Home Made Lathe - Can anyone turn a headstock spindle for me?

[wands]

I need a spindle machined, the specs are taken from the diagram attached, the only difference will be that it needs to accomodate a five step pully in the middle of it instead of what is shown in the diagram (ie what has the v-belt grooves and the indexing holes).

I got the diaram from an article by Jerry Blanchard, out of a book, The Best Of Fine Woodworking, Lathes and Turning Techniques, 1991 by Tauton Press.

"...
I made the headstock spindle from a 16-in. (mine will need to be longer to accomadate the 5-step pulley) piece of 2&3/8-in.-dia., seamless mechanical tubing with an inside diameter of 7/8-in.
...
I reamed a #3 Morse taper in each end to hold centres,
..."

Naturally I will need to pay for this, thus I need to know
- Roughly how much would it cost for the machining?
- Where would I buy seamless tubing for the spindle from?
- He mentions "Fanfir self-aligning 2&3/16-in. ball-bearing pillow blocks", any ideas as to what may be substituted for these as I can't find any Googling?

I will likely make the headstock similar to the one attached. I have purchased a broken MC1100 for the bed and will add 100mm to the tailstock, making the swing 600mm (maybe a little more)

I have also already purchased a 2hp motor, but it has a short drive shaft (correct me as I know not the right terminology and am making this up as I go along), and I need to attach a four step pulley to it, any ideas as to how I would achieve this would be very much appreciated. I plan it to be 16 speed, and will model it on the pulley setup of my drill press - it has three step pulleys, one on the motor (4-step), one on the spindle (5-step) and one in the middle (5-step).

Any other ideas pointers would be very much appreciated.

Cheers, Steve

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

G'day mate,

I can't help with making one, but I thought the blokes in the Metalworking section would probably have more info so I took the liberty of reposting this msg. (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=574338#post574338) in there for you...

[Jim Carroll]

Is there any reason why you want 3mt tapers
2mt is the standard in woodturning, easier for getting accessories.
What thread are you going to make the spindle.
30 x 3.5mm is the norm, again easy to get off the shelf accessories.

Eliminate all the belt changing and put a 2 step pulley on the drive shaft to a variable speed motor with a 2 step pulley on it. Main step for normal turning and second step for heavier bowl turning where you want more torque and not speed.

[BernieP]

G'Day Steve

Can't help with spindle but if you contact this mob in the states they may have a local agent for your pillow blocks http://www.graphalloy.com/html/pillow_block_.html

Cheers
Bernie

[hughie]

Steve,
My ten cents worth. :U

With the pulley centrally located between the bearings it will be a pain to change belts when the time comes and that time will come long before you need to change any bearings.



I reamed a #3 Morse taper in each end to hold centres,



As Jim out lined M2 is standard, you will need to buy a 2-3 Morse taper sleeve in order to fit standard accessories. Also if its reamed it will be highly unlikely it will run true, normally the tapers are machined on a lathe or ground for accuracy on a specialist grinder.




- Where would I buy seamless tubing for the spindle from?


What you will need to look for is "Hollow bar" or "heavy wall tube." Smorgons steel, Blue steel etc have their catalogues on the net in down load able pdf files. Mild steel will be OK, any alloy steels will set you back more $ and will not necessarily give a greater benefit.





- "Fanfir self-aligning 2&3/16-in. ball-bearing pillow blocks", \


Fanfir is a trade name like NKN Fafnir, SKF etc. Any local bearing out let will be able to help you. ie CBC Bearings, Associated bearing, SKF etc. If you tell them the final shaft dia they will do the rest for you. Expect to pay around $100-140 depending on the size and type of bearing you require.

Plummer blocks are the cheapest way to do it, anything else will require more machining. Also they are very easy to maintain and replace.
Consider having a larger bearing at the chuck end of the headstock as this will take the brunt of the action and a smaller one at the other end. It Will also lessen the cost of bearings.

http://www.motive-traction.com.au/cgi-bin/engine.pl?Page=page.html&Rec=151

http://www.conbear.com.au/homepage.htm

When you set up the headstock bearings for the final time. Only lock the bearing directly behind the chuck. The other end is lightly nipped, this is to allow expansion of the shaft as it works. If this is not done the expansion will rapidly trash your bearings ie in days with constant use.



I plan it to be 16 speed,


Spend some time on this design, as to allow quick and efficient speed changes. I considered this on my one. But find the triple pulley set up a pain in the butt.:C :~ Give some thought to Jim's idea of two speed with variable speed controller on the motor.

Machining costs vary a lot. But at a guess, considering you will need a key way on the shaft as well as the pulleys etc perhaps around $200-250, steel tube $50.
The headstock pulley will slide on the shaft with a key way for drive and held in place with one possibly two grub screws. Then just follow your drill set up. Likewise a key and key way is required for the motor.
If your motor shaft is to short, this will cause a lot more over hang than is normal. Ideally you would have the pulley fully located on the shaft. Try not to go lower than 75%. When it less that normal the pulley tends to work its way off no matter how tight its held. ..... can be very exciting :o
:U

[Retromill]

OK fellars I'll be the first one to , hot insert into the kill zone.
Pun very much intended!
Looked at your spindle drawing and I dont think many will have a lathe big enough for the job .
Spindle bore of the lathe would have to be 62 mm min. to do it the easy way.
Could be turned between centres and then ream the MT on the steady rest. Slow and require a lot of setting up .
The drawing says the spindle ( your spindle) has a 7/8 ID. that is .875.
A no 3 MT is --- large end .938 , small end .778 .
So you can see that the bore is already too large for a full MT3 but maybe long enough for short turning centres ?
The only practical way I can see is someone close to where you live would have to put thier hand up and have the right lathe and tooling.
A good spindle would also need to be ground to final size but turning alone would be ok.
You need to improve the drawing with thread types and pitch more detail , steel type etc.
One of the great conundrums of life is that to make a lathe you need to buy a lathe and once youv'e used it , you dont need it.
In all honesty mate I think you would be better off trying to buy a professionally made lathe that suits your purpose . Building one will end up costing just as much in the long run.
Sorry I can't offer to make it for you as my lathe would not handle it and I dont have a 3MT reamer.
Now where the hell is that extraction chopper.

[Fossil]

Good advice from retromill.

Any decent machine shop should be able to make that up for around $200.00-$250.00
I know it sounds a lot of money, but when you consider the price of decent steel.. 1040 or 1045, and then consider setup, machining of spindle and rings, and cost of equipment considerations, it is actually cheap.


The pillow blocks and bearings to suit should be readilly available from any transmission/bearing supply shop. There are several where I live, but that is a long way from you. They will set you back approx $60.00.

Fossil

[joe greiner]

Mis-spelling "fafnir" as "fanfir" will defeat Google; try "fafnir" instead.

Regarding belt changing, a segmented belt, e.g. Grizzly "Power Twist" (tm) can be changed without dismantling the headstock. Even so, if you weld some positioning blocks on the headstock towers, there's only four bolts to remove for a belt change, and the blocks will assure accurate re-attachment. The photo on the second page of the article shows a bowl lathe that he made with the pulley outboard.

The article is silent about the threads. Since both the shaft and the rings are purpose-made, they could be any convenient and appropriate system. According to Machinery's Handbook (24th ed.), there's no UNF for 2 3/16-in OD. Closest is 2 3/16-16 UNS. A candidate metric equivalent could be 55x1.5.

Joe

[pipeclay]

very cheap if you can get someone to make it for that price,even on a cnc youd still be looking at around 3 to 4 hrs,and maybe $500+,why do you need the morse tapers,could you get away with a mounting plate and 3 jaw or 4 and turn a centre,i would think to make that on a manual machine you would be looking at 12 to 16 hrs if not more,is there any real reason why your shafting has to be that dia,if you were to modify your design slightly to accomadate the machine limitations of most people in this forum im sure you would find someone prepared to have a go,the cost of the steel is the cheapest outlay,just get your speks for bearing and pulley so they have something to work to.

[Retromill]

Have seen a good wood lathe on Evil bay. A solid Hyco cast iron gap bed model , with big disk sander & table 240v motor , starting price $800. buy this and do it up a bit.
Would be miles better than any home made job.
Ebay item number is :--- 200145594975

[pipeclay]

in regards to your thread you can have it any size od you like as long as tpi or pitch is correct

[scooter]

Some of the above posts have been moved from a thread that was running concurrently in the Metalworking forum.


Cheers....................Sean

[wands]

Thanks to all your help and replies, very much appreciated and by all means please keep 'em coming.

Skew: Cheers, I had thought of posting there, but thought there may be a few wood turners who also have a metal lathe.

Jim: I did not have my heart set on a 3MT, so as you are telling me that a 2MT is more common, then that is what I will go for.
If it is the most common then I will go for 30 x 3.5 thread on the spindle.
If I could afford the variable speed motor, that is what I'd go for, but I can't at this point.

Bernie: Will check them out.

Hughie: I was thinking of those link belts - seem to remember seeing them in an article on tuning up a table saw.
Will look for some hollow bar, Fossil mentions 1040 or 1045, so will investigate further.
Looks/sounds like I need to do more research on the bearings and the setting up of them.
I haven't quite nutted out how I will set up the pulley system. Am thinking of using an old drill to push the motor up, the middle pulley will then swing up, thus losening the tension, allowing for a change.
I may need to change the motor for one with a longer shaft, as I think I'd be lucky to fit two pulley wheels on the one I have.

Retromill: Jim Carroll has steered me to a 2MT, for more compatibility. Will have more exacting details, as I know them. I'd love to buy a larger one outright, but a high outlay in one hit is harder to justify to the Mrs, besides it is easier to buy a heap of things slowly.

Fossil: Agreed, if I can get it done for $200 to $250 +or- I'd be very happy. I take it you are saying that I should go for 1040 or 1045 steel. Will be investigating the bearings some more - was expecting to pay up to around $120 each - so I'll see how I go.

Joe: Amazing how a letter out of place can stuff you around, as I actually got a few hits with the miss-spelling and assumed they must have gone out of business a few years ago. It's a shame that the shot of the bowl lathe is not a side on profile - no matter how I turn the page I just can see it from side on. I will/may have the headstock bolted on, thus yes only a few bolts to change the belts - besides how many times a day do you change the belts - I know I have never changed the ones in my drill-press - nor the ones in our cars for years. Oh well at least it is not going to be too hard to remove them. I will go for 30 x 3.5 thread as mentioned by Jim, if it is the most common.

pipeclay: I haven't set my dimensions etc in concrete, but I do plan to place some hefty mallee roots on it, do some big pots, so if I could get away with something smaller then I am all ears. Maybe I need to bounce all my ideas of an engineer. I have no idea as to how long it may take or what the cost will end up being, hence my questions.

Retromill: As mentioned, I can't get away with a big outlay in one hit, thus will build it up over time. It may cost me more in the long run - but the thrill is also in the building it myself - like fly fishing it is just so much better catching trout with flies I've tied myself - cost more, takes longer, but I have more fun.

pipemill: I need to learn a bit because to me - tpi sounds like pressure for your car tyres and a pitch will be rolled out in summer.
By the way tpi: threads per inch and pitch: degree of deviation from a horizontal plane

Scooter: Cheers, I will be checking the other post

Again thanks one and all for you help and inputs, I will post again once I have the details more finalised.

Cheers, Steve :)

[Retromill]

Did not appreciate the moving around of other peoples posts.
Thread was screwed up as a result.
If a poster wants two threads running at the same time then that is his buisness and choice .

[Fossil]

I payed around the $250.00 mark for a spindle for my table saw a few years back. That was why I gave that figure as an estimate.

I make all sorts of machines and gizmos in my spare time. I have bought plenty of pillow blocks over the years, and I know they are available with a decent bearing for the price I quoted.

I would go for 1040 or 1045 because you will end up with a better spindle. The steel isn't cheap, but it will form less than 10% of cost of completed article. 1045 will give you very nice hard and clean morse tapers, which is a serious consideration, given the final use of the artical you propose.
As always.... Just my opinion. :)

[Chris Parks]

Steve, are you doing this for cost reasons or the challenge?

[Calm]

I need a spindle machined, the specs are taken from the diagram attached, Steve

Hi Steve

I have a good freind who could give you advice on this subject and may be able to assist. This would be in his feild of expertise.

I will PM you with his email address, then you can follow him up yourself. I will mention this to him when i next am talking to him.

[wands]

Fossil: Cheers, correct me if I am wrong, I take it that 1045 would be better than 1040, simply because of the higher content of carbon? Or is it the other way round?

Mini: Yes and no. I want the biggest turning capacity and can't afford a vicmarc or stubby in one hit, thus spending over a longer period just seems to be cheaper to the better half. And besides, who doesn't like a challenge?

Calm: Thanks, I will get an email off to your friend, once I finalise the dimensions etc. I am finding it difficult to source stepped pulley cones. I want to allow for five step pulley on the headstock, but not sure how much space is required etc. Besides, the motor I have only has a short drive shaft and have been advised that the pulley should not have 25% of it's body overhanging the drive shaft. Thus I need to find out if I can extend the drive shaft or will I need a motor with a longer drive shaft??

With regards to stepped pulleys, does anyone know if these are available off the shelf, or is it something else I will need to have machined?

Cheers, Steve

[TTIT]

With regards to stepped pulleys, does anyone know if these are available off the shelf, or is it something else I will need to have machined?
Saw 5-step pulleys on the shelf in an engineering supplies place in Rockhampton once about 5 or 6 years ago - always regretted not grabbing them - could'a come in handy one day!:; My old man cast his own 8-step jobs for his twist-lathe years ago - lotta work!

[gatiep]

I havn't read the whole thread. What about buying a 2 MT spindle from someone like Carba-tec or whoever you choose. They have replacements for their machines.

[hughie]

Steve, Here's a couple of links where you can get stepped pulleys

Both companies are nation wide
http://www.bsc.com.au/ not sure if they have 5 step tho'


Blackwoods have 5 step puilleys in either Ali or cast iron, they will bore and key to your requirements.

5 Step pulleys dimensions:-
dias 6.0", 5.25", 4.5", 3.75", 3.0" and will bore out in a range of .5" to 1.25" or metric equivilent

http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/Default.aspx

This one will give all your speed calcs on line as well as belt length required.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/pulleybeltcalc.html

[wands]

TTIT: If only we grabbed, kept etc everything we saw and thought "Now that might come in handy one day". I reckon there wouldn't be a shed big enough to store it all. I am sure if you went back they'd say "Gee you know what, I only sold them last week, I had 'em sitting in here for years..."

gatiep: Thanks, yeah it has been mentioned and thus have changed to wanting it to have a 2MT. Want one a little bigger than the mass produced ones, besides, they are designed to fit on a lathe with a max of 200mm above bed, but I want 300-350mm, thus want to cater for the extra weight I intend to put on it.

Hughie: As always your help and advise is well measured and much appreciated. I spent some time looking for the stepped pulleys, but came up short, I suspect due to the fact I don't understand the jargon. It's a shame the Blackwood's catalogue is scanned in, as such I can't do a search on it. But I am sure I'll find them eventually.

Thanks again, Steve

[hughie]

As always your help and advise is well measured and much appreciated. I spent some time looking for the stepped pulleys, but came up short, I suspect due to the fact I don't understand the jargon. It's a shame the Blackwood's catalogue is scanned in, as such I can't do a search on it. But I am sure I'll find them eventually.

Steve, The Blackwoods stepped pulleys arnt in the catalogue you will need to ring them. In the past few years they have rationalised their parts listing and such thing are now a 'buy in'
The Blackwoods catalogue is a pain, the search engine is IMHO well nigh useless, you will get more sense over the phone.

[joe greiner]

No reason why you can't turn your stepped pulleys in timber. Use hardwood, and make the thin parts (flanges) about three times as thick as they would be in steel. At the hubs, excavate (Dremel handy for this) a chamber to hold a T-nut or wing nut, and epoxy in place for grub screws; drill a clearance hole radially for the screw. This dodge works best with a jack shaft holding a similar stepped pulley, driven by the motor with a single pulley, as the motor shaft is likely too short for direct mounting.

Joe