land of the weird size mitre slot, when we have to contend with some old Paulcall, Dyco's etc. I've not even mentioned the Triton mitre slot.

These days it seems for very little more than what you pay for the workcentre + decent saw + DC bag, you can buy a fully featured 10" tablesaw, that has a blade that tilts, has 'real' mitre slots, and is painted in a colour that doesn't require you to wear sunnies when using it?

There is a new Jet 'economy Super Saw' that is very impressive and takes all the Incra gear.

Interesting to see the evolution of economical & practical hobby machines.

Regards

The Woodworker

Just a note on the Dyco, I think the intention is that it is supposed to be a real mitre slot, I'm just guessing that my particular table isn't done right. They are certainly machined parallel to each other and to the blade (which is a relief). I'm trying to find out whether Dyco are still manufacturing and if they are I'll contact them and make the suggestion that they do make their table slots completely standard so others avoid the problems I have had. Like everything, my machine is a compromise, it doesn't tilt (like the orange machines you mention) as the same belt/motor drives the jointer.

[hitch]

I have the same problem with a Bosch GT10. It has T slots and I believed them to be 3/4" - the sides of the groove are about 3mm narrower. I didn't want to play around with the 1000se nor dismantle the saw to enable milling as some told me I would have to. Eventually found an engineering shop that say they can accurately widen the slots to 3/4" without dismantling. It happens this Tuesday. Will post the outcome. Should say that the table is aluminium which, in this instance, could be an advantage. Looking forward to trying out my metrically converted 1000se.