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rsser
12th August 2008, 04:28 PM
In the June 2007 issue of Woodturning Magazine from UK, there is an article by Colin Simpson reporting a test of cryogenically treated tools.

If anyone has it and can scan and email it I'd be very grateful :2tsup: Or photocopy; happy to cover your costs and stand you a drink sometime.

This is to inform my sharpening experiments, when they get extended to tests of metallurgy.

Have just acquired a Glaser A11 gouge, reputed to keep an edge '3 or 4 times longer' than M2. We'll see! Supposed to have a high vanadium content, be triple tempered and cryo treated :rolleyes: . Got a schmick handle but :D

.

joe greiner
12th August 2008, 09:08 PM
Google ["colin simpson" cryogenically] may provide sufficient background information for your needs. Or may not, of course. Not too many hits (12 or 20, depending on options).

There's also an article by Alan Lacer in the Summer 2008 Journal of AAW with similar objectives AFAICT. I'm not sure about online availability, though - probably not.

Joe

tea lady
12th August 2008, 09:53 PM
So where's the pics of the gouge then?:p And the schmick handle and everything? :rolleyes:

paulloseby
13th August 2008, 05:31 AM
Hi Rssr - if you let me know your e-mail address, I have June 2007 Woodturning and the article which is on pages 28 and 29. I will scan it and send it to you.

rsser
13th August 2008, 08:07 AM
You're a gem Paul. Many thanks. Email sent.

Suggest though that you remove your email address from the post because of spam bots.

Thanks for the Lacer ref Joe. I'm not a member but will see if I can buy a back issue.

rsser
14th August 2008, 05:37 PM
Paul, many thanks again. Scan arrived.

Joe, AWT Summer 08 is winging its way as we speak. God bless America.

Tea Lady, I hesitate to post a pic of the yewbeaut gouge. There's a cultural issue involved. Viz: Americans when they meet in a business context will within a few minutes have told each other what they're good at and have exchanged business cards.

Anglos, and those whose predominant culture is of that extraction, will in those minutes have covered everything but what they're good at and passionate about. If they had, it'd be 'bunging on side' or similar.

When, eg., you look at posts of work on this forum, you'll notice many examples of immaculate work, accompanied by no comments about the challenges of producing nor about the pride of the maker; or by self-deprecating ones (eg. pointing out uncertainties in design choices or in deficiencies of the execution).

I expect some readers would by now have seen the above as either a rant or as bunging on side.

If I was bunging on side by posting a pic, I'd be making unwarranted claims about either my purchasing power (irrelevant to the main concern, which is kinda true) or about my ability to produce better work with said item (which would be making claims to be better than my peers, as yet unproved, and in any case irrelevant since we're all the same really, aren't we).

Anyway, having a non-Anglo heritage I'll take a risk and post a pic. The flute profile is oval.

hughie
15th August 2008, 03:32 AM
look forward to your in depth review of said glasser gouge..............:U

rsser
19th August 2008, 06:46 PM
First impressions:

* nicely polished flute; no milling marks
* tip is ground at 55 degrees and is quite pointed
* long rather straight wings
* handle has hexagonal sections to stop the tool rolling when on the bench
* and is also quite heavy, weighted with shot, which may strain the fingernail grinding jig
* and feels cold with our temps

tea lady
24th August 2008, 12:53 AM
Paul, many thanks again. Scan arrived.

Joe, AWT Summer 08 is winging its way as we speak. God bless America.

Tea Lady, I hesitate to post a pic of the yewbeaut gouge. There's a cultural issue involved. Viz: Americans when they meet in a business context will within a few minutes have told each other what they're good at and have exchanged business cards.

Anglos, and those whose predominant culture is of that extraction, will in those minutes have covered everything but what they're good at and passionate about. If they had, it'd be 'bunging on side' or similar.

When, eg., you look at posts of work on this forum, you'll notice many examples of immaculate work, accompanied by no comments about the challenges of producing nor about the pride of the maker; or by self-deprecating ones (eg. pointing out uncertainties in design choices or in deficiencies of the execution).

I expect some readers would by now have seen the above as either a rant or as bunging on side.

If I was bunging on side by posting a pic, I'd be making unwarranted claims about either my purchasing power (irrelevant to the main concern, which is kinda true) or about my ability to produce better work with said item (which would be making claims to be better than my peers, as yet unproved, and in any case irrelevant since we're all the same really, aren't we).

Anyway, having a non-Anglo heritage I'll take a risk and post a pic. The flute profile is oval.
:hmm: you're an academic aren't you......:rolleyes::D

Claw Hama
24th August 2008, 01:29 AM
I'm afraid I'm with Tea Lady:educate::U

TEEJAY
24th August 2008, 08:59 AM
Yep that's the sorta thing i would pen half way through my second scotch on ice on a quiet uneventful evening.

The first scotch makes me philosopical and the second deludes me into thinking I should share this "knowledge"


:p

TEEJAY
24th August 2008, 09:02 AM
Interested to get your impressions with use as to how well it appears to hold it's edge.

Cheers

hughie
24th August 2008, 03:38 PM
Ern,

A well balanced review or opinion should transcend ethnicity and all its short comings.

Its up to the reader, to not to be so minded.


Look forward to your thoughts/opinon/review etc on the gouge.

joe greiner
26th August 2008, 01:49 AM
A third or fourth scotch might allow the "knowledge" to ferment for a while before sharing it. DAMHIKT.:wink::D

Joe

rsser
30th August 2008, 09:30 PM
Yep, will post impressions of use when I have time.

And yes, TL, I'm aware that in Anglo culture, 'academic' is a term of disparagement. However I'm happy to wear the label with pride. I earned it by hard yards and see no problem in applying what I learned in my profession to other realms of life.

FWIW I may have to eat my words, well, suspicions, re a honed scraper edge. Jeff and I turned a bowl out of hard figured redgum. We cleaned up the inside with one of his Hamlet heavy scrapers which he had sharpened on the Tormek and lapped the top of. It did a damned fine job. This was a piece that dulled his Hamlet ASP gouge in a pass or two, ditto my HT gouge.

In my professional life, this kind of observation might form part of 'evidence-based practice'.

tea lady
30th August 2008, 11:15 PM
Sorry Rssr.:B No offence. I am prolly just jelous. I can't put words together very well, so stire anyone who can. And as for typos.:rolleyes:

So what is the conclusion drawn fron the experiments?

rsser
30th August 2008, 11:40 PM
Thanks TL.

'speriments just in lit review and setup stage, apart from impression of Jeff's scraper. Still need to get enough wood of the right sort.

DJ’s Timber
30th August 2008, 11:49 PM
How much are you after Ern and wet or dry?

rsser
31st August 2008, 12:09 AM
Hi DJ, good question and I have to guess a bit since this is unknown territory for me.

I'd say dry hardwood with a consistent grain. Maybe a metre of 4x4 or thicker.

It has to do for a 3/8" wide scraper which will be sharpened in 3 diff ways.

There's a cylinder of redgum donated by Calm at last year's turnfest but just turning it into mulch would be a b*mmer :(

DJ’s Timber
31st August 2008, 12:23 AM
Got a heap of 4x4's in redgum that I cut 5 or 6 yrs ago from the same log of which is fairly straight grain and consistent if you can say that for redgum. Also a piece of hardwood that's 1500mm long, pretty heavy so would be Messmate maybe yellowgum or box.

rsser
31st August 2008, 12:43 PM
The unknown species might be more consistent than Redgum DJ ... what do you think? What's the cross-section size?

DJ’s Timber
31st August 2008, 01:09 PM
It was been used as a bit of dunnage in my trailer so it would a 4x4 as well, have to do a pickup from Craigeburn tomorrow so will drop it off on the way through for you :2tsup:

rsser
31st August 2008, 01:33 PM
That would be very kind of you DJ.

Any idea of time, so's I can offer you a cuppa ..?

DJ’s Timber
31st August 2008, 01:38 PM
Late morning probably :shrug:

tea lady
31st August 2008, 01:52 PM
Is there some way of testing the wood for hardness? Is there a scale of hardness for wood? I know the one for ceramics is called "moe's scale of hardness" And uses various minerals to try and scratch. But wood has an inconsistant sitica content doesn't it? Or is it evenly through? How is the silica "bound" in the wood? (There are white specks in a stick of Murbu I have, but it doesn't always show as that does it. ) Can you test it with a spectrum analiser? And what else effects the "hardness"?

rsser
31st August 2008, 02:14 PM
Good thinking TL.

There are density ratings for timber species, which would go some of the way.

Not all woods show significant silica content btw, but add this variable to density and you'd get some measure of the capacity of a given sample of a given species to dull an edge. Dunno what else would come into play - that's my ignorance. But at one level it doesn't matter since what I'm trying to vary is scraper sharpening treatments.

Have just taken the scraper Jeff sharpened for me on his Tormek and lapped the top with 15, 5 and 0.5 micron abrasives.

DJ’s Timber
31st August 2008, 03:32 PM
Is there some way of testing the wood for hardness? Is there a scale of hardness for wood? I know the one for ceramics is called "moe's scale of hardness" And uses various minerals to try and scratch. But wood has an inconsistant sitica content doesn't it? Or is it evenly through? How is the silica "bound" in the wood? (There are white specks in a stick of Murbu I have, but it doesn't always show as that does it. ) Can you test it with a spectrum analiser? And what else effects the "hardness"?

Have been searching my other computer for a file that I have before I answered this question for you TL.

Yes there is a way of measuring the hardness of the timber, the one for timber is called "Janka"

Quoted from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_Wood_hardness_rating)


The Janka Wood Hardness Rating measures the relative hardnesses of different woods. The Janka test involves measuring the force required to embed a 11.28 millimeter (0.444 inch) steel ball into wood to half its diameter. This method was chosen so that the result would leave an indention 100 square millimeters in size. It is one of the best measures of the ability of a wood species to withstand denting and wear. It is also a good indicator of how hard a species is to saw or nail.

I have a list of timber species on my drive of which comes from Bootle's Wood In Australia (http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/aboutus/news/bush-telegraph-magazine/summer-2006/wood-in-australia-republished) book, the list covers some 323 species of which a lot of these are the same species but grown in different areas or climates.

So once I have identified what the timber is that I am giving Ern tomorrow, I'll be able to list the hardness and density for it.

rsser
31st August 2008, 03:51 PM
Good stuff DJ.

Another source of density ratings and a lot more besides on Oz timber species is Australian Timber Buyer's Guide

For more detail click on http://www.skillspublish.com.au/Timbooktbg.htm