Port Barrel

[Wayne Blanch]

Hey all,

I have been asked if I would be able to turn a port barrel.

I have decided that the overall turning would not be too much of a problem as I thought that I would turn it in two halves and then glue it together.

Alternatively I suppose I could turn the outside and then try to hollow it using my hollowing tool but the problem here is that I would end up with a bung in the front or back of the barrel instead of on the top and I would not be able to hollow to the front (back?)of the barrel as the hollower will not work back toward itself. (I hope this is clear)

I should be able to find a small (preferably brass) tap for the barrel and I could make a stand easily enough.


The questions that I have are:

1. The only Oak that I have is She Oak, do you think that this would be suitable? If not what would be suitable?

2. What glue would be best to use? I should be able to get a pretty good tight seal when turning however the glue will still come into contact with the port.

3. Is there anything else that I have missed?

Thanks for the help
Regards
Wayne

[mick61]

G`day I would not use she oak it is not a true oak.
Mick:D

[Frank&Earnest]

Yep, it would likely give it a bad taste. Beech or a fruit tree could be a better idea. Also, wouldn't it be better to make it with staves, without glue? More difficult, I agree. Aquadhere PVA is supposed to be non-toxic AFAIK.

[theyoungster]

what if you make it in two pieces
the first being the walls and back or front then
the second being as a lid for it to sit inside the barrel on a lip
then add your tap etc
hopfully you understand me
bryce

[scooter]

Aquadhere PVA is supposed to be non-toxic AFAIK.


But not waterproof, so prob. not portproof :D


Needs to be inert once dry, & waterproof - not just water resistant. Polyurethane or epoxy would be the go I'd reckon. Check the MSDS for the glue or ring the mfr & speak to a chemist or tech for advice.


Cheers....................Sean

[Frank&Earnest]

But not waterproof, so prob. not portproof :D



Yep, I knew that. In my ignorance, though, I thougth that if the PVA is at the bottom of the groove in a t&g joint and the port swells slightly the internal surface ensuring a tight fit of the non glued inside shoulder, it would have taken care of



Needs to be inert once dry, & waterproof - not just water resistant.


because there is no stress to speak of.

Not so?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

A quick'n'easy way to make an "amateur" barrel is to make octagonal (or whatever - but octagonal ends make for easier angle calculation :shrug:) panels for the top'n'bottom, then make up some thick staves with rebates on the inside edges for the panels to sit in. If it's going to see use, I think I'd cut/fit splines from rebate to rebate, but no further. (I wouldn't want them to show on the end of the barrel. :wink:)

Dry fit everything to make a barrel "blank," use some wire as temporary retainers and mount the whole thing up for turning to traditional shape, moving the wire as/when necessary.

After turning, if you disassemble and lightly round over the outside edges of the staves with s/paper before final assembly it accentuates the joints and makes the end product look aged. After assembly, it can be either cooped or pegged to hold it all together permanently... I've also seen 'em turned with shallow grooves just in from each end that were wire-wrapped and soldered.

No glue involved.

[hughie]

Wayne,
This might be a tricky one as sealers are not used at all and by the look of it Oak is the only timber used. French being the most sort after then American.

Alot of the chemical sealants available will leech out to some extent.I have been looking myself for something along the same lines for awhile now and have not come up with any as yet. So I'll watch this thread with interest

http://www.woodturningsupplies.com.au/polishes-adhesives.html

http://www.oakin.com/smallbarrels.htm
http://www.barrelsbydesign.com.au/PORTKEG%20PAGE.htm

[Richard Findley]

Hi Wayne,

Titebond 3 is a PVA type glue (actually some sort of resin) that's big in the US and is easily available over here in the UK, not sure about down in Oz though. It's supposed to be ok for food prep such as work tops and chopping boards and I believe it's waterproof as well. Take a look here (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=29225&name=titebond&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0) for more info.

Hope this helps, good luck:2tsup:

Richard

[Hickory]

White Oak is the only answer and turning is not the way to go... Staves and correct Barrel construction is the method you want unless a small project is your goal.

[rsser]

The odd winery here in Vic used to offer small port barrels with cheap refills from their bulk stock.

This kind of storage is really only decorative as any half decent tawny should've been aged a bit in French or American Oak, and any additional oak-aging would be either hit and miss or over the top. I'd guess that oxidation might rear its ugly head as well.

[NeilS]

What Skew C said ... and use the real thing. Most gardenning supply outlets and some hardware stores sell used half wine barrels, well that's the case here in the Adelaide Hills (surrounded by wine regions). You could make a number of port barrels from a standard half barrel.

Neil

[Wayne Blanch]

Thanks peoples,
I guess that i will have to look at getting a hold of some Oak and then take it from there.

I like the method suggested by Skew so once I discover some Oak I will give that a try.

Once again thanks to everyone for all the help:2tsup:

Regards
Wayne

[Frank&Earnest]

Hi Wayne,

Titebond 3 is a PVA type glue (actually some sort of resin) that's big in the US and is easily available over here in the UK, not sure about down in Oz though. It's supposed to be ok for food prep such as work tops and chopping boards and I believe it's waterproof as well. Take a look here (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=29225&name=titebond&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0) for more info.

Hope this helps, good luck:2tsup:

Richard

Thanks for the suggestion Richard. I have looked at the link and found that it is waterproof, but could not find anything about food safe: did I miss it or did you have it from other sources? TIA
Frank

[echnidna]

Barrels are not glued.

[Frank&Earnest]

Barrels are not glued.

I think I was the first to say that:D

[Richard Findley]

Hi Frank,

My mistake:B, its Titebond 2 that is food safe:doh:, take a look here (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=22583&name=titebond&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0) for the info.

Cheers

Richard

[bpj1968]

I know it has been said, but use what teh real coopers make, oak. THe best place is old wine barrels. You can get these from most garden shops, but I would be more inlcined to find a winery that will sell you one, as they are only used for a few years and then discarded. Gettign it froma winery you have an idea how old they are and where they have been stored. Getting it form a nursery may have been sittign around for months with fertiliser.

THere is a port barrel maker in Echuca who does just the using old wine barrels. THe effect of the oak would probably be fairly minimal as the preceeding wine has already leeched out much of the "oak charecteristics."

The seal in real barrels is caused by the construction. The staves are pretty much straight and shaped to give a taper to each end. The staves are then assembled at one end to form the circle and th ring put on. It is then paced over a fire to assist the bending of the staves to meet at the other end. THis creates a farily tight seal, the wood swelling with wine finishes it off.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Just a thought on water- (or is that "port-") proofing: how would a cup of beeswax heated up and poured in through the bung to line the innards go?

I've done similar on some of my hollow turnings and it has worked well.. However I'm sure we're all aware that there are one or two minor technical differences between a Port Barrel and a... ahem... vase :- and I'm not a wine drinker so I've know idea how port goes with beeswax...

(And yes, I know that a "real" barrel is waterproofed by it's construction. I'm also aware that coopers are skilled craftsmen and I don't see much sense in Wayne's taking on an apprenticeship just to be able to satisfy one person's request... :wink::D)

[Frank&Earnest]

its Titebond 2 that is food safe.



Thanks Richard. Well, Waine, it looks that now that the big guns have all weighed in refining my one-liner:wink:, we are back to the essential point: knowing that if you wanted to do the real thing, you would need true oak and coopering skills, to do what you wanted to do you need a timber that does not taint the wine and a non-toxic waterproof PVA.

Next!...:)

[Wayne Blanch]

Once again Peoples thanks,

I think that the method of construction will depend on what type of wood I am able to lay my hands on.

Essentially the bloke that wants the barrel is trying to get it cheap as he is on a very tight budget. (On a pension.)

Thanks for all your input and help, when I get it done I will post a pic.

Regards
Wayne