Restoring hand planes.

[DanP]

Hi,

Bit the bullet and just recieved a Stanley/Bailey No 5 I bought off ebay. I have dated the plane to 1933 - 1941. Dated it on this site.
Plane dating (http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/)

The plane has seen better days but appears to be in sound condition. It has a fine coating of surface rust over the whole plane but appears to have almost no pitting to the sole, sides, irons or frog. The japanning is stuffed and the surface under the japanning is all rusted. Again, this appears to be just surface rust with no DEEP pitting. The knob is in excellent condition but the handle is broken off about 1" up from the base.

The question's are:

1. After removing all the buggered japanning and underlying rust, what should i do to restore these surfaces. I want to do it right. I don't even know what japanning really is - is it just paint or some other exotic finish?

2. Can I make my own handle and if so what is the best way to go about it. I have some nice blackwood, would this be suitable?

3. Is there anything else I should know about restoring a plane. I don't want to stuff it up and have to put new parts on a nice old plane. (Other than the handle)

Thanks in advance, (expecting a welcome detailed reply from Derek):D

Dan

[ozwinner]

Hi Dan
There is a receipe for japaning on this BB some where.

Cheers, Al

[DanP]

Al,

Any idea where I might find it. I've done searches on restoring, restoration, japanning, japaning and tuning. I can't seem to find much at all. I did a search on plane and gave up when I got back about 50 pages of hits.

Dan

[ozwinner]

Sorry cant help you there.
Someone was restored a plane, maybe it was a link to a japaning site, which wouldnt show up on a search.
I'm sure someone here will know of it though.

Cheers, Al

[davo453]

If you do a search on "plane refinishing" you will find the thread (1 hit), unfortunately the link provided by Derek doesn't seem to work.

Maybe he knows were it's moved to or took a copy of the page.

Cheers


Dave

[derekcohen]

Dan

Levelling a plane bottom:

After thoroughly cleaning the plane parts in thinners, reassemble the plane and retract the blade (this will recreate the tension on the cast iron). Check the squareness of the sides with the sole, and the mouth with the sides. These need to be straight/square/flat. Paste beltsander grit on a FLAT surface (glass, bench planer). Begin with about 60 grit (if you have to remove much metal), and work your way through the grits (don't skip any if you want to get it done this side of Xmas) all the way to at least 360. I prefer 600 wet and dry.

BIG TIP: try dry wall sheets (they have an open weave). These work even better than sandpaper!!

The art of levelling a plane's sole is basically to hold the plane FLAT on the sandpaper and push it this way; NOT to attempt to plane it flat as this will just follow the lines of previous wear or tip to one side.

Here are a couple of useful links.

This one deals with stripping a plane and refinishing knobs. It is long, so be prepared to wait a minute.

http://host65.ipowerweb.com/~traditi2/forum/viewtopic.php?t=290

The next is one on fixing a cracked tote:

http://host65.ipowerweb.com/~traditi2/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286

Here is one on tuning a handplane:

http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/plane_tune.shtml

The link for japanning seems to be no longer active. Here is another site:

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=handtools&file=articles_117.shtml

Regards from Perth

Derek

[DanP]

Thanks all.

Derek, as usual you are the guru of plane information. Next question - Where do I get asphaltum or gilsonite from.

Dan

[himzol]

Next question - Where do I get asphaltum or gilsonite from.

Hi Dan,

have you been able to source this stuff? I've been scouring the web and have only come accross one site that will sell me the stuff if I want 25 Kilos of it.

Himzo.

[goodwoody]

Has anybody tried that "Oromond' black jack paste or brushing form from the local harware stores. It reads on the tin as a bitumen based product used for sealing tanks and gutters. Try it, maybe it works.

[outback]

How about using some old 78's from Als craporium as a japaning substitute.

I think he may even be marketing the stuff as "I can't believe its not japaning" :D

[Alastair]

FWIW

While not germane to this discussion, a point to consider in case anyone has the burning compulsion to go out and japan other tools, particularly those made of high carbon steel, (and this could include chisels, spanners)

My recollection of the tempering point for many of these steels is in the region of 180-200"C. Derek's link refers to baking at 400-450'F, which is over 200'C. Would one not be in danger of drawing out the temper, and being left with a 'too soft' tool?

[davo453]

If that’ paste is the same stuff that I used on a water tank it stays tacky, you might end up with a plane stuck on your hand and or covered in a pile of shavings :eek:

Dave

[himzol]

I think he may even be marketing the stuff as "I can't believe its not japaning"

I don't think anybody will be able to taste the difference. :D

H.

[Sturdee]

How about using some old 78's from Als craporium as a japaning substitute.


I've used it and I'm happy with it.

Peter.

[NewLou]

Dan heres an excellent article by Bob Smalser on restoring old handplanes............hope it helps ;)

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=8243

Regards Lou

[chook]

Time Life Pulications (ph 1300 364 437) have a video called "Shop Secrets of the Master Craftsmen" which has a section devoted to exactly the problem of restoring old hand planes and which I found very interesting. The video is worth getting as it also has sections on other interesting topics such as jigs for a table saw. The section on cutting dovetails is interesting if only for the fact that the demonstrator cuts a clean set of dovetails without using either a dovetail marker, a bevel gauge or a square.

[numbat]

Chook,

Out of curiosity how much is the video (and is it available on DVD)?

For others out there - can they recommend any WW DVD's.

Cheers

[himzol]

I've used it and I'm happy with it.

Peter,

Did you air dry it or was it baked on after application?

Himzo.

[Sturdee]

Peter,

Did you air dry it or was it baked on after application?

Himzo.


Just air dried.

I used two coats about a month ago on the planes I am restoring and no problems. If it is not shiny enough you can always give it an additional coat of Ubeats hard shellac for a final finish.


Peter.

[chook]

Chook,

Out of curiosity how much is the video (and is it available on DVD)?

For others out there - can they recommend any WW DVD's.

Cheers
It did not cost me anything since Santa (alias my wife) got it for me for christmas a few years ago. I think she saw an ad for it on TV and rang up.

[John Saxton]

Yep Chook, Fine WW do some but also do some on CD Rom.

DVD Fine WW video tips vol 1
Making Jigs and Fixtures on CD ROM
The Best of Fine Woodworking on CD ROM

There are a multitude of WW videos that no doubt will be replicated on DVD.
I know as I have about 80 of them.

Cheers HTH :)

[himzol]

Just air dried.

I used two coats about a month ago on the planes I am restoring and no problems. If it is not shiny enough you can always give it an additional coat of Ubeats hard shellac for a final finish.


Peter.


Thanks Peter,

I'm not really worried about the shiny aspect, I mainly want to protect the thing from getting rusty again.
Now I just need to find a local supply of 78's with the right properties.

I'm still going to try and find a supplier of gilsonite though, I have few more planes coming my way, not sure of their condition, they have been in storage for a few years.

thanks again.

Himzo.

[Sturdee]

Now I just need to find a local supply of 78's with the right properties.



Try a local op shop or contact Al's Craporium. :D They may do mail order.


Peter.

[DanP]

Himzo,

Try this mob. I haven't bought any and i've got no idea how much it is or the quantities.

CLICK HERE (http://www.swiftco.com.au/swift/surface-coatings-australia.htm)

Dan

[himzol]

Thanks Dan,

This was one fo the first places I checked. Their minimum quantity is 25kg, I didn't ask about the price as the quantity would be ridiculous for me, and they don't have sample packs.
I'm going to try a few other places around SA before I move further out. It would be nice to be able to go "down the road" and just pick this stuff up.

I'm going to try some specialty paint suppliers and enameling places as well.

Himzo.

[ozwinner]

Ok!!

Looks like Ive got to get the thinking cap on, and come up with selling small quantitys of Japaning goop.

Al :)

[DanP]

Himzo,

You can buy it by the quart from the US. It seems dear though US$26 a quart + post.

LINK HERE (http://www.libertyonthehudson.com/pontypool.htm)
Dan

[vsquizz]

FWIW

My recollection of the tempering point for many of these steels is in the region of 180-200"C. Derek's link refers to baking at 400-450'F, which is over 200'C. Would one not be in danger of drawing out the temper, and being left with a 'too soft' tool?
Short answer Nope. Carbon/Tool Steels will need to hit 450 to 550 Deg C before you significantly alter the carbides.

Cheers

[himzol]

Ok!!

Looks like Ive got to get the thinking cap on, and come up with selling small quantitys of Japaning goop.

Al :)


Sorry Al,

I managed to find a place in Adelaide which is ordering in the asphaltum for me 500mil for just under $20. I'll let you guys know how it works when I get it.
In the mean time I have two more projects added to the list on the weekend. A coffee table to replace one sold to sister in law and a blancket box for said sister in law. she may wind up paying for my lathe or leigh D4. :D

Himzo


Himzo.

[DanP]

Himzo,

Details please. Is it liquid or powder form?

Dan

[himzol]

Himzo,

Details please. Is it liquid or powder form?

Dan


As soon as I get it, I will let you guys know. All they said to me was 500mil, whether thats milli-grams or milli-liters I'm not sure.

Himzo.

[Sturdee]

How about using some old 78's from Al's craporium as a japanning substitute.



Here are some photo's of planes refinished with Al's famous black shellac.


Peter.

[himzol]

Here are some photo's of planes refinished with Al's famous black shellac.


Peter.

Peter,

Great work, I hope mine turns out that well.

Himzo.

[himzol]

Got a call from the mob that I ordered the Asphaltum from, it turns out to be the same stuff you can get from Bunnies etc. Just the bitumised paint stuff.

Lucky I have a toxic load of Al's formulae gurgling in the shed just waiting to be unleashed :D , I can only hope that the planes yet to come don't need to much attention to the jappaning.

BTW I'm not sure if anybody has formally thanked AL for posting this dicovery, if not then THANKS AL, if they have, then add my name to the list.


meanwhile the search continues

Himzo.

[silentC]

Try this guy: http://www.e-artstore.com.au/

When I was looking for it, he had it on his site but I can't find it now. Might be worth a call or email to find out. It's used in printing apparently.

[Sturdee]

It's listed in his pricelist. Item no E022 Asphaltum powder 1 Lb @ $ 17.60.

I thought of getting it from them at the time but then Al made his now famous discovery and I used that instead. :D


Peter.

[Lucas]

For those that were interested i got a 1lb tin of Asphaltum Power from http://www.e-artstore.com.au/ think it was $17
last me a life time i think
will let you know how i go re japaning the planes i have