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lubbing5cherubs
21st May 2008, 10:30 PM
HI Check these out He takes segmented to a new depth. What do you reckon? I think it some great food for thought
bye
Toni

http://www.placek.info/bowls.htm

coffenup
21st May 2008, 10:45 PM
:o looks great I only dream of my work that good

joe greiner
21st May 2008, 11:06 PM
Verrrry interesting. They're called "square" bowls, but they have turned elements. Built-up blanks aren't quite segmented in the usual sense, but all sorts of possibilities.

Here's some pics of a non-segmented bowl I saw last October at Capitol Area Woodturners (near Washington DC USA). I've almost completed scratching my head about how it was mounted and the turning sequence. [Oops! It is built-up after all.]

Another technique of compound turning is that used by Hans Weissflog; produces intersecting voids like on a flat routed trivet. One of his was on the cover of American Woodturner, Spring 2008.

Joe

Sawdust Maker
21st May 2008, 11:28 PM
They seem to be segmented or laminated into a flat board then circle cut on a bandsaw at an angle then glued into a bowl shape and finished. Read about the idea in a book as a way of making a bowl out of a, say, one inch thick board. the laminating before bandsawing adds another dimension
there's a possibility they have never been near a lathe:oo:
nice trick and very stunning - will have to file the idea away in the grey matter to try some day
nice find Toni:2tsup:

littlebuddha
22nd May 2008, 01:37 AM
Verrrry interesting. They're called "square" bowls, but they have turned elements. Built-up blanks aren't quite segmented in the usual sense, but all sorts of possibilities.

Here's some pics of a non-segmented bowl I saw last October at Capitol Area Woodturners (near Washington DC USA). I've almost completed scratching my head about how it was mounted and the turning sequence. [Oops! It is built-up after all.]

Another technique of compound turning is that used by Hans Weissflog; produces intersecting voids like on a flat routed trivet. One of his was on the cover of American Woodturner, Spring 2008.

Joe

Not quite the same Joe but gets the mind working for a while:D..LB

joe greiner
22nd May 2008, 08:33 PM
The thing that caught my eye in October was that it was also both square and round. Anyone living near a capitol city should be accustomed to ambiguity, I guess. Having established the notion of double mounting, it was a short leap to Weissflog's work, and I just re-examined the AAW cover to find that it didn't have a final form exhibiting the square after all. Oh well.

I only looked at one link earlier, but after looking at a couple more, I didn't see any that matched the technique cited by Sawdust Maker. There's a tool called "ringmaster" ( http://www.ringmastertool.com/ ) that makes sloping rings for assembly into turning blanks. I saw some made that way at a recent exhibition here, and frankly I thought they were uninspiring. Might have been the turner's limited choices of course.

A variation of the ringmaster, somewhat cooler, is to cut a single board in a spiral with the bandsaw or scrollsaw table tilted, like telescoping baskets. Glue together after telescoping, and then turn. There was a thread about this in the past year or so; "spiral bowl" or similar title.

But back to the original link, have a squint at this one: http://www.placek.info/Autum_bowls1/slides/G2.html - note that the infill pieces have been cut back between others. That takes careful cutting after turning. And note they've included photographic data below the picture. We've spilled quite a bit of virtual ink about such info around here lately.

In any event, thanks heaps for discovering this, Toni. Lots of ideas to clone.

Joe

Harry72
22nd May 2008, 08:50 PM
Would the square bowl in Joes post be turned on 2 axis, 1st for the outside leaving the back square then shift the centre point/axis 90° to turn the inner bowl shape?

joe greiner
22nd May 2008, 09:21 PM
As I said earlier I've almost completed scratching my head. I see two problems turning the outside first: No purchase point for the second turning, and severe imbalance. I'm persuaded that the inside is likely turned first, with a matching companion. Then glue together for the outside with scrap tenons to hold between centres, or chuck and live centre. After the second (half) turning, separate the pieces and dress the "ends." Clean the glue joint(s) on a belt sander. Or something like that.

Joe

Sawdust Maker
22nd May 2008, 09:37 PM
Joe

I think I'll have to disagree
I think the process I described would make such a bowl. the grain on the end of the lighter timber looks to flow to each ring below to me. The next bowl in the series seems similar but with the rings rotated 180 degrees.
Not sure I have the technique or the expertise, but now my interest is piqued.
I suppose the proof is in the pudding so I'll have to give it a try
In about 3 months I'll post a wip - have other things to do first - ie have to keep the chancelloress of the exchequer happy first ... and given I've just spent some money... well ... :rolleyes:

cheers

Nick

edit
this was a comment on Joe's previous response
second edit
sorry we are talking about different things. Anyway could they have used hot melt glue?

joe greiner
22nd May 2008, 09:48 PM
No disagreement, Nick. The process you described certainly would make a bowl. I just didn't notice any like that on the original link. I'll take a closer look during my copious "leisure" time. The retiree's motto is "I don't know how I ever found time for work. Now it takes me all day to do nothing.":D

Cheers,
Joe

nalmo
23rd May 2008, 12:24 AM
After laminating, the outside would be turned as a hemisphere about an axis running across the diameter of the bowl at right angles through the midpoint of the square edge and level with the top of the bowl section. The inside would then be turned about an axis at right angles to the first as you would normally turn the inside of the bowl.

Řistein
23rd May 2008, 09:30 AM
No disagreement, Nick. The process you described certainly would make a bowl. I just didn't notice any like that on the original link. I'll take a closer look during my copious "leisure" time. The retiree's motto is "I don't know how I ever found time for work. Now it takes me all day to do nothing.":D

Cheers,
Joe

Hi joe.
I´m agreed with you how the bolw is turned.:)

Best regards,
Řistein

Jarrahrules
23rd May 2008, 10:21 PM
The thing that caught my eye in October was that it was also both square and round. Anyone living near a capitol city should be accustomed to ambiguity, I guess. Having established the notion of double mounting, it was a short leap to Weissflog's work, and I just re-examined the AAW cover to find that it didn't have a final form exhibiting the square after all. Oh well.

I only looked at one link earlier, but after looking at a couple more, I didn't see any that matched the technique cited by Sawdust Maker. There's a tool called "ringmaster" ( http://www.ringmastertool.com/ ) that makes sloping rings for assembly into turning blanks. I saw some made that way at a recent exhibition here, and frankly I thought they were uninspiring. Might have been the turner's limited choices of course.

A variation of the ringmaster, somewhat cooler, is to cut a single board in a spiral with the bandsaw or scrollsaw table tilted, like telescoping baskets. Glue together after telescoping, and then turn. There was a thread about this in the past year or so; "spiral bowl" or similar title.

But back to the original link, have a squint at this one: http://www.placek.info/Autum_bowls1/slides/G2.html - note that the infill pieces have been cut back between others. That takes careful cutting after turning. And note they've included photographic data below the picture. We've spilled quite a bit of virtual ink about such info around here lately.

In any event, thanks heaps for discovering this, Toni. Lots of ideas to clone.

Joe

Thanks for the web site JOE.:oo::oo:

I got so excited because they look easy to make so i will be making some soon. My wife told me to shut up as I kept telling her to come and look at the bowls. :~Any way the Kids loved them.:D:D

Regards
JAMC
:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Sawdust Maker
23rd May 2008, 10:24 PM
No disagreement, Nick. The process you described certainly would make a bowl. I just didn't notice any like that on the original link. I'll take a closer look during my copious "leisure" time. The retiree's motto is "I don't know how I ever found time for work. Now it takes me all day to do nothing.":D

Cheers,
Joe

About 3 years and I'll be taking all day to do nothing as well :D
looking forward to it
But need to fully set up the shed before then, and I think SWMBO is wising up to my plan:oo:

After you've had a closer look let me know. I very well may have not seen something and would like to corrected before I blunder into a mistake

When I first read about idea of using a board to make a bowl, I thought 'ho hum' but after looking at the site Toni posted, I thought this may have some merit and I will have to re-examine my prejudices. Anyway I'll give it a try in the coming months, if I can locate some lumber suitable

cheers

Sawdust Maker
23rd May 2008, 10:27 PM
Jarrahrules
post a wip if you can please:)
looks like you may get to it before me:2tsup:
cheers
S'dM

joe greiner
24th May 2008, 04:28 AM
After laminating, the outside would be turned as a hemisphere about an axis running across the diameter of the bowl at right angles through the midpoint of the square edge and level with the top of the bowl section. The inside would then be turned about an axis at right angles to the first as you would normally turn the inside of the bowl.

We're all just guessing about how something might have been executed, of course. It wasn't clear which of the members had turned it, so I didn't know who to ask, and IIRC, nobody else asked either.

Although outside first could probably be done, I think it would need some temporarily-attached waste blocks for fixturing and balance to then turn the inside. And waste block(s) for balance for the outside if only a single bowl had been turned. This persuaded me toward the process I described.

Even knowing how someone else achieved something doesn't rule out an alternate procedure.

Joe

Jarrahrules
24th May 2008, 09:25 PM
We're all just guessing about how something might have been executed, of course. It wasn't clear which of the members had turned it, so I didn't know who to ask, and IIRC, nobody else asked either.

Although outside first could probably be done, I think it would need some temporarily-attached waste blocks for fixturing and balance to then turn the inside. And waste block(s) for balance for the outside if only a single bowl had been turned. This persuaded me toward the process I described.

Even knowing how someone else achieved something doesn't rule out an alternate procedure.

Joe

Your right Joe
There are more than one way to skin a cat. I have glued some timber together to attempt to do it the way I think so i will post some photos when I am done. May be a couple of days. Should be good.
JAMC:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Jarrahrules
1st June 2008, 07:11 PM
Jarrahrules
post a wip if you can please:)
looks like you may get to it before me:2tsup:
cheers
S'dM
Hi saw dust maker I did it. Here a couple of pics of the one i made.
74533

74534

74535

74536

74537
Timbers are Vic Ash and Jarrah. Bowl is 180mm by 180mm.
Pretty cool hey!
JAMC:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

hughie
1st June 2008, 07:29 PM
well done :2tsup:

joe greiner
1st June 2008, 10:23 PM
Hughie, you're a master of understatement. I'd say VERY well done. Thanks, JAMC.

Joe

TTIT
1st June 2008, 11:10 PM
Top job Jarrah! A very well skun cat indeed :2tsup:

No offence, but it looks to me like it should be attached to the wall of a church or something - a 'font' I think its called???!!:;

Sawdust Maker
1st June 2008, 11:12 PM
jr
very very nice job:clap::clap:
The Jarrah and Vic Ash go well together
How did you end up chucking it?
and did you do a wip?

btw I was talking about the other bowls on the website:doh:
But yours is pretty damn good :2tsup::2tsup:

Jarrahrules
1st June 2008, 11:13 PM
Top job Jarrah! A very well skun cat indeed :2tsup:

No offence, but it looks to me like it should be attached to the wall of a church or something - a 'font' I think its called???!!:;

I do agree a bit but i just had to prove a point with the other guys that were arguing how to make it, that was if you could, that I DID.

Came up Okay to.
JAMC

Jarrahrules
1st June 2008, 11:22 PM
jr
very very nice job:clap::clap:
The Jarrah and Vic Ash go well together
How did you end up chucking it?
and did you do a wip?

btw I was talking about the other bowls on the website:doh:
But yours is pretty damn good :2tsup::2tsup:

Thought you may ask.
74552
First i turned the end on a face plate. Using a cardboard template.
74553
Then i cut it in half and attached it to the face plate and turned the inside.
74554
I left one end long so i could screw in the false board to the block. Then after finishing i cut it off.
The timber shown is acting as a counter weight.

regards
Jamc

TTIT
1st June 2008, 11:30 PM
Ah hah! So there's a pair of them! Just as I thought - one for each side of the aisle :U:U

joe greiner
2nd June 2008, 06:45 PM
Well, there you have it. Either sequence works. I suppose the second bowl could be scrap (no inside turning), but it makes more sense to make a pair. Thanks for the WIP.

Back to the OP, there are tonnes of other ways to prepare a blank, some really bizarre. In a variation of the Celtic Knot technique used for pens and goblets, infill layers are made the same thickness as the saw kerf from a bandsaw or table saw, and glued to replace the cutout so that the parent timber has grain continuity across the gap. Subsequent kerfs may, or may not, have any geometric basis. One of our WT members, Marvin Livingston, has made a couple bowls this way, but older pics are temporarily unavailable because of storage limitations on the website. He makes footballs too, but Gil Jones' link here also crashed.

Joe

Mark Placek
5th June 2008, 02:21 PM
I'm glad to see my work being discussed here.
The technique I employ is stacked ring lamination.
And yes, they are turned on the lathe, outboard of course.

I started turning pens, then small solid wood bowls.
I discovered segmented turning during my second year.
Having a strong foundation in carpentry is the key to my
success with square and rectangular bowls.

I have a very unique addition to my new turnings that I
will post here first in the near future.

Oh yeah... My Thanks to Toni for finding my website! :)

wheelinround
5th June 2008, 02:26 PM
I'm glad to see my work being discussed here.
The technique I employ is stacked ring lamination.
And yes, they are turned on the lathe, outboard of course.

I started turning pens, then small solid wood bowls.
I discovered segmented turning during my second year.
Having a strong foundation in carpentry is the key to my
success with square and rectangular bowls.

I have a very unique addition to my new turnings that I
will post here first in the near future.

Oh yeah... My Thanks to Toni for finding my website! :)



Mark welcome aboard amazing stuff you have created looking forward to some threads from you and visiting your web site............often

Ray

Sawdust Maker
5th June 2008, 03:27 PM
Mark

Welcome to the forum
From the debate I think you'll notice that we like your work:2tsup: Very eye-catching.
Just a quick question. Do you fully laminate then cut the circles? or do you laminate two halves cut half circles then join all together during the glue up?

cheers

dusty

Jarrahrules
5th June 2008, 05:12 PM
I'm glad to see my work being discussed here.
The technique I employ is stacked ring lamination.
And yes, they are turned on the lathe, outboard of course.

I started turning pens, then small solid wood bowls.
I discovered segmented turning during my second year.
Having a strong foundation in carpentry is the key to my
success with square and rectangular bowls.

I have a very unique addition to my new turnings that I
will post here first in the near future.

Oh yeah... My Thanks to Toni for finding my website! :)



Hi Mark.
Love your work. Hope i didn't ofend you by making the above bowl.:B
Ragards
JAMC:2tsup:

TTIT
5th June 2008, 05:18 PM
I'm glad to see my work being discussed here.
The technique I employ is stacked ring lamination................
..................................
Welcome to the forum Mark :2tsup: - your spine must have been shivering with us talking about your stuff eh?!?!:;

joe greiner
5th June 2008, 11:46 PM
Welcome aboard, Mark. You'll find this gang most helpful and inquisitive.

(Although I'm still having trouble with "aluminium."):wink:

Joe

Mark Placek
6th June 2008, 12:40 AM
Mark

Welcome to the forum
From the debate I think you'll notice that we like your work:2tsup: Very eye-catching.
Just a quick question. Do you fully laminate then cut the circles? or do you laminate two halves cut half circles then join all together during the glue up?

cheers

dusty
Hello!

I do cut two half circles. Depending upon the design, the glue-up will need
to be very precise. I have developed techniques that eliminates costly errors. I found this way (stacked ring) of making bowls works very well for me, but it might not for everyone. I may reveal my technique in writing and pictures here very soon. Thanks for your interest in my work! Mark:)

TEEJAY
7th June 2008, 08:21 AM
Hello!

I may reveal my technique in writing and pictures here very soon.:)

tease tease :D