Falcon smoothing plane

[sam63]

Does anyone know anything about old Falcon smoothing planes made by a company called Pope? Is it worth getting it?

Regards,
Sami

[DonN]

If you are prepaired to take the time to tune the plane it is well worth getting. These planes we made in Australia in competion to Stanley.
DonN

[BrianT]

Sami,

Unable to assist with any advice but have just recently found a '9 in' Falcon when clearing out the folk's shed. I assume the manufacturer 'Pope' is now the whitegoods production Co, Simpson Pope in Sth Oz.

Any background history from the 'old tools experts'. Derek???

I lost all interest in hand planes when back in prehistoric times the w/w teacher threw a chisel at me because I put the plane down on the blade rather than always on it's side.:(

Cheers
Brian @ Burra

[craigb]

He THREW A CHISEL at you ???

Good grief !!

[BrianT]

Yep. and he became even more peeved when the chisel hit the concrete floor - ' bout the only thing of importance I recall from my school days.:D

Brian

[craigb]

So how peeved would he have been if he hit you ??

Gotta be looking at grievous bodily harm at least - if not attempted murder.

I know things were different in the past - but even so,
the bastard should have been instantly dissmissed IMO.

[Wood Borer]

Sharpening is important and we all take pride when we sharpen tools spot on but it seems your teacher may have been slightly over obsessed with sharpening.

Good to see the teacher liked to look after sharp blades, a pity he placed more emphasis on the blades than your life.

Who sharpened the chisel after it hit the deck?

Did you get a good mark and report for woodwork?

- Wood Borer

[BrianT]

With modest, at best, planing and sharpening skills - it wasn't me - in what was a short interlude in the 'practical science' course.

Sorry, Sami, you can have your thread back - with many people expressing their passion for hand planes and seeing many blade down - it stirred a few memories.:rolleyes:

And I would like to know more about Falcon planes.

Cheers

Brian

[derekcohen]

I'm afraid I don't know much about Falcon planes. Haven't really paid attention to them. From bits I've gleaned, they were copes of the Stanley-Bailey planes (as were so many other brands).

Frankly, given that the prices on second-hand Stanleys and Records can be in the $30 - $50 range (and more expensive ones up to $100), I think it is better to go for one of these. The Falcons are likely to be poorer quality, and needing much more tuning. They may be better collector items (because of a rarity factor), but if you're a user I personally would pass on one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dennis Hill]

I have a Pope Falcon and a couple of Stanleys of the same size (No 4&1/2) The falcon seems about the same as the Stanleys, Very similar design and just as out of tune as the stanleys were.
Just because they are not as popular as the Stanley does not mean they are of lesser quality. Being popular is often influnced by marketing. Look at the popularity VHS video recorders V. the Betamax format. The Beta is the better of the operating systems but VHS won the marketing war.
Just my $0.02 (+GST) worth.
;)

[derekcohen]

Dennis

You may well be correct - I really do not mean to make is sound as if I am stating that Stanley are better than Falcon. I have not even handled one. I am saying that, given Stanley's reputation for being better quality than the rest (especially the imitators), I would intuitively go for Stanley (or Record). Especially if the price was similar. Of course, this view would change very rapidly if someone more knowledgable than I - and I mean you - offered some objective comparitive evidence about these planes.

Tell us a bit more. Why are they "just as out of tune"? What had you done to tune them? Howdid they compare (e.g. how long did it take to flatten the soles, sharpen the blades, how long did they hold an edge, in what type of timber did they work best)?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dennis Hill]

This is a really hard question because I am relying on "gut feelings" rather than some technical sort of comparison.
Looking at the two bodies without all the removable bits cluttering things up there is little diference in design, save for the minor changes that would be needed to get around the patents people. The castings are about as good (or bad) as each other.
The blades (irons?) seem similar in thickness and of similar quality.
As for holding an edge? This woodworker couldn't sharpen a plane to a decent edge to save his life!
My feeling is that for the average weekend woodbutcher like me there is little, if any, diference between the two. For the perfectionist who lives and breathes hand planes, well, there are better fish in the ocean than these common bits of stuff. They may cost as much as my car and have cryogenically tempered blades but they would still do the same (poor) job in the hands of a mug like me

[sam63]

Thanks for the information everyone. Could anyone also tell me how these old planes compare with the current version of Record or Stanley smoothing planes? I know you expert do not think very highly of them. Is there a difference between Stanley and Record at all?

Regards
Sam

[Darwin]

Hi,

Have a look at the Hand Tool Association of Australia's website, with their page on Falcon-Pope plane:

http://www.htpaa.org.au/

Under "Australian Gallery" in the menu on the left of the home page.

My understanding is that they outsouced the casting of the bodies (and other parts) to different factories over time, so there is a lot of variation in quality, including thickness of casting, machining, fit of parts, etc. I have seen some in real bad condition, but conversely some in great condition that when cleaned up work at least as welll as a similar Stanley.

Number is similar so Stanley or Record blades, caps, etc should fit as replacement parts.

Regards,

Darren