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lubbing5cherubs
22nd February 2008, 08:34 AM
Hi I was contacted with a whirly question last night. Can someone here with the knowledge help me out. I said I would endeavour to find out so here I am.
bye Toni

GL Quoted:
Would you mind if I asked you something?

I made wooden baskets a very long time ago, which never really got anywhere, but recently I have set my mind to thinking about wooden jewellery. Essentially I use it green and shape it, drying it over the gas heater in our home and eventually it becomes dry enough to stay where I want it to be. So far it is early days, and of course I did not bring any piccies to show you what I mean, I do my internet through the local library at the moment.

I would like to know if you have the knowledge of how to stop these things uncurling when they get wet; it rains a lot here in the Netherlands and my rings unwind themselves, not very much but enough that I cannot imagine to sell them like this yet! I have heard of things like PEG which they have used in restoring sunken ships in the North Sea and IJsselmeer, but I know nothing of how it might be used at my scale (much smaller than even the smallest ships!) and whether it would achieve what I would like it to.

I would really appreciate your input. Sometime I will take some more piccies and let you see them.

thanks Toni

rsser
22nd February 2008, 03:39 PM
A curly one Toni ;-}

Bit hard to make out what the whole picture is here, but maybe if the pieces are fully dried (and that's a question mark) all that's needed is a good sealer.

And it's a bit hard to protect any wood from moving if fully wet. Maybe your friend just meant damp?

PS AFAIK PEG is used to replace water in wood with something inert. It used to be thought of as something of a silver bullet for green turners but it's not much talked about these days - and I've never used it so can't comment on its applications. I'd imagine it would be essential for sunken ship conservators to have something like it that would avoid the problems of old wood shrinking and falling apart.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
22nd February 2008, 04:46 PM
What Ern said.

I think it boils down to two choices, both stopping moisture from entering the wood; either fully sealing or going for a soaking type treatment.

Being jewellery I'd imagine it'd be worn, not just look pretty on a display, so surface sealing wouldn't be the best choice. It'd wear off and then you're back to square one.

I also haven't played with PEG so can't comment on how well it works, but other, similar treatments such as DDL (soaking in dishwashing liquid) have worked for me in treating green wood for turning.

I suspect that this is the way your friend should go... and even then there's no guarantees of success.

(FWIW, PEG is used to stabilise submerged wood.on any scale. Even small wooden platters, etc. Not just ships. :; )

hughie
22nd February 2008, 05:17 PM
Hi Toni,

re PEG it is not really available here except by your own importation. I looked at it and they wanted to ship a 200L drum :o Which I thought a bit much even with a few friends.

You could try a company called Floods in Sydney [padstow] , they have a web site. They market a product called penetrol that soaks right in and does not effect the colour. As a sealer it works very well, this might be worth a look at. They will send you a small sample bottle, so give it a go.

Toyboy
22nd February 2008, 05:22 PM
AND, with Penetrol, it can be painted or stained over etc after about 3 days. I swear by the stuff. Almost every piece of timber I use that may possibly come into contact with any moisture, gets a hit with it.
As Hughie said, it won't affect the colour of your work either.

rsser
22nd February 2008, 05:30 PM
So guys, what's penetrol in Dutch?

;-}

Toyboy
22nd February 2008, 05:32 PM
Same thing , but with a Dutch accent. :D
Just like this.....penetrol. Now you try it.:doh:

rsser
22nd February 2008, 05:35 PM
Geez, TB, Dutch is my second language and I wouldn't dare.

Like speaking Welsh, it would spray my screen with spit ;-}

Toyboy
22nd February 2008, 05:37 PM
Ok...I've just figured out why my screen is all blurry. I'll go clean it and let you know.:B

Skew ChiDAMN!!
22nd February 2008, 06:15 PM
I always blame that on the Shellawax & DO spin-off... :;

joe greiner
23rd February 2008, 01:05 AM
Wood has an amazing tendency to revert to its original shape when wetted after drying. Have a squint at post #79 (or so) here:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=44003&page=6&highlight=impossible+puzzle

I suspect your friend's dissatisfaction arises from not securing the desired shape by mechanical or adhesive means. If the pieces of wood are free to revert, they will. Wooden or rattan baskets will do the same if the strips aren't locked together by weaving. Your friend should redesign the product with this in mind. I don't think chemical stabilisers of any kind would be adequate.

Joe

gemma.laming
26th February 2008, 09:46 AM
Guys, this is one busy site!! Thankyou all so much for all the info, I really appreciate your help. I think the last guy hit the nail on the head with his observations on the rattan furniture. I will keep in touch and also sort out some photos next time I get the chance, which could be a while because someone has stolen my paspoort, helemaal een rotzak.

Thankyou so much again, and I will enjoy using this very dynamic site!

Gemma

rsser
26th February 2008, 10:54 AM
Welcome Gemma.

Haven't heard the term 'rotzak' since I was a kid. Might need translating ;-}

(My father lived in Utrecht as a teenager and his father designed houses there and a church I think.)

lubbing5cherubs
26th February 2008, 04:49 PM
Hi Gemma, nice to see you posting here. Great to see you again
Toni

Gil Jones
27th February 2008, 11:49 AM
Welcome, Gemma.
Ern, I think rotzak means scoundrel.

rsser
27th February 2008, 02:53 PM
Thanks Gil.

My guess was that literally it meant bag of garbage.

gemma.laming
7th March 2008, 05:58 AM
Hi Guys, a rotzak is a ratbag! Need I say more? The idea of garbage is the right direction though.

Anyone heard of Rotsnest island (rats nest)? I think it is away from the coast of Australia, but it was my ancestors that gave it the name, but that was rather a long time ago, and long before the family had settled in SA. Gemma

rsser
7th March 2008, 07:41 AM
ah yes, now called Rotnest I think. Nice beaches.

hughie
7th March 2008, 06:41 PM
ah yes, now called Rotnest I think. Nice beaches.


Yep, Rottnest it is, the home of the Quokka.

http://www.rottnestisland.com/en/Education+and+Environment/Flora+and+Fauna/The+Quokka.htm

rsser
7th March 2008, 07:45 PM
... wot the Dutch called rats.

New worlders!

InkSpot
10th March 2008, 10:00 PM
Rotzak has a bit more mongrel in it while Klootzak is a bit more on the dumb site. Both are fighting words in de kroeg (pub) so be careful.

woodturner777
11th March 2008, 07:34 PM
now correct me if i am wrong, we are talking small pieces of wood here, cut them a little bit over size and put them in the microwave for a few minutes on defrost let them cool down then put them in again do this a few times, i have done this for years to dry out pen blanks , works a treat, regards Robert,

tea lady
11th March 2008, 08:44 PM
Guys, this is one busy site!! Thankyou all so much for all the info, I really appreciate your help. I think the last guy hit the nail on the head with his observations on the rattan furniture. I will keep in touch and also sort out some photos next time I get the chance, which could be a while because someone has stolen my paspoort, helemaal een rotzak.

Thankyou so much again, and I will enjoy using this very dynamic site!

Gemma
How come she can swear and we can't?:((:D%&#@KING)*&$ARD

(Rotzak might mean rat? Or ratfink?)

(My dad is Dutch. So I knew dutch swear word before English ones. He told us not to say it in front of the dutch nuns at school though.:no:)