Another Tenon Jig

[Barry_White]

These are some pictures of a Tenon Jig that I have made. The design came from a Time Life Book taken from the Woodsmith Series Custom Woodworking. Available from www.timelife.com.au
The books aren't cheap $32.95 + postage, but then very few woodworking books are cheap. The beauty of this series is there is some very good jigs, Cabinets and Tool Stand designs in them.

Only problem is they are all imperial measurements in them but if you have a calculator on the bench you just change the inches and decimals of an inch and multiply by 25.4 it all comes out in mm

I have adapted the jig to work on the Triton 2000 Work Centre.

I made mine mainly out of MDF but would probaly be better in all ply apart from the clamp and the backstop which I made out of hardwood.

To run it on the Triton Work Centre I cut a strip of plastic cutting board the same size as the mitre slot and it runs beautifully without any play at all.

The other good thing about the design is that you cut both sides of the tenon with out turning the work around.

I am sorry I can't post the details or measurements as it would probaly infringe copyrights, but hey if you want to build one go to Time Life and get the book Shop Built Jigs and Fixtures under Custom Woodworking.

This picture is it sitting on the Triton

[Barry_White]

Apparently the file was to BIG
I'll try with another picture

[Barry_White]

This is a picture of the back with the setting screws.

[Barry_White]

This is one showing the clamp bar.

[Barry_White]

This one is showing the underside with the plastic cutting board runner.

[DPB]

Barry, this is impressive. See your PM re futher comments.

[GeoffS]

Barry - it looks good and from your description overcomes my major gripe with many jigs - that you have to turn the workpiece around thus referencing each cut to the nearest face. Any variation in timber thickness is reflected as a variation in tenon thickness.
Perhaps you can explain how this jig moves from one cut to the other - without infringing copyright! I can't see from the pics.
Cheers

[Barry_White]

Hi Geoff

If you have a look at the second picture at the back of the jig is a threaded rod with two rod joiners and two wing nuts to lock them off.

What you do is mark your tenon on the first piece you want to cut the tenon on (or a test piece as old Norm Abrams says to do), run it up to the saw blade on one mark first and set the rod joiner up to the stop block and lock it of with the wing nut and then unlock the jig with the black knob and slide the jig up to the second mark and adjust the other rod joiner up to the opposite side of the stop block and lock it off with other wing nut.

You then tighten the black knob cut your first face, then loosen the black knob and then slide it back until the other rod joiner hits the stop block and cut your second face.

If you have a lot of tenons to cut you don't have any more adjusting to do.

Just as a point aside rather than built a morticing jig I splashed out and bought a morticing machine from Gasweld for less than $300 with a 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" Drill Chisels. A Toolex Brand which works fine.

[Helix]

Where do you buy that white material for the guide runner? What exactly is it, and is it working well?

[Barry_White]

Hi Helix

That is just plain old food cutting board bought from Big W and I just ripped it down on the Triton. You have to buy the biggest one which is about 12 - 15mm thick and you have to put it into a dado because it is fairly flexible when it is 8mm wide.

It runs beautifully in the Triton Mitre gauge slot.

[Helix]

Thanks Bazza! Good tip!

[GeoffS]

Barry - thanks for answer and it looks like using it wouldn't be all that different from mine. Mine is a much cruder device but provides a winding handle to move the fence and a dial gauge to tell you where it is.
One thing I have added to mine (which has had a lot of use) is a blade guard. I did not like the way the blade rather suddenly appeared all bare and exposed behind the jig.
It is just an MDF box which hooks onto the jig and slides back and forth with it. It is not permanently attached making it easier to store the whole thing. It goes out in front also and is partly covered - catches most of the saw dust as well.
And thanks for the idea of the plastic cutting board material for the guide - one day I will run out of the scrap steel that just happens to be the right size for the Triton bench. It came out of an 15" instrument rack - and there is not much left.
Cheers

[barrysumpter]

Barry,

Thanks for all the info and hints regarding this jig.

Hi all,

Have a look at my lutyens Garden Benches (yes I did make a second one).

Mortise and Tenon hell !

I used all Triton 'as is' techniques. as in no jigs.

Dropping the workpiece on the stopped blocked router table at increasing depths.

Nibbled away at the tenon cheek depths on the tabel saw.

Used a hand file on every tenon corner to fit its matching mortise.
Man did that take forever.

(Norm demonstrated how to round off the cheeks on a table saw recently. I screamed for a few minutes afterwards and was mad for weeks).

------

I've recently aquired a number of mortising bits to fit a recently acquired drill press.

I've spent most of the day sorting out the plans for this jig.
What a nightmare!

I'm now ready to start building the Jig tomorrow.

A few questions for Barry and anyone else who has built this jig.

(Understanding that cutting accurate mortise and tenons are near impossible.)

Does the jig wobble slightly or at all?

Specifically for the Triton I have found the table top wobbles depending on where you plase pressure.

Specifically for Cast Iron toped table saws - how accurate are your cuts?

( I would feel better to know that even the cast iron tabel top cuts are NOT all that accurate either.)

And if they are accurate how much work/maintenance does it take to keep them accurate.

Do you get ridges or gullys on the sholders or cheeks and always have to follow up on removing these with a chisel?

Or are the cuts close enough where you don't need to bother cleaning up?

Any suggestions at all on how to make this more accurate or any other modification to make this a better jig, please post here.


----

What I am hoping is that by using the mortisig bits and a proper fence on the drill press I can standardize the exact sizing of my mortises. Keeping in mind I absolutely must have the same size work pieces to duplicate the width of the mortise.

Any who have used these bits please jump in with any comments on how to maximize the accuracy.

----

Anyone make theirs out of anything except MSF and plywood?

----

And hopefully with this jig I will be able to standardize the tenon widths as well.

hmmm just had a flash where I might be able to interchange the stop block couplings by standardized thicknesses ????
Maybe to hard to ensure standard quarter sawn work pieces....

----

Appoligies for the long post. I've had my head stuck into my software product gearing up for v2 due Feb 1.

And could only factasize over the last few weeks about getting back into the woodshop.

[GeoffS]

Barry
Accuracy? I use mine on a Triton, with a Triton saw, and it is VERY accurate. I do my mortises with an attachment in the drill press so they are fairly accurate - although I suspect that the chisels sometimes follow the grain and make for some inaccuracy. By aiming for a tenon that is a tight fit the most I have to do is give it a light rasping to make a push fit. I use a rasp with the side teeth ground off to avoid damaging the meeting faces. Frequently I don't have to do anything.
The main limit to accuracy is the saw - if it has NO end play the accuracy will be good.
This is the best combination for M&T joints that I have ever used, apart from hand tools of course - but I handed in my Masochist Society certificate a long time ago!!!!
Cheers

[bitingmidge]

Barry,

Ref: the accuracy of cast iron table tops, my old el-cheapo Chinese model (which I bought because it was cheaper than replacing my worn-out triton and saw) was "quite" accurate, and with a bit of care in setting things up, accuracy could even get to "very". I am brave enough to say that with less care I could achieve the same results, and with a bit of fiddling in set-up the results were much more consistent.

My new Jet contractors saw, which is a "bit" more expensive than the orange one, and is fitted with a good quality blade was "extremely" accurate out of the box. On my scale that means that with no care at all I could achieve better results than both the other machines!

I guess there is an irony in the fact that as I gain more experience (and hopefully skill), the better equipment allows me to achieve the same result with less skill!!

It's just that I can no longer blame the tool...(sigh!!)

Love your work on the jigs by the way guys.....


Regards
P

[Barry_White]

To Barry Sumpter
The same as Geoff says my jig is very accurate depending on the side drift on the saw blade but I have a new Triton saw so there should be no drift at all.

The best part is once you test fit the Tenon all you tenons come out exactly the same because the stops are set for both cheeks of the tenon.

Because the plastic strip is a neat fit in the mitre track there is no movement of the jig on the table.

[barrysumpter]

Bazza,

Acknowledged! And Thanks.

The springs weren't avail at my local Taits.

Did you happen to get yours from Bunnings?

[barrysumpter]

Jig Builders,

I've also noticed that the plans DID NOT instruct me to insert screws in the BOTTOM of the supports. Joining the supports to the sliding platform.

Did anyone else notice this?

In Barry Whites photographs I see that there are two screw heads securing the support to the sliding platform. Both top and bottom.

I've also noticed double screwheads on the sides of the supports.

Are these for a stronger join?

[Barry_White]

Hi Barry

I did buy the springs from Bunnings. I also bought shorter 3/8 coach bolts for the hold down bar as well as shorter 1/4 coach bolts for the sliding platform because the yankee ones are threaded the full length of the bolt whereas ours aren't.

The drawings in the Time Life book show screws fixing the support brackets, but because I used MDF for the support brackets when I went to put the screws into the support brackets they began to split so I put the screws into the side of the support brackets to stop the splitting. As I said in the other posts it would be better made out of 3/4 ply to avoid the splitting.

BTW I just received the latest Time Life Book called Workshop Essentials and it lists amongst a lot of dust collecting ideas it has a plan to build a home made Cyclone dust collector as well as a Vacuum Clamping System with all different jigs for different machines as well as a Vacuum Veneer Press.

This is a great series of books only problem is the cost of about $40.90 for each book but with 127 pages of all plans and no ads.
The series has about 14 books in it.

[counstefan]

The Jig is great, I have the time life books and I will set about creating my own version of the Jig. I have been planning such a jig for my Triton 2000 but was looking at it from the angle of including the fence and and utilizing the sliding track on the 45 Degree side.

Your solution is far more practical

Great Work

Bernie

[barrysumpter]

Hi counstefan,

I too was looking at incorporating the fence and the captive pushstick (sliding mount).

And also the protractor slide strip instead of the fence.

[counstefan]

Hi Barry

I like the idea of using the same slide as the protractor. I have some idea as to how I might tacle this, thanks to Barry Whites excellent pictures. Now all I have to do is find the time.

[Potterage]

Hi Barry
I to have the Time Life Woodsmith books, boy! did they cost me a fortune. They have some great ideas!
I have a Jet Supersaw with the sliding table and I thought I could redesign the mortise jig to fit the sliding table. Has anybody had a go at it? Will save me a lot of work if I could get some clues.
Paul

[Bob Willson]

Paul

Don't make the Time Life jig, make the Rocker (David Dundas) one that is talked about on this BB elsewhere. It is deadly accurate.
The only thing that you need to be careful of with the Jet Supersaw is that the guide is on the right hand side of the blade rather than the left and so some mods will be required. Who knows, David may even have incorporated these mods into the design by now.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=7593&highlight=rocker+jig+tenon

PS the jig can be modified quite easily if you are aware of the problems beforehand

[Barry_White]

Hi Paul

I receive my last Custom Woodworking Time Life book this month. I agree they certainly aren't cheap but they are at least chock full of projects cover to cover with only one page of classified ads at the back and if you have a look in any bookshop no woodworking book is cheap.

Sorry I don't know how the Jet Supersaw operates with the sliding table but I would imagine that it would put the tenon jig too far away from the blade.

But as Bob says that the mitre guide slot is on the right hand side of the blade although I would have thought that all good saws would have had a mitre guide slot on both sides of the blade.

My answer would be to make the Tenon Jig as a Mirror Image and I reckon that it would work fine.

The thing I like about this tenon jig is that once you set the jig up you can cut both sides without turning the work piece around and as I said earlier in the thread if you cut a sample piece and test it in the mortice and once it is right you can go and cut multiple tenons without having to reset it.

I cut my mortices with a dedicated morticing machine and find I can get the tenons to fit neatly without the need of the accuracy of micrometer gauges. After all we are working with timber not steel.

[Bob Willson]

Barry

You can't have a mitre slot if you have a sliding table.

[Potterage]

Hi Bazza
Yes, even though there is no slot on the left because of the sliding table my idea is to attached the mortise jig (mirror image) the same way as the mitre attachment fixes to the sliding table with two screws and bushes. I realise I will have to make quite a large base to get the jig close enough to the blade.
Regards Paul

[Barry_White]

Barry

You can't have a mitre slot if you have a sliding table.
Not quite true Bob. Have a look.

Not that I own this one but I own one of the great Tritons that has mitre slots both sides as well as having a sliding extension table that I can cut 2400mm x 1200mm sheets on and as I show in the thread that I can cut very accurate tenons on with my tenon jig.:D :D :D :D

[Barry_White]

Paul


I certainly think that if you increase the size of the base board it would certainly work. As I said in the thread it would be better made from the ply rather than MDF although mine is OK.

[Potterage]

Hi Bob
I dont think I understand fully, is the Rocker a commercially available Tenon Jig or is it a design like the Time Life and if so where can I get a copy? Have you modified your jig to fit the sliding table and if so would there be any chance of seeing some photos?
Regards Paul

[Barry_White]

Paul

Rocker is a board member who has designed his own jig with a micrometer attached to it for accuracy. If you want the design you would have to send him a Private Message.

See his post of his jig.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=6993

[Potterage]

Hi Bazza
Thanks for the explanation I happened to have the latest Aust W/W so everything is explained. Am still quite keen on the modified Time Life version but maybe with a dial guage incorporated for the added accuracy. Will post some info when I come up with my design.
Regards Paul

[Bob Willson]

Not quite true Bob. Have a look.


OK, OK, so some VERY unusual sliding saw tables do have mortice slots to the sliding table side. :D

[jow104]

Hi Barry , how do you round the cheeks of a tenon using a table saw (triton)
Infor much obliged. [email protected]

[Bob Willson]

Set the table saw to the depth of the tenon cheeks.

Set the fence to the depth of the tenon

Move the tenon that you wish to round in a rotating manner and backwards and forwards over the highest part of the saw blade up to the fence and back again. ie a little bit of the 'old in out' as per the ex chooks current byline.

This should give you a nicely rounded tenon that will fit the routed mortice exactly

[jow104]

OK
but any tips if its a full cheek tenon is it back to the rasp?

[Barry_White]

Woody
As I use a dedicated chisel morticer I dont have a need to round them over but if I did I would run them off with a chisel and finish them off with a rasp or sandpaper

[Rocker]

Potterage,

I published an article on my precision tenoning jig in Australian Woodworker #113, Feb 2004. If you don't have ready access to that I can email you a description and plans, if you PM me your e-mail address.

Rocker

[Potterage]

Thanks Rocker I have #113 so I am going to design the Jig incorporating the Time LIfe and your version but offset using the sliding table on my Jet Supersaw.
Paul

[Bob Willson]

OK
but any tips if its a full cheek tenon is it back to the rasp?
This is for a full cheek tenon. IE cheeks all round. You twirl the tenon over the saw blade.