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View Full Version : Spindle moulder - use and cutter supplier



Mr. Minimax
4th September 2003, 04:00 PM
Just become the new owner of a spindle moulder.
Took the precaution of buying a video for beginner users but it's very basic.
Can anybody point me in the right direction towards obtaining more instruction in:
a) Learning to use it
b) The best place to see and/or buy the range of cutters to use.

All I've done with it so far is to edge some timber and do some rebating. I know it's capable of much more than this

I live in Adelaide

BrianT
4th September 2003, 04:52 PM
'afternoon Mr Minimax,

Seems like we are both in a similar situation - see Router tuition.

For interest, I contacted the Sec of Woodgroup SA Inc -
83-964748 - re advice. The group is having its monthly meeting tonight at Thebarton Senior college and he is going to ask around to see if anyone is able to assist me.

It may be worth giving him a call and seeing what assistance may be around for your specific need.

I have tried to contact Western Woodworkers but haven't had any luck as yet.

Good luck

Brian@Burra. ;)

Grue
4th September 2003, 06:32 PM
Check out Lonnie Bird's The Shaper Book. Taunton Press. Excellent job of explaining most of the basics, plus.

The yanks call them shapers.

"Shaper Handbook" by R.Cliffe and M.Holtz.

They love eating fingers so proceed with care.

Glenn

John Saxton
4th September 2003, 08:56 PM
Nothing less than professional tuition should be regarded using this machine,most practical is the local TAFE college.

Too many in their ignorance have been the perpetrators of their own misfortune with these machines.
Probably one of the most dangerous machines in a woodworking environment so tuition is a definite before tackling the versatility on these machines ie tilting spindles/false fences etc.

Cheers:)

kenmil
4th September 2003, 09:45 PM
Oooh, nasty.

www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin/pg000335.htm

julianx
4th September 2003, 11:44 PM
I don't know what the newer ones are like but we had an old one where I did my apprenticeship. It threw a cutter once, the blade flew 30 metres accross the workshop went through a cavity fibro wall then through corrogated iron shed next door and stuck into a hardwood post. I'm with johnno definatly one of the most dangerous woodworking machines.

Daniel
5th September 2003, 12:13 AM
Forget about going to the Tafes expecialy in Victoria, I was told they have removed them, much too dangerous.

My brother is a Workcover Inspector and he said there are two bad machines in industry, one is in the metal industry and the other is the shaper and he speaks from personal experience by losing a finger too one when he was running his own kitchen company.

He regulary attends accidents where people have lost more than a finger or two.

As an apprentice I was always fearful of the shaper being setup and started because the blades had a habit of flying out, no keepers to hold them in, luckily it did not happen when I was there but the evidence was deeply imbedded in the walls of the factory.

My advice would be get a power feed and I thought they were going to bring in a law where it was compulsory to have these on the machines when they were sold.


Daniel

Eastie
5th September 2003, 01:30 PM
Spindle moulders statistically account for around 15% of wood working machinery injuries. They come third to circular saws with around 35% and 25% for planers and thicknessers. For all the rest the link below leads to some good safety info on these machines:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis18.pdf


Following from above, to say that manufacturers must supply them with auto feeds is simple logic, however to expect all suppliers to provide it on all unit sold is illogical. It's costly and not required under law for home use (workplaces are different). Sort of like banning kids from buying smokes but not not banning them from actually smoking, or alternatively taking the moral high ground and banning cigarettes - a decision that seems logical for many is illogical on 'the books' and in terms of enforcement. For every logical concept there is an equally illogical alternative that often prevails. This is why there is a lot of machinery/powered tools on the market that don't meet OHS plant/machinery laws. You can purchase them to use at home but not in a workplace - laws dictate workers must be protected, but in your back yard you can do what you will.


In relation to having blades detach and fly off, this is pure stupidity of either the operator, the person responsible for the selection and maintenance of tooling and the machine, or both.

Daniel
6th September 2003, 01:11 AM
Eastie

I appears you have not used a shaper in a comercial situation and if you have its been in a very sterile environment.

I could tell you of many stories of shaper incidents but you would probably call them pure stupidity I suppose.

Accidents do happen in the workplace and power saws do account for injuries but mostly minor and I can vouch for that but for all the people that I have been told about, who have been injured by the shaper or buzzer, (spindle moulder and planer) have lost fingers, hands or even parts of arms. Major damage not minor damage.

Hopefully blades flying out are a thing of the past but then it was only last year that I heard one of Melbournes major funrniture manufactures was running shapers without blade keepers, thats a recipe for danger, but things like this still occur in industry and thats why the government is spending so much money on safety.

The power feed issue was advice only and not simple logic as you put it, if I can give advice that will save someone from injury then I am more than happy too.

The other thing is, if a Workcover/Worksafe inspector supects there is an unsafe act being carried out in your back yard then he has the right by law to enter your premises at any time, day or night and give you a notice to stop that unsafe act. I suggest you speak to Workcover/Worksafe about this to get your facts right.

Please name the power tools and machinery that are on the market that do not meet OH&S laws because I am sure Workcover/Worksafe would like this information.


Daniel

peter mikk
8th September 2003, 08:43 AM
cutters a good sharpening business will make cutters to your specs, and keep these shapes on file so you get the same profile every sharpen, cmt have a large selection of off the shelf profiles as do others, re power feed, these are the only way go when doinig work on straight edges, much safer and a better job, but hand feed you still need to do when working to jigs and doind curves etc. stay clear of the old square head machines!!! you will have to duck very quickly..although i have never had a cutter come lose.

Eastie
8th September 2003, 12:45 PM
Daniel, I'm taken aback by your hurtful, defamatory, unjust, biased comments - perhaps I'll sue :D

I’ve used one, I own one (needs major upgrade) and went through trade school using one now and then. I stand by my words.
You're probably right, the places I've used them were probably 'sterile environments' as the people looking after the gear did it with knowledge, respect and passion. They didn't wait twenty years to upgrade cutter heads to all but eliminate these problems.

You're also right that I'd probably call each of the incidents you refer to pure stupidity if given the luxury of time to investigate. I say "probably" because I'd hate to have to eat my words if I found one of those incidents to be a result of gross negligence, or in other words an indictable offence that give the boss a handsome 4+ figure fine and/or a luxurious holiday in one of her majesties finest chill out retreats

Now that I've allowed you some ground in accepting you are right - twice I might add - I must retort to that vicious rumour that WorkSafe Inspectors can enter your house and stop you woodworking, welding, etc... Pull the other one :rolleyes:

It’s all in the legislation, and it appears my interpretation differs from yours.
Have a look at the OHS Act 1985 - especially at the definition of "workplace" and then look at S.39 Powers of Inspectors.
If it is not a workplace they have no power under this Act. I, along with every major newspaper and millions of backyard diy enthusiasts would be very interested if you could get written legal advice from two independent QC’s to the contrary.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/

They can however enter land and give directions in relation to the following:


They can enter your property to investigate if it is a workplace. If it is not a workplace they have no powers;
They do have powers to uphold the Dangerous Goods Act in relation to the storage/use of dangerous goods (workplace or not); and
They have powers to uphold the Equipment (Public Safety) Regulations in relation to amusement structures, scaffolds, boilers, bridge crane, laser, ewp’s ... (again workplace or not).


This is how they prohibit owner builders using incomplete or dodgy scaffolds. If you are using your shed to house machinery that you make an income from (i.e. self employed), then you may be in the poo.

I didn't intend to say that your advice on power feeds was crap - I whole heartily support it. I was just putting my 2 bobs worth in on the double standards that we as a society accept.

Eastie.


PS - I guess all this crap backs up the origianl intent of the thread - if you use a spindle moulder do yourself and your family a favour and get yourself some good tuition http://www.ubeaut.biz/thumbupwink.gif

silentC
8th September 2003, 01:12 PM
I worked in a staircase factory a few years ago in Sydney. I was on the spindle moulder about 25% of my day and on the saws, jointer and thicknesser the rest. Of all the machines in the shop, I had the most respect for the spindle moulder, as did everyone else. When starting it up, we would yell 'spindle' and everyone in the shop would duck until it got up to warp speed.

We never had an accident. I put that down to the caution with which we treated it at all times. It was about 100 years old and had been converted from some kind of external belt drive setup (probably horse drawn ;) ) to a modern electric motor. The blade holders were secured with a round nut that we did up with a plumbers wrench with the handle jammed into a 5 foot long bit of waterpipe. If Worksafe had been around then, we'd have been shutdown for certain.

It still gives me the horrors thinking about the thing to this day.

Mr. Minimax
8th September 2003, 03:47 PM
Thanks everybody, especially Eastie.
Bit surprising to see how a simple enquiry can arouse such passion tho'

Sir Stinkalot
8th September 2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Eastie
Daniel, I'm taken aback by your hurtful, defamatory, unjust, biased comments - perhaps I'll sue :D

What do they say about those who live in glass houses? :D

Eastie's Hurtful, defamatory, unjust, biased comments side. (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4817) :p

Eastie
8th September 2003, 04:53 PM
Ok I give in – You Sir Stinkalot are the greatest poll creator. Let it be known that Stinky’s polls are the best (despite the website)http://www.ubeaut.biz/crying.gif


Oh, BTW I could walk into any machinery or hardware supplier and more than likely name a number of products that do not stack up to the OHS Plant Regulations. Any decent WorkSafe inspector could do the same. I discuss these issues with builders every week, but I don't and won't name products/companies here for the reasons that are listed at the top of each forum. Enough people are being sued/sueing without me getting involved. Nuf said - I'll shut up now.