Advice on lathes please

[Red neck]

I’m in the market for a new (or second-hand) lathe provided I can sneak it into the shed under Madam Lash’s nose! I have narrowed the field down to either a Woodfast M910 or a Vicmarc VL200. Both are six speed units with belt drive.

A late entrant in the stakes is the Nova DVR 3000 which of course is electronic variable speed direct drive. It also punches out 1.75 hp!

Research on this site yielded little information on these specific units but considerable information on Chinese lathes. During my research I read an article in the AWR that favoured the manual speed change over the electronic variable speed units because of reliability of the former and possible expense and down-time of the latter. On the other hand the Nova is unique in that it doesn’t employ a belt drive therefore all the power produced by the motor is delivered to the headstock. Estimates indicate a 20 per cent loss of power in belt drive units.

Another argument suggested buying a bare lathe, sourcing the motor and stand elsewhere. In my case I have a substantial stand therefore will probably follow this direction. Estimates indicate a saving of some $700 against a complete unit. If I opt for the Nova DVR then that saving will be fully absorbed.

Although the Nova has a swivel head I’m also led to believe that a fixed head with an outboard turning unit is more stable.

I would appreciate feedback from users of the above three lathes with specific comment on overall satisfaction, manufacturers support, any problems with electronic variable speed units and any disappointments. If any of you folk have first hand experience of one compared to the other/s I would value your opinions. I should add that reviewing each manufacturers web site, Nova were the only manufacturer to offer a ‘PDF download’ of the operators handbook and access to a user FAQ.

[Jim Carroll]

You have answered your own questions. The DVR lathe is excellent for all your turning needs. You do not have to worry about changing belts, you can set the speed to exactly the speed you want not what the pulleys dictate. You are able to work at a better speed and get a cleaner cut from your tools. The comprimise with belts is that in most cases to go to the next speed will sometimes be too fast for what you trying to turn or the timber will not let you go that fast.
The DVR only uses enough power to turn the peice as you increase the load the torque increases when the load is decreased the torque is lowered all the while the speed you have set it for is stable , unlike belt drive models where you put more load on the peice the speed decreases and you have to stop the cut you are doing and take a new finer cut.
If there is any transfer of vibration it comes from the motor, belst & pulleys. Direct drive eliminates all of this.
Having a swivel head is a great assett as you do not have to lean over the bed and the DVR allows you to turn 16" over the bed or 29" with the out rigger. You can also set up a free standing outrigger and do larger peices if you want.
As with all lathes you make sure all the fastenings are in place and the stand is adequate for what you are trying to turn.
Turning outboard on the other lathes means turning backwards so learning some more new techniques.
I have a DVR and would not change it for anything else. I have used a large variety of belt drive lathes and variable speed just makes it so much easier.
Each DVR is individually checked prior to leaving the factory so warranty is almost negated. If something was to break it would almost certainly be something that the owner has done wrong. Turnaround time is no longer to get fixed than with a standard motor. You still have to dismantle both and take them to your service guy and wait for parts and hope he is not too busy to repair it when he is ready.
If there is any more info you require try www.cws.au.com or go back to the teknatool site and contact them for any other questions you have.
I hope this helps

[jamesy]

Jim has given a lot of detail on the Teknatool and the advise is obviously from experience and knowledge.

I have been using both Vicmarcs and Woodfasts for a long time and most of my friends have been using the Woodfast for ever.

Both are exceptionally good lathes, the woodfast has (now) 4 massive sealed for life bearings that are easy to replace so, in 10 years time of constant use you will be able to go off and purchase a set off the shelf and the lathe will be good for the same use for another 10 years.

The Vicmarc uses "timkin" type bearings, the same as wheel bearings, and do these handle some work. When I got my first Vicmarc I had some noise in the bearings and Vic changed them for me ( same as any wheel, some grid had scored the bearing and it took 10 mins to fix). You vary the tension until you get the right sound and temperature.

The belt drive system is right off the ark but I'm comfoable with it. The speeds from both lathes are comprehensive and I find that I have never really used any more than 2 or maybe, at a pinch, 3 speeds for any one job, one for roughing and one for the rest of the work, maybe one for finishing, and then wind back down to the original speed for sanding.

I learned to live with a bit of belt slip, and tend to leave the belt a little loose for this express reason ( has saved a few dig ins) but this is really a personal thing, I tend to be a little cautious after nearly losing an eye 12 years back. All of my lathes have been bought bare with motor separate so that I can build my own stand .

I would dearly love to play with a variable speed unit but because this is now only a hobby, finance's don't justify the expence.

Now, what do I use--- Believe it or not-- I now have a Woodfast C1000 and haven't had any of the probs reported in a previous discussion on this post. I'm impressed by the very positive way that it locks into place when you swivel the headstcok. Admittedly I have not put it to the test but I used my old Vicmarc extensively outboard with a freestand and like most things, you adapt. Believe me it is a damned big bowl when you get to that size.

[Red neck]

Jim and Jamesy,

I appreciate the effort you chaps put into your comprehensive responses. Some interesting points raised that I hadn’t thought about. I’m not one to shy away from new technology if someone else pays for it but the old ‘Irish’ gets in the way when I’m forking out!

My existing machine is a three speed Record CL2 and I know where you are coming from Jamesy when you talk about working through a project with just a few speed changes. I wouldn’t have a lot of trouble in persisting with the older technology from that point of view. Although the Record has a swivel head its effectiveness is limited by the length of the banjo, not that 370 watts will revolve a large blank! Sorta have to wait for it to pick up momentum and take lots of fine cuts!

The Woodfast and the Vicmarc weigh-in considerably heavier than the Nova so I must assume that the former units are well engineered and will outlast me. On the other hand the Nova has a shorter bed and the added extension could well put all three machines into the same structural mass.

The points I like about the Nova are the variable speed control, direct drive that must reduce vibration and increase power output for a given motor size. Jim, I was unaware of the variable torque output.

Jamesy I’m with you on the financial issues and I guess the final choice will be driven by cost. From the quality point of view I feel that all three manufacturers are right up there.

The VL200 bare lists for something like $1800. Motor and switch-gear would probably push it up to around $2250. The Nova lists around the $3000 but I would need to spend more on a bed extension. Shipping costs are probably another consideration for the Nova. Vicmarc are just over the bridge so to speak! Jim your pricings at www.cws.au.com could just clinch it for the DVR. Just one question though relating to spindle size. Different suppliers in Australia quote different sizes using metric or imperial. Just what is the size of the local units. I would need to buy inserts for a few chucks?

Jim and Jamesy thanks again for your informative input. I’ll keep you posted on my ultimate decision.

[BuLLiTT]

http://www.grizzly.com

I use a grizzle lathe. You might see how they stack up in the mix.

[Neil]

buLLITT - Grizzley aren't available in Australia.

Red Neck - you will have to ge an insert for your chuck no matter which lathe you use.

I don't have a DVR but have used it and I would love to have one. It is by far the smoothest running lathe I have ever used. The weight issue shouldn't be a problem. Having the swivel head actually makes the lathe more stable for big work especially in the early stages when it is out of round.

By turning the head at 90 degrees to the lathe the work is presented running in line with the bed making for a much more stable base, as the the off centre rock is taken up by the full length of the lathe and not the short more unstable width.

For a serious woodturners lathe you really only have a few choices in Australia. Omega, (in a class of it's own) Nova, Vicmarc and Woodfast. I have used them all and many others over the years and in all honesty my first choice now would be the DVR although I wouldn't mind the dosh to buy a top of the line Omega.

My couple of cents worth.

Cheers Neil http://www.ubeaut.biz/wave.gif

[kevinmcc]

Have you had a look at a Leady, made in NSW by Bruce Leadbetter, and with all the nice features that I have ever seen on any lathe. These are solid, flexible machines, and can have an extension fitted to the base. The headstock is reversible, the tailstock has a built in drilling slide, the whole thing is very solid and I'm told they sell for around $1500. I'd suggest having a look at the Woodturning website http://members.ozemail.com.au/~kjeeves/woodturning/woodturning.html
and go to the Bruce Leadbetter section. Bruce also makes a number of clever special tools for turning balls, eccentric shapes, making bowls out of a single piece of 19mm offcut and so on. He makes a good product.

cheers

[Red neck]

Guys,

Thanks for your input. After much deliberation I chose the Nova DVR 3000. Took delivery about a month ago and set it up on my old stand. Unfortunately ‘madam lash’ had ideas about a holiday and I didn’t get to turn anything much until the past week.

Jamesy, I must admit that I was very much in favour of the Woodfast and the Vicmarc, particularly since they are local products and I like to support our own industry. Both machines are also well made. I justified any guilt I had for the New Zealand product after a few hours of turning on the Nova. Well, they are part of the Anzac tradition!

Jim, the convenience of variable speed has convinced me that I don’t particularly want to go back to changing pulleys. The other issue is the constant speed regardless of tool pressure. It is possible to take some pretty hefty shavings. There is no reduction in speed but you seem to sense the increase in power as the motor automatically compensates. This is particularly noticeable with a strong bowl gouge.

Neil, I’m sure a turner of your experience would toss away the sandpaper for a sharp chisel and the DVR. You are right, the lathe is incredibly smooth. I don’t profess to be an accomplished turner but I have found that with some of my work, particularly using a skew chisel, I am able to achieve an incredibly smooth finish and with a few thousand hours more experience will probably not need to sand. Even the work off the roughing gouge would only have required light sanding without using the skew.

Kevin, I had forgotten all about the Leady and your post appeared just after I bought the Nova. Therefore I didn’t research the machine and can’t comment in that direction.

Bullitt, as commented above the Grizzly unit is not available in Australia, at least not with that badge on it. Perhaps it appears under another name.

Thanks again for the input.