Chainsaw sharpening

[TEEJAY]

Now this one has me a bit perplexed.

I have a simple stihl chainsaw file and guide - hand held push and pull file - real easy. Doesn't champ onto anything just freehand. It sharpens the saw chain and I have had reasonable results.

I also have a dremel type grinder (Granberg 12V) that has small diameter stones that grind the saw blade sharp.

Now plus's and minus's for these are:-

FILE

File it works fine - doesn't need a battery (12v) just me and I think i am getting pretty good results.

I have found I need to remove the guide to enable the file to work underneath the chisel and at the throat of the cutter - if it is kept screwed to the guide it just files away the chisel and doesn't sharpen the throat. Anyone else agree with this??

GRINDER

The grinder is okay IF you have the right size stone - too big and it destroys the chain by cutting away the chisel to get into the throat.

The chain has to have the oil and crap wire brushed clear to ensure the grind wheel doesn't fill with gunk and clog it.

I have had a number of wheels, stones or little grinders (call them what you will) just disintegrate very early in the sharpening process.

The battery is an extra weight on trips and I have had a couple (motorbike batteries $100 each) and they lasted next to no time - just near run them flat and stuffed :~ . So this has stung me twice now on two trips.


SO I have to wonder what are people's preferences in effective chainsaw sharpening and why.

Paid $12 each for my last two sharpenings when the saw was serviced and they sharpened one only :(( (I put the unsharpened chain on tried to cut down a 600 diameter tree (a bit anxious) and got a few inches into it and smoke everywhere - blunt as!!! Thought I had even put the chain on backwards - is that possible?? :rolleyes: Anyway filed it and continued - wasn't happy paying $12 for eactly no sharpening. Yes it was blunt - cutting a tree into ground is hard on a saw.

I guess we all have stories about sharpening places grinding too much off the saw and never going there again.

WHAT WORKS FOR YOU ???

Me I am prefering the file and freehand, but I did think the grinder was good when it was all set up right and the chain was clean - so may give it another go - reluctant to buy another $100 battery if it dies real soon though.

[DJ’s Timber]

Freehand with an unguided file

[Big Shed]

Freehand with guide.

[Barry_White]

Teejay

This is what I use.

[slabber]

12 volt sharpener is the go , buy yourself a cheep battery charger and keep an old car battery on charge at all times, works for me:2tsup:

[Ironwood]

I use a guide similar to the one Bazza has in his pic, mine is an "Oregon" branded one, available from Husqvuarna dealers, I think I paid $45 for it about 10 years ago.

Once you have set all the angles and depth of cut it produces quick, consistant resharpens in no time, mine has paid for itself many times over.

Just clamp it on the bar, give each cutter the same number of file strokes, and you'll have a chain that is perfect each time.

[DavidG]

I use one of these (http://www.right-tool.com/orchainsawsh.html)
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/right-tool_1955_11838581
then a file during the day to keep the edge..

[Barry_White]

Just a few other comments because I didn't have time to add any more because SWMBO had dinner on the table and she gets agro if I don't come straight away and I will get punished.

I use this out when getting firewood and when the chain gets worn down about half way I put it on the 240 volt electric one to get all the teeth equal again or if I have hit the Granite soil, because that really takes the edge off a chain.

[Jedo_03]

stead of buying a car battery - buy one of those starter units... they even charge from your car cig lighter...
I've got one and it has an inverter on it and I run electric lights off it and even boiled up the kettle with it...
Never tried an elec CS on it - but theres a thought...
Jedo

[outback]

I have used the perzact same thing as Barry, with pretty good results.

I Then moved to a Carlton file-o-plate. A really simple system which is quick, easy, and effective. It is about the only thing going which inherently allows for the shortening of the cutter tooth as it wears.

I have recently bought a 240v grinder, which is a knock off of the Oregon pictured in David's post. I am still on a learning curve with it, but when I get it right, it cuts gooder than a new chain. Never blame a 240v grinder for poor results, losing half your chain or bluing of cutters. Blame the dill using it.

[echnidna]

I use a file but will get a grinder like outbacks, a knockoff oregon.

Millers Falls units brand new on ebay are around $70 to $80

I'll still sharpen with a file when in the bush but will grind after every 4 to 6 file resharpens if only to re-establish proper angles etc

[Dean]

Eze-Lap make a diamond chainsaw sharpening bit designed for 500-2000RPM drills It easily outlasts the Dremel stones and sharpens really fast! Have used mine in a cordless drill with good success, although it gets tiring holding the drill at the right angle after a while :rolleyes:

$19-$20 at Bunnies (in the sharpening section of the Tool aisles).

[Stu in Tokyo]

On site, I just free hand, unless I hit a rock or nail, but at night, when I get home, I sharpen with a jig, like Barry's

I don't like the dremel things, I think it is WAY too easy to take off WAY too much.

[TTIT]

Eze-Lap make a diamond chainsaw sharpening bit designed for 500-2000RPM drills It easily outlasts the Dremel stones and sharpens really fast! Have used mine in a cordless drill with good success, although it gets tiring holding the drill at the right angle after a while :rolleyes:

$19-$20 at Bunnies (in the sharpening section of the Tool aisles).I've got a diamond version made for the Dremel which does a beautiful job if you just want to touch up without removing a heap of meat! :2tsup: Don't think it was eze-lap though - came from some mob in Geelong. Could probably find the details if anyone want them.

[West OZ Mark]

I use a 240v grinder the same as DavidG and I have 3 chains. I sharpen them all up at home and any time a chain gets blunt just rip it off and chuck a sharp one on. Saves mucking around in the dirt and dust during the day when you could be busy making sawdust:2tsup:

[Dean]

Eze-Lap make a diamond chainsaw sharpening bit designed for 500-2000RPM drills

Let me correct that. The speed range is actually 200 - 5000 RPM :doh:

[TEEJAY]

Just a few other comments because I didn't have time to add any more because SWMBO had dinner on the table and she gets agro if I don't come straight away and I will get punished.

I use this out when getting firewood and when the chain gets worn down about half way I put it on the 240 volt electric one to get all the teeth equal again or if I have hit the Granite soil, because that really takes the edge off a chain.

BW I am thinking that part of the problem I have is I have been just sharpening up the chain with the file and although the teeth seem sharp and straight I use the saw and find it tracks straight off line and then jambs as it is trying to cut ä "U" and then the bar gets stuck.

Does the 240V sharpener you use fix the blade so it will then track straight? Is the type the same as David G has? What is the price of these?

I find the file is fine for touch up and perhaps properly tuned so will be the dremel type with one of those industrial diamond bits instead of the stones.

I need something that I can use at home to get the chain into good shape before I head out west - I am now accumulating some spare chains and can find the time at home to prepare as my trips are only once or twice a year.

Thanks for the feedback guys lots of great info here. No wonder this is called the brains trust - very diverse ways and many have merit.

As for using the dremel type and finding it takes too much off when I used mine I just did two gentle strokes and this worked fine - but with oversized stone - what a disaster - but out in the bush i had nothing else and just hacked up the chain in order to get some kind of cutting edge - oh well one for experience. That was two trips ago - this time I just used a file - it got me by but as I said I found the saw wasn't tracking straight and I want to fix this now.

[TEEJAY]

Let me correct that. The speed range is actually 200 - 5000 RPM :doh:

Does this have the little threaded end that fits into a dremel type attachment that i can use in the granberg sharpener?

[Barry_White]

BW I am thinking that part of the problem I have is I have been just sharpening up the chain with the file and although the teeth seem sharp and straight I use the saw and find it tracks straight off line and then jambs as it is trying to cut ä "U" and then the bar gets stuck.

Does the 240V sharpener you use fix the blade so it will then track straight? Is the type the same as David G has? What is the price of these?

I find the file is fine for touch up and perhaps properly tuned so will be the dremel type with one of those industrial diamond bits instead of the stones.

I need something that I can use at home to get the chain into good shape before I head out west - I am now accumulating some spare chains and can find the time at home to prepare as my trips are only once or twice a year.

Thanks for the feedback guys lots of great info here. No wonder this is called the brains trust - very diverse ways and many have merit.

As for using the dremel type and finding it takes too much off when I used mine I just did two gentle strokes and this worked fine - but with oversized stone - what a disaster - but out in the bush i had nothing else and just hacked up the chain in order to get some kind of cutting edge - oh well one for experience. That was two trips ago - this time I just used a file - it got me by but as I said I found the saw wasn't tracking straight and I want to fix this now.

Teejay

Not the same brand as DavidG but works on the same principle.

I had bought a new chain and I cut up a very big log that was full of dirt carried into it by the ants and by the time i had finished cutting it the chain was very blunt. I tried sharpening it with the hand jig but I ended up getting the teeth uneven and it ended up like you said cutting in a curve and jambing the saw.

I put it on the 240 volt sharpener and evened up all the teeth and hey presto it was just like a new one.

If you have a heap of chains it would be ideal for what you want to do. The best part about it is that it levels all the teeth up and this is the sort of thing the chainsaw shops use.

The most important thing with chainsaw chains is that every tooth has to be exactly the same. Not just in the length of the tooth but also all the angles have to be the same.

The trouble with the Dremel one is that you are I imagine are sighting the angles and eventually they will all start to vary. That is why you need a jig.

The 240 volt one I have is an Oregon.

See the pic.

[orraloon]

Hi
I only use a file now and do it in the vise. I take at least 4 sharp chains with me in the bush as I can not get a good result with the chain on the bar. The rotary tools sharpen ok but take too much off ans shorten the life of the chain. On the anual service of the saw I get the chains sharpened at the shop to even up the teeth. I have had some rather poor jobs done at some sharpening services over the years. I have scribed lines on top of the vice so I can see the file is at the correct angle. I stop cutting as soon as the chain starts to loose performance and put on a sharp one so they only need about 2 file strokes per tooth. It is also important to square up the edge of the bar with a stone from time to time to keep the cut strait. Most saw manuals show how to do this.
For me the file works as good as anything and is the method I have settled with after trying most of the rest. One last tip is to have a spare sharp file as a file only lasts so long. Toss it when it is not cutting like it should.

Regards
John

[DJ’s Timber]

TJ, when you say that your saw is cutting off line, how much of the teeth is left?

Done at the mill we have found that once you have used roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the teeth on the slabber with the skip tooth, the cut starts to wander regardless of what it was sharpened on.

The interesting thing to notice with this is that it only happens with hardwood but not softwood.

[Barry_White]

One other point that hasn't been mentioned is that another thing that can cause a chain to cut in a circle and jamb is as the teeth are worn down the rakers also need to be filed down.

There is a guage that is available to check the height of the rakers. For this you need a good fine tooth file made especially for this and should be available at any good chainsaw shop.

[TEEJAY]

TJ, when you say that your saw is cutting off line, how much of the teeth is left?

Done at the mill we have found that once you have used roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the teeth on the slabber with the skip tooth, the cut starts to wander regardless of what it was sharpened on.

The interesting thing to notice with this is that it only happens with hardwood but not softwood.

Good question DJ - without a doubt the skip-tooth slabber I have is stuffed the cutting of a backyard mango a little while back completed stuffed it - nine nails in one slab - a 8mm coach bolt in another - but yes I did push it one more trip out west - this chain is worn out. i have one more spare of this size for slabbing and will get another new one. This one is worn but still slabs okay with a bit of a shudder as the occassional crap tooth bites in. This chain has about 11 links between each cutting tooth so even on the 56"bar there are only about 20 cutting teeth.

The chain that is tracking badly is the chain on the small 36" bar for cross-cutting. I can't even cross cut a small branch or lop a tree as it cuts badly off track. Quickly enough but no direction. There is plenty of life left in this chain.

Before I went away they were supposed to sharpen both chains at service but only did the slabbing chain = so the other chain is the one I had problems with on the smaller bar.

Got out west lined up my redgum and scratched the surface and then smoke - WOW.

Yes I know these shouldn't be allowed to get this blunt but cutting the mango into the root system and then dirt - that day wasn't a pretty day in slabbing.

I am looking at getting another cross cut chain and another slabbing chain so should have two good one's of each for next trip - and one emergency slabbing chain (the one I use now :rolleyes: ) it's worn out and done it's day. Just it was brand new before meeting the mango so I had to get one more day from it before retiring it - poor thing - what a day - must have cut through one bolt and about 40-50 nails (some big nails) - criminal - no more suburban backyard trees for me.

Thanks for your reply BW - what sorta money are these 240V one's and where?

Araloon the only problem i have with the file approach is getting them all even to fix the tracking with a file. You can get them sharp and at the right angle but not all even relative to one another that the 240V machines do. Once they are damaged or have uneven wear is there no other way than one of these 240V systems?

[notenoughtoys]

If you are cutting out in the bush (or anywhere really) you should learn to sharpen correctly with a hand file. Although you should carry spare chains, to run them till they are blunt and change over is false economy, you can sharpen a chain in the time it takes to change one over and tension it correctly. The time that you are spending cutting with a dull chain is destroying the chain and bar. Ideally you would have a selection of chains both chisel and chipper depending on the conditions and wood.
The cutting teeth should not be allowed to get dull or blunt in the first place, it's better to file a little, often. The best indication is the chips the chain is producuing, as soon as there is a hint a of dust, run the file over the chain. Get yourself a wood vice, a 6" shifter, file guide kit either stihl or oregon etc and have a handful of files (of the appropriate diameter), these are a consumable item, don't perservere with a "blunt" file but do rotate them in the guide as you use them to ensure you get the best use out of them. And remember, files are directional, apply pressure on the stroke, lift away from the tooth on the return otherwise you lay the teeth over and wreck the file.
The first thing to do when sharpening is to inspect the chain, looking for things such as broken or missing teeth, rivets, tie straps etc. Ensure the chain is correctly tensioned (do not re tension a hot chain). On a semi regular basis, you should go along with your little shifter (bush micrometer) and check that all the cutting teeth are the same length, if not find the shortest and take the time to file them all back to this length, this is not as hard as it sounds. Why is this important? Cutting teeth are ramped to allow the heel to kick slightly without lifting the leading edge out of the timber. As the tooth gets shorter it gets lower. If teeth are different heights, they are not all doing their share of the work. This is why the bar will sometimes "steer" to the left or right (one of many reasons it happens). Teeth are alternated left/right, if the teeth on the left or right are sharper or taller, they are the dominant cutting edge and will pull to that side. After sharpening is completed, we must go through with a flat file and our guide and check that all the depth gauges are the same/correct height for the same reason.
How often you sharpen and how many strokes of the file are required will depend on the conditions and the wood, Ideally tho, you should only need around 4 - 6 strokes per tooth to "keep it sharp". If you have the correct guide for the chain, the guide will set your face angle for you. Some chains require a slight tilt of the file, some don't. Check that when the file is against the cutting teeth, it makes contact all the way along the tooth, some people tend to drop the heel as they stroke, losing contact with all but the point and tend to round the tooth or wonder why it feels sharp, but doesn't hold an edge for too long. Remember, you are filing up into the tooth, not down into the gullet, the pressure should be pulling the file up and back to you (slightly). File all left (or right) teeth first from the inside of the tooth to the outside, hop onto the other side of the bar and file all the opposite teeth. You will hear/feel the file if you are doing it correctly. It's like playing pool, just let your arm swing on the elbow/shoulder, don't push the whole arm or you will get off line. Once done, as I said, now check your depth gauges for height.

Now go home and throw out that electric grinder (just joking). They are useful for re setting the teeth periodically but should be used with care, chainsaw shops love em because they chew away a chain fast and you will need to replce them more often. They need to be set at the correct angles obviously and apply very little pressure or you will overheat the teeth quickly and you won't be able to keep an edge (no different to your chisels etc)

I hope that's helpful and sorry it's so long winded but there are a host of variables that can frustrate people when trying to care for their chain.

Bob K

[TEEJAY]

One other point that hasn't been mentioned is that another thing that can cause a chain to cut in a circle and jamb is as the teeth are worn down the rakers also need to be filed down.

There is a guage that is available to check the height of the rakers. For this you need a good fine tooth file made especially for this and should be available at any good chainsaw shop.


Hmmm - no I haven't been filing down the rackers - should look more closely into this.

The chain is in good condition and has a lt of life left in it though - but will get a guage for this and a file and investigate - thanks again

[notenoughtoys]

Yes I know these shouldn't be allowed to get this blunt but cutting the mango into the root system and then dirt - that day wasn't a pretty day in slabbing.


TJ, if you are cutting down into roots etc, you might want to consider tungsten tipped chains or even tungsten impregnated chains. I've used both these for various applications. They are expensive to buy, you have to take them to a specialist to get sharpened, they can lose a tip or two if the suddenly strike something but if your going into remote areas and boring down into dirt and roots, they are worth considering for reliability.

Bob K

[TEEJAY]

Bob K,

A lot of good stuff there thanks.

Yes you are right frequent touch ups are the go - but my last day at a mango had the saw blunt and the demel with the wrong size stone (sold to me by the saw shop as the perfect stone) that did more damage than good.

I attempted to rectify this with a professional shapening before the trip - but they didn't touch it (same saw shop :rolleyes: - dopey junior given the job). Hence i was in the bush with a blunt saw - sharpened it with file - nice and sharp but wouldn't cut straight.

So here I am trying to get to goods on how to get it right myself before next trip and more than happy to touch up on site with gentle dremel or file - and yes I took 8 files with me and wire brushed the chain clean before sharpening to make the file work best - it do too. But sharp and not straight.

[TEEJAY]

TJ, if you are cutting down into roots etc, you might want to consider tungsten tipped chains or even tungsten impregnated chains. I've used both these for various applications. They are expensive to buy, you have to take them to a specialist to get sharpened, they can lose a tip or two if the suddenly strike something but if your going into remote areas and boring down into dirt and roots, they are worth considering for reliability.

Bob K


Thanks Bob, but I get access to great timber out west and will happy leave backyard stuff to others.

What happening to your finger? - wasn't sharpening a chainsaw was it? :)

[notenoughtoys]

What happening to your finger? - wasn't sharpening a chainsaw was it? :)

Nope, not my finger, I just thought it would be an amusing avatar for a woodies forum.

[notenoughtoys]

" There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness" "

He He, my next ddor neighbour has one (a yard full) of those garden trains, I think he has fallen over that line poor bugger :no:

[Barry_White]

Here is a guage for checking the height of the rakers. You just sit the guage on top of the chain with the "U" shaped end over the raker and run your finger over the raker to see if it is sitting above the guage.

Another thing is if the rakers are filed down too far the chain will grab as you are cutting, but if they are too high the chain will ride on the rakers and the teeth wont cut.

Also a pic of the raker file.

Another handy little helper is this little book probably available from your favorite chainsaw reseller 72 pages packed with valuable information he doesn't want you to know.

[notenoughtoys]

sorry to get off subject but;

Barry, I have been reading posts most of the morning trying to get my head around how to resize and post a pic on here. You post was quite timely :2tsup: , could you pm me, if appropriate, the way you just did it??

Cheers

Bob K

[Barry_White]

Bob

There are several ways of doing it but I have a program that came with my Canon Scanner called PhotoStudio 5 and I just open the pic in that and click on edit and resize photo and just reduce the size until it is under 100k.

If you do a search there are several free photo resizer programmes around. I have one called "JPEG Compress" but it is no longer free.

Here is a link to another one. http://www.irfanview.com/

[notenoughtoys]

Bob

There are several ways of doing it but I have a program that came with my Canon Scanner called PhotoStudio 5 and I just open the pic in that and click on edit and resize photo and just reduce the size until it is under 100k.

If you do a search there are several free photo resizer programmes around. I have one called "JPEG Compress" but it is no longer free.

Here is a link to another one. http://www.irfanview.com/

Cheers for that, all sorted now.

Bob K

[johnnyroberts]

for what its worth, i think there are many ways to keep your chain sharp, people have different ways to achieve the exact same result, i think it comes down to what works for you, I use a clamp on jig that I use in a vice or stump vice, I get great results, I am however changing from this, the other day I completed my tree falling ticket, the chap taking the course, was a pro faller for a fair stint, gave me some good advice, he thinks the best way to sharpen is simply a file and handle, but how is that going to help me, well what I now do is use the jig still but for the next 2 sharpens try free hand, I can always go back to the jig if I stuff it up, also by going back to the jig I should be able to tell where I am going wrong free hand, eg to heavy fileing on my right hand compared to my left. I to thought files are directional but they are not . My course teacher was able to back stroke on the file as well as forwards, as he did this he also seemed to rotate the file on each stroke, I thought I kept my saw (66 magnum) fairly sharp but after using his 66 after he had sharpened it wow, it acually pulled me intowards the tree, for me the best advice has come from pro fallers and over here they seem to be of a very high standard .
regards john

ps the best things in life are not things

[BobL]

Last year I made a handsaw sharpening vice from some hardwood floorboards I posted this somewhere in a previous post. A couple of months ago it dawned on my that it could make a great chain vice.

The clamping screws are made from threaded pieces of brass plumbing and the screwing handles are old tap bodies. At the bottom front you will notice two tap handles. These move the clamp apart at the botton acting as a counterlever to provide additional clamping action. They work really well.

Photo 2 shows a close up of the chain so you can see how neatly it is gripped. It grips the drive links nice and tight and there is way less chattering than doing it on the bar, especially when filing square cut chain from the outside in!

A much better working height too, especially for blind people like me who need to wear a magnifier to see what they are doing

[soundman]

Hmm
a couple of things

You should be filing all the cutting surfaces of the tooth if the blade is in the correct shape with the guide on the file.
I used to free hand but use a a simple guide ( as i'm sure you have seen).
the file should be cutting the underside of the chisel and the edge of the upright all at the same time.
If the blade has been... Hmmmm......not sharpened straight and early enough it will take quite some work to get it back to the correct geometry.

It is my belief that whatever sharpening system you use you should use it and it alone, because different systems will give you a different tooth shape thus you will either not sharpen properly or you will ahve to remove too much material.

as for the saw no going straight..... either the geometry of the teeth is way out or it simply isnt sharp.

A sign that a chain is going off is that it wont cut straight.

so the tooth should look like a chisel..... the top surface should be flat and rising upward nad meet the sharpened edge at the uppermost point.
if you cant cut yourself with it it isnt sharp.

I always sharpen on the bar on the machine..... I most certainly prefer to do this in a vice.

I think it is unlikely that the crosscut chain you have is unsaveble.... if there is still enough tooth length I recon it can be saved.
I'm still prepared to put my file where my mouth is ( its a figure of speach).
bring it arround & i'll see what I can do.

as to getting chains " professionaly" sharpened......I did once....... never again.......and I've heard the same story many times..... chain comes back with half the life groud out of it.

cheers
(Soundman fellow mango disaster survivor)

[Wild Dingo]

Thanks Bazza for putting me onto this thread excellent information!! :2tsup:

Bob... that floorboard thing? does the chain run inside the groove of the board? sorta makes sence that... geez your either a real tightwad or your an original greenie recycling everything like that! :2tsup:

So Im best to stick with the sharpener thing like Baz shows (got the set from stihl) I think I'll shoot in and have a gander around Bunbury tomorrow and see what price those other dodats go for :;

My blade seems to go blunt faster than I can phart... dont know if its the timber or what just doesnt seem to hold sharp... and Im damned if Im taking it back to the dealer here might get another blade I reckon but Im doin all services and sharpening and keeping the $70 in my pocket! :~ the things come back BLUNT on both occasions Ive taken it to them so I may as well blunten it meself and keep me money! :doh:

Cheers!!

[BobL]

Bob... that floorboard thing? does the chain run inside the groove of the board? sorta makes sence that... geez your either a real tightwad or your an original greenie recycling everything like that! :2tsup:

Shane there are two floorboards in that gizmo, which is a hand saw sharpener. A simpler (easier to to understand ?) version is shown here (http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/ww/sawvise/images/front-of-sawvise.jpg).

I find it holds the chain much tighter than just leaving it in the bar so filing is a bit easier.

Cheers

[Barry_White]

Just a little side note. For the last 28 years all my chainsaw work was to gather fire wood. I have been using a couple of Jonsered saws for this. The chain I have always used is a Semi Chisel and had a top plate angle of 35 degrees and they always cut satisfactorily.

I recently bought a new chain and didn't take much notice of it until I came to sharpen it after cutting up a dirty log. When I went to put the jig on it with the top plate angle set at 35 degrees I realised that the top plate angle on the chain was set at 20 degrees.

In my Oregon chainsaw maintenance book a 20 degree angle is not mentioned anywhere. The closest being a ripping chain with a top plate angle of 10 to 15 degrees.

But the thing about it is that this chain is the best cutting chain I have ever used for dead hardwood.

When I go back to my Chainsaw dealer I will have to make some enquiries about it.

[jmk89]

UKAlf has an article from an old woodwork magazine on making a saw clamp on her website (http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwsawvice.html).

There is a chainsaw in dad's shed, but I don't think I will get around to using it for a while, so I don't need a chain sharpening vice yet - I put handsaws in my Sargent saw vice.

[DJ’s Timber]

I realised that the top plate angle on the chain was set at 20 degrees.



That's an interesting one Barry, do you know what brand the chain is?

[Barry_White]

That's an interesting one Barry, do you know what brand the chain is?

DJ

The chain came in an Oregon box but that isn't a guarantee so I went out and put a magnifying glass on the chain and it is definately an Oregon chain.

The interesting thing is that it surprised my brother-in-law who does a lot of logging for the local sawmill and also does a lot of firewood cutting. He couldn't believe how well that it cut and has always had his chains at a 35 degree angle for cross cutting.

Where I buy my gear is a Rural supplies store that has been around for 75 years or more and are one of the oldest chainsaw distributors in Tamworth. The day I bought the chain the regular guy that has been there for 30 years was on holidays and the guy that served me was like a Bunnings wally that usually only loaded the dog food on your vehicle and didn't know anything so when I go back in I will check with the regular guy.

They buy their chain in bulk and make up the chains in their workshop to suit the various bar lengths and then just put them into an Oregon box.

[outback]

C'mon BAz, you've had all day, what's the verdict?

[Barry_White]

C'mon BAz, you've had all day, what's the verdict?

Hey Outback

I live out of town and only go there once a week. So you'll have to wait.

[outback]

Excuses, excuses, if ya loved us you'd make a special trip. :p

[notenoughtoys]

I recently bought a new chain and didn't take much notice of it until I came to sharpen it after cutting up a dirty log. When I went to put the jig on it with the top plate angle set at 35 degrees I realised that the top plate angle on the chain was set at 20 degrees.



Barry are you sure that it's 20 degrees, by memory if it's oregon you will find it's 25 degrees. Don't lose too much sleep over it, the more aggressive the angle (35 degrees)the more edge meeting the wood at once and the better the chip, more aggressive tho and more prone to kickback at low revs. The less angle (25 degrees) the better they "slice" and less kickback. This is why 'ripping chains run at a much lower angle because they don't chip the wood but almost whittle it (for want of a better explanation). Don't forget that ripping vs crosscutting is accross the grain vs with the grain.
Both chains will run well and the average casual user will not notice the difference. Professional users will argue that they find X degrees work best for them. They generally sharpen by hand without a guide and set the chan up to suit their circumstances/preferencecs. Basically manufacturers have subtle differences to be able say (IMHO) that theirs is a superior product, if they all copied one, then it's the same as saying manufacturer X got it right.

Bob K

[rsser]

FWIW I'm waiting on a replacement chainsaw and have been trawling the web for material on sharpening and maintenance.

I expect the old hands know this but it's said that a round file is only good for 4-6 sharpenings. The outside of the cutters are supposed to be chrome which is hard on the files.

And wandering it appears can also be caused by a worn bar.

For relative newbies like me the following might be useful:

tp://www.sawmillchainsaws.com/sawchains.htm
http://www.chainsawspecialists.co.uk/chain_sharpening.htm (http://www.chainsawspecialists.co.uk/chain_sharpening.htm)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/2002-10-01/Keeping-Your-Chainsaw-Sharp.aspx (http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/2002-10-01/Keeping-Your-Chainsaw-Sharp.aspx)
http://www.oregonchain.com/tips.htm (http://www.oregonchain.com/tips.htm)
http://loghomelinks.com/articles/chainsaw-tips.htm (http://loghomelinks.com/articles/chainsaw-tips.htm)
http://chainsawguide.co.uk/index.htm (http://chainsawguide.co.uk/index.htm)

[Big Shed]

I expect the old hands know this but it's said that a round file is only good for 4-6 sharpenings. The outside of the cutters are supposed to be chrome which is hard on the files.



That's why Stihl (for one) sell them in packets of 3, although I would say 4-6 sharpenings is a little on the pessimistic side.

I generally get one fire wood season out of mine, but if I do a lot of cutting in the forest (and hit the dirt:oo:) I go through them a bit quicker.

That is also the reason I rotate my 4 chains and when I come home I sharpen the ones I used for next trip.

Thanks for the links BTW Ern:2tsup:

[rsser]

Pleasure Fred.

btw, anyone know where I can source a manual clamp-on guide?

Tried two local CS places; they had nothing between a file fitted with a right angle plate and a megabucks electric machine.

[Big Shed]

btw, anyone know where I can source a manual clamp-on guide?

Tried two local CS places; they had nothing between a file fitted with a right angle plate and a megabucks electric machine.


I use the Stihl guide that clamps on the file, I find it is all I need to keep on track. Stihl sell a kit (got mine thrown in with the CS) that has a file, the guide that clamps on the round file, a height gauge (Bazza showed a picture earlier in the thread) and a flat file.

My SIL has a clamp on the bar type arrangement, but I don't think it is needed.

[rsser]

Hmm .. I've been using the same simple setup on the electric chainsaw and not getting brilliant results ... may need higher magnification glasses :(

[Barry_White]

I expect the old hands know this but it's said that a round file is only good for 4-6 sharpenings.

I believe that when a file will not cut you will know. The current file I am using has been in the sharpener for two years and is still cutting ok. I have also had files that have only lasted a half a dozen times. They vary in the time they will last. I buy my files from a local Rural supplies store who specialize in chainsaws and equipment and only use Oregon branded files.

[Barry_White]

Pleasure Fred.

btw, anyone know where I can source a manual clamp-on guide?

Tried two local CS places; they had nothing between a file fitted with a right angle plate and a megabucks electric machine.

Ern

Here is one on Ebay has three days to go.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FILING-TOOL-for-Chainsaws-NEW_W0QQitemZ220163511899QQihZ012QQcategoryZ42227QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Gigitt]

When I was a lot younger, Dad showed me how to sharpen the chain in a vice manually... now that I have had to use the chainsaw, I stuggled a few times with his (and everyone elses) standard horizontal chain sharpening method.

The problem is that Right handed people are weak from the left side so the reverse angle used for hand sharpening is going to have less edge removed/sharpened and so a chain will pull when cutting, and visa versa for Left handed people.

Here is a simple method for sharpening the chain that is so easy you will harpen the chain 2 times faster and with much better tooth accuracy.

Sharpen the chain vertically away from you rather than accoss your body horizontally in a vice.

I set the top part of the bar in a ply board with a slip cut in. The board sort of stops the teeth from running around the bar. Now the chainsaw and board form a triangular raised rig. I set it up either on the bench or on while kneling on the ground in the field. I face the bar away from me and file the tooth away from my body.

You have better control of the file and guide and also you can do 4-5 teeth (with an 18in bar length) before lifting the tip of the bar up slightly in the slot and pulling more teeth down around the bar. As I do each tooth I 'paint' it with the red permanent marker.
I sharpen one facing set of teeth then the other.

What I have found is that this vertical method of sharpening allows:
1) more even control of file pressure fom either side as you push the file away and through the tooth.
2) it's easier to concentrate on angles as you are now not concentrating on file pressure as much
3) file more teeth per min
4) the board semi locks the chain in place so it does not try and run on the bar when you file

You can make this vertical sharpening 'rig' a bit more fancy by attaching a base plate to it so the chainsaw trigger handle has somewhere to sit in a more fixed position.

I also suggest stocking up on chainsaw chains at you local Ag show.
Motor Mecca at this years AgQuip was selling standard length chains at 4 for $100... I got them to sell me 2 chains for $50 as I only bought 2 chains from them a couple of months ago for $40 each!

[Barry_White]

I also suggest stocking up on chainsaw chains at you local Ag show.
Motor Mecca at this years AgQuip was selling standard length chains at 4 for $100... I got them to sell me 2 chains for $50 as I only bought 2 chains from them a couple of months ago for $40 each!

Welcome to the forum Gigitt.

Your obviously getting ripped off on your chains because the last chain I bought I paid less than $25.00 for it from my local rural store co-op who make up their Oregon chains from bulk.

A picture of how you sharpen your chains would be interesting to see also.

[soundman]

I sharpen my chains in a vice where possible, I always sharpen right handed, stroking toward the outside of the chain and only do one side then either turn the machine arround or walk around the other side.

cheers

[MICKYG]

Hi all

This has been an interesting thread as we have bought an electric chain sharpener

for son in law for xmas. He has a chainsaw and we thought this may be a useful item, and appears are great to straighten up the chain when they become useless.

Regards Mike

[Gigitt]

I just knocked this picture up for you all to see

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd246/gigitt/Chainsaw/Veritcal-Chainsaw-Sharpening.gif

I just have a old ply board with a slit in it for the bar which I use on the bench.
The board pushes up against storage cans on the bench and the base of the chansaw handle sits against a large angle iron I have over the front edge of the bench. When in the field I just use the ground or against a sawn log.

You can also frame it so that it is more sturdier and to make it portable use detachable supports and base.

I my defence for chain pricing... cheap chain in Sydney costs the same.
The chain I got was Shtil oilomatic Semi Chisel.

[R W]

The problem is that Right handed people are weak from the left side so the reverse angle used for hand sharpening is going to have less edge removed/sharpened and so a chain will pull when cutting, and visa versa for Left handed people.

Very True.
Have often noticed chains that have been sharpened to much to one side, hope to build one of your jigs in the future.

[barnsey]

Cack hander here and always wind up with a angle cut saw! :o

Going to a jig electric grinder and will change my hand regime to get better balance in the field. A mate who does this for a living uses a jig and his chains are a pleasure so am following his lead.:D

[newjon]

I have tried all the Different Sharpeners over the Years.I own a Proper Bench Mount Sharpener, It burns the blade and takes to much off. I have a Dremel type unit but was not impressed with it. For the Past 2 Years I have been using File and a Little Jig that Sits over the Bar. It has a roller on each side to stop the file going to low. It costs about $20.00 and is made by Husqvarna. If you are interested I can work out how to put a photo up.

[Halfdays]

Be careful with those jigs. Each brand of chain is a little different in dimesions. They will not work on Stihl chain unless you modify the depth of the gauge slots.

[danielhobby]

what ive done is purchased two 240v grinders and mounted one at each end of a piece of 90 x45 pine,i then mount this piece of timber in a vice,one grinder is set for left teeth and all left teeth are done then swap chain to right tooth set grinder and do right teeth.benefits are 1.the angle is not changed from side to side so tooth metal loss is very minimal.2the machine duty cycles are low so having two machines keeps them cooler.3the backstop on each machine once set does not have to be adjusted as often and the spring in the frame of the grinder allows the sharpen to happen with the slightest of pressure.it all works very well and i reckon the teeth are often sharper and last longer then when the chain is brand new,i think the grit size on the wheel is smaller and there fore a finer sharpen with a more polished cutting face eventuates.cheers danny.

[Exador]

Just a quick comment on grinders. I have an Oregon unit and I use it extensively. The problem with "burning" or bluing and hence softening of the teeth is a real one, but it can be addressed in 2 ways. The first is to take a small bite, minimise the time the grinder is in contact with each tooth and do as many passes as necessary, adjusting each time, which is the method I use. As I don't keep running a blunt chain if I can help it, this usually means 2 passes at most.

the other alternative, which some of the loppers I know are using is to purchase a diamond grinding disk, which doesn't tend to create the same friction heating as the aluminium oxide ones. They're not cheap though, which is why I haven't taken the plunge.

[dai sensei]

I have an Oregon lookalike and Exador is right, very small passes avoids the blue, but you should always only take the absolute minimum to sharpen your chain.

[barnsey]

Have watched this for a while again and I'd offer the following in comment:

I always believed that having served an electro-mechanical apprenticeship, I had the skills to hand sharpen saw chain and all my circular saw blades. One gains a feel for filing after sizing and squaring steel blocks to +/- 10 thou. Always done my chains by hand in the field or the workshop with results I was not unhappy with although every so often I would get a result that wanted to cut like a french curve.

Now having used a 4 axis 240V electric saw chain sharpener I can report that I'm an idiot for not having used one earlier :B.

You can wind up with excess material removal with a dremel because you are still relying on your individual ability to hand control all the angles required and no control over tooth length. Hand sharpening has the same weakness. The grinder removes that.

Electric grinders remove too much material and can burn the teeth! NO! The operator of the tool can cause that NOT the grinder. If that is the problem you probably have similar problems sharpening a chisel or plane blade on a grinder. Softly, softly monkey - when you set up with a grinding machine you can find the shortest tooth and set the grind position - any longer teeth will be obvious as you start to grind - touch it and continue on - keep going gently til every tooth remaining cool gets to a point where there is no significant grind on the measured grind. If you don't try and grind every tooth to size on every pass then you won't have a problem.

Love the grinder and I still will file in the field but pass a poorly performing chain across the grinder at the end of the day and know that I've got reliable sharp chain to fit at any time.

My 2c worth.

Jamie

[Exador]

Absolutely spot on, Jamie.

[itsposs]

where do I get one of them sharpeners Jamie ?.

[barnsey]

Got mine from Big Boyz Toyz.

I have no affilliations or interests just responding to a direct question. There may well be other suppliers and/or prices - I bought on my own preferences which may not be the same as yours.

Jamie:2tsup:

[dai sensei]

.... 4 axis ...

:?

[barnsey]

Yeah thought that too!
Means you can adjust settings in 4 aspects.


Cutter angle
Rake
Chain cutter length
Depth of cut including raker height

Not 4 planes really but all are relevant in the scheme of things.

Jamie

[BobL]

Yeah thought that too!
Means you can adjust settings in 4 aspects.


Cutter angle
Rake
Chain cutter length
Depth of cut including raker height

Not 4 planes really but all are relevant in the scheme of things.

Jamie

Two are rotations and two are displacements.

I'm a die hard hand filing fan (I do use a file guide) mainly because I can touch up on the mill faster than I can swap out chains and if I had to swap chains I'd need about a dozen chains for each bar. I do use a grinder to get damaged chains back into shape and I used to grind them into shape at the end of the day but the more I file the better I get and find myself rarely use a grinder.

[rsser]

Yeah, it's a perennial so time for another run.

I got a jig, knock off of the Oregon, to mount on the bar but there's lots of slop and the results are variable.

At least one of you appears to have bought a powered grinder, a copy of an Oregon it seems, from Biggerboyztoyz. eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380369959912?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2648#ht_7253wt_995)

Any comments on this or similar from those who've used one would be welcome.

I understand the risk of taking too much off and of bluing the teeth due to being hamfisted and there appears to be ways of avoiding this.

The CS only gets occasional but intensive use to cut up and block down logs for bowl blanks; there's a spare chain so downtime is not an issue. That ebay unit would pay for itself in 10 sharpenings that I would otherwise get the local mower place to do. The tech has to be similar but he has a diamond wheel.

[Krunchie]

If you are going to use a grinder get the proper oregon grinder or the stihl grinder but brace yourself cos their not cheap if you arnt going to use them heaps then again if you are going to get a cheap one and wreak good chains then that aint cheap either.

I do have one of the tachomech chain grinders and they leave alot to be desired but as bobl said I only use mine to "fix" chains not to make them sharp

I love hand filing chains and never get tired or bored of it especially when im getting paid to do it and do it properly.

Cheers Bob

[Gigitt]

Saw this in a LawnMower Shop last week and thought Chainsaw sharpener for Dummies ....

PowerShrap
PowerSharp sharpens chain on the saw, on the job, in seconds (http://www.powersharp.com/default_flash.asp)

Anybody used it like to comment on it?

[BobL]

It's been around in the US for some time and was tested and discussed on the arboriste site.

The viewpoints provided indicated that it did indeed produce cutter profiles that cut reasonably fast but not as fast as what could be obtained by other forms of sharpening. The setup would be useful for users who did not use a chainsaw that often and did not have or did not want to develop chain sharpening skills.

Drawbacks include
1) Cost. A new sharpening stone is required to be used with every new chain although this has to be offset against the cost of files. Also see point 6)

2) If you ding several cutters on a bit-o-metal or a rock the damaged cutters cannot be replaced with new cutters and then sharpened to match the others, doing so will stuff the stone and a new stone will be needed. The cutters also cannot be manual ground down.

3) If you run two chains you need to make sure you sharpen with the right stone or you will bugger the chain and stone

4) Users might be tempted to sharpen conventional chains with this setup and bugger both the chain and stone.

5) This is subtle but important for those that want fastest cutting speeds. The raker setting is fixed and cannot be varied to get the chain to bite more wood as would be possible by bigger power heads.

6) the recommended number of time the chain can be sharpened is 5 to 15 times. This actually pretty miserable since it means the chain can only be touched up at most 15 times although it can probably bet done a few more times that this. To reduce the load on the powerhead when cutting Aussie hardwoods it makes sense to touch up a chain after every tank of mix. Even one or two swipes of a file to de-glint the cutters makes a big difference when cutting. This enables chains to be touched many dozens of times during its life time. A light touch up cannot be done with this device as even a one second application removes much more metal from the cutters than 2 swipes of a file.