Opinion on method?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've an idea for an item to enter into a comp, but I'm not sure about the best method.

Basically, it'll be a decanter type affair with the body along similar lines to this:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=55308&stc=1&d=1189580135
(Only a rough sketch: size, form and proportion is all still up in the air.)

Now I'm fully aware that it'd be more impressive (esp. to the judges :rolleyes:) it 'was turned as a true hollow-form, hollowing solely through neck. However, I don't want to bore the neck any more than 15mm wide... and given my current tooling this'd leave me with rather thick walls.

Ideally I want it to be lightweight, very thin-walled. Much lighter than the equivalent item in glass. So, my reasoning is to maybe turn the foot as though 'twas going to be a friction fit lid, (thus matching the grain) hollow out from the bottom end and then glue the foot back in.

Whichever way I go, I'll be pouring hot beeswax in from the top and giving it a good ol' swirl around to seal the innards as I'm hoping it'll be a user afterwards. :)

Naturally, if I hollow from the bottom it can't be entered in the hollow form category, but I think that, properly done, this won't make any difference as to final scoring? Any-one with experience in comp's (judging or otherwise) got any thoughts on this?

[rsser]

'Spect you know this, but ain't the standard fudge method for this kind of vessel to shape the outside, with a bead at the neck, part off at the bead to give you a wider aperture, complete the hollowing and then glue the neck back on.

Of course, it would be difficult with a wood artist who could only hold tools in their mouth.

[TTIT]

'Spect you know this, but ain't the standard fudge method for this kind of vessel to shape the outside, with a bead at the neck, part off at the bead to give you a wider aperture, complete the hollowing and then glue the neck back on.

Of course, it would be difficult with a wood artist who could only hold tools in their mouth.Damn - too slow again!:C Was going to suggest that after reading an article on a guy turning big egg forms using a similar technique. :shrug:

[rsser]

Great minds Vern!

Or maybe just retentive ones ...

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Aye, I'd thought of that but I'd like the outside form to be an unbroken curve, as it'll have... "those fancy S-shaped handles" :rolleyes: ...on each side.

As an aside: what's the proper name for those handles? I know there is one, just never can remember it. :-

[thefixer]

Aye, I'd thought of that but I'd like the outside form to be an unbroken curve, as it'll have... "those fancy S-shaped handles" :rolleyes: ...on each side.

As an aside: what's the proper name for those handles? I know there is one, just never can remember it. :-


ogee?

[Frank&Earnest]

Ansa. pl.ansae.

ETA: OK, ogee shaped ansae, then...:)

[hughie]

[Now I'm fully aware that it'd be more impressive (esp. to the judges :rolleyes:) it 'was turned as a true hollow-form, hollowing solely through neck. However, I don't want to bore the neck any more than 15mm wide... and given my current tooling this'd leave me with rather thick walls.


Skew not as difficult perhaps as it first appears. A simple adjustment to your tooling. :U

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=434355#post434355

This would come some where near to assisting along with OGYT laser set up you could produce the thickness you require.

just a thought :2tsup:

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Sadly, with my metal fabrication skills the date of entry would be well past before I've finished building the tooling... although I've been conscientiously buliding up a collection of saved posts for tools that I do want to build one day. :D

ie. I'll get there, just not yet.


As for the handle style, I don't think 'tis ogee. That I would've remembered. :) It may be a 'right' answer but isn't the term I'm looking for. :shrug: I think I'll stick to those "fancy S-shaped" or "treble clef style" handles for the meantime.

[hughie]

Skew,

have alook at this, some thing along these lines would ,I think come real close to your needs. Its an easy build, bend, weld, glue the handle.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Skew,

have alook at this, some thing along these lines would ,I think come real close to your needs. Its an easy build, bend, weld, glue the handle.

Thanks Hughie, that's what I thought you meant but best to be sure than sorry, eh? :)

FWIW, here's a screenshot of the outside curve of the form I have plotted. The grid is 5cm, for reference. As you can see, the narrowest part of the neck is 21mm which means an extremely constrained internal bore. 13mm maximum if I can get a constant 4mm wall thickness. :~

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=55396&stc=1&d=1189580329

The pic doesn't show handles, inside curve, stopper or foot for sake of simplicity. Of course, I could show you what the complete piece is supposed to look like, but then I'd be giving you ammo to use against me when the final product comes out looking completely different... :B

[TTIT]

........... The pic doesn't show handles, inside curve, stopper or foot for sake of simplicity. Of course, I could show you what the complete piece is supposed to look like, but then I'd be giving you ammo to use against me when the final product comes out looking completely different... :BYou haven't mentioned what timber you're using Skew!? Might be able to help out with something special :shrug:

[hughie]

The pic doesn't show handles, inside curve, stopper or foot for sake of simplicity. Of course, I could show you what the complete piece is supposed to look like, but then I'd be giving you ammo to use against me when the final product comes out looking completely different


no worries, this 'l be enough to plot a basic bar curve. Hmm as Vern says your gonna need some stable dense timber to pull this one off. :2tsup: Wall thickness constant wont be a problem.

[powderpost]

Skew,
I did this hollow form a while back. It is 180mm high and 180mm diameter. The opening is 40mm. This one was done with the Sorby Stewart system out of brown pine. The wall thickness is 3/16". The outside was turned first and then the inside. I used a series of wall gauges made from 8# wire bent to a very flat "C" shape to measure the wall thickness. The Stewart system worked very well, but got a bit hairy after four hours concentrating on the job. It was glue chucked to a waste block on a face plate.
Jim

[hughie]

Jim,

Nice one :2tsup: Skew is gonna take his down to 4mm...likes living dangerously... or challenge addicted..:U:U

[ubeaut]

As a 4 time judge of the National Woodturing Exhibition and a number of others, I don't think I can ever recalling reading in the rules of an exhibition or competition that a hollow form must not have been turned through a secret opening.

I'd be cutting the bottom off and doing it that way to get the thinnest most even wall thickness possible, without exploding the thing.

A hollow vessel is a hollow vessel whether it's been turned from one piece of wood through one opening 1 piece of wood with a secret opening or from 100 pieces of wood with half a dozen openings. If it's hollow it's hollow no matter how it got that way.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You haven't mentioned what timber you're using Skew!? Might be able to help out with something special :shrug:

In all honesty, I haven't thought that far ahead! :-

I've a sneaking feeling that it's not going to make it into the local show... maybe I'll turn just another goblet for that. :p I've spent so long actually designing the thing and trying to work out the best turning methods (which will mean some major retooling) that it's taken on a life of it's own and looks like becoming my next big project.

If it turns out it can always be my entry in next year's Aus Woodturning Exhibition instead. Although that might cause problems with my trying to drop back into "novice" class... if I manage to pull it off. :rolleyes:


down to 4mm...likes living dangerously... or challenge addicted..:U

Both of the above, plus a healthy dose of insanity, methinks. This is really going to tax both the supply of duct-tape and the meagre skills I have at my disposal.

I'll be very pleased if mine turns out anything like yours, Jim. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure 'twas one of your pieces that started this whole mass of ideas congealing in my head - so it's all your fault! :~


I don't think I can ever recalling reading in the rules of an exhibition or competition that a hollow form must not have been turned through a secret opening.

I'd be cutting the bottom off and doing it that way to get the thinnest most even wall thickness possible, without exploding the thing.

A hollow vessel is a hollow vessel whether it's been turned from one piece of wood through one opening 1 piece of wood with a secret opening or from 100 pieces of wood with half a dozen openings. If it's hollow it's hollow no matter how it got that way.

Thanks Neil. That's greatly eased my mind. :2tsup:

So, as things currently stand, it looks like I'll be making two of them! The first hollowed from the bottom for the local show, and the second from the top. It'll also give me a chance to use the first one as a prototype to iron out any problems with the handles and overall shape.

I need to at least have a try at the second one, even if only to stop the ideas from running around in my head... the tools I'll need to add to my rack along the way will be a nice bonus, of course. :innocent:

[China]

Skew I can't access your pics, keep getting reqest to log in again, is this how it should be or is there a problem

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You too?

I think it may be something to do with the forum updates. I can see all thumbnails fine, but can't see any embedded links unless I log in (again) first.

As it's not just me, I'll post a note in the "forum update thread..."

[China]

Thanks Skew I never know if it's just me not being a comuptor wizz

[mick61]

G`day Ubeaut is right there is no rule against hollowing from the bottom the rule relates to the size of the opening.So you can hollow from top and bottom but if you can hide the bottom entry even better but they are very picky when checking that the piece fits the criteria.Just the slightest hint of glue will give you away.Goodluck Mick:D

[Gil Jones]

It just occurred to me that I can post Word files here, so here goes a try.
No pics, but the data may be helpful.

[OGYT]

I'm lookin' forward to see'n the finished product, Skew.
The form is beautiful.