Best Chisel Query

[bloggs1968]

Hi all,

looking around for some decent bevel edge and mortise chisels. Besides the stanley and marples(now Irwin), I was considering Robert Sorby's from MIK but I have read that they don't hold an edge very well. This leads to a couple of queries,

1. Has anyone used sorby's chisels and are they any good?

2. What other brands are considered to be better than the marples/stanley (that are either available in OZ or to OZ)?

3. What are peoples favourites and why?

I am not considering Japanese chisels yet but would welcome any feedback on them also - particulary on their suitability for OZ hardwoods.

regards,

Andrew

[JackoH]

You talking about turning, carving or carpentry?Or have I missed something?:confused:

[silentC]

I think you've missed something John. He's unlikely to want bevel edge and mortice chisels for turning.

Andrew, there's a bit of a discussion on this subject that might help in the latter parts of this thread: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7806

[JackoH]

Sorry Silent. It was the reference to Robert Sorby that put me off (I thought they only make turning tools.) :confused:

[derekcohen]

Andrew

The topic of best chisel/best value came up on another forum recently. One recommendation was to get Hirsch chisels since these are apparently identical to Two Cherries chisels (but at a much lower price), the other top choice.

Now this info may be known to you already since the person asking the question was also called Andrew!!

Anyway, they will need to be purchased from the USA. Still, they seem to be very reasonably priced (set of 6 for $87 USD). The website is

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=46403&category=1,41504&ccurrency=2&SID=

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bloggs1968]

Hi Derek,

Thanks for the reply. If you are talking about the Woodcentral msg board - yeah, that was me. I see that The Wood Works in Sydney have Two Cherries for pretty much the same price as some of the links on Woodcentral. I have just ordered a 1" Sorby from MIK and I am going to give it a thrashing to see how its edge holding ability stands up. I'll probably do the same with a two cherries before I make up my mind.

I don't mind sharpening but I would like to cut it down to the minimum.

regards,

Andrew

[goodwoody]

Heh people luckily I'm living in Japan now and have become friends with the local tool supplier, who also speaks English quite well. To tell the truth i would never buy a western style chisel again after using these beautifully crafted chisels and saws. The cost is a little expensive for some but you are paying for hundreds of years and several generations experience in tool manufacturing.
Some people ask about the difference between tools, I cant explain it but the feel is unbelievable.
If anyone has any queries let me know.

[Robert WA]

I don't have an answer for Andrew. My chisels range from ordinary through to paint tin openers apart from a couple of old timers I picked up in junk shops.

I do have a question. In all the discussion there has been no mention of Pfeil chisels stocked by The Woodworks Book and Tool Company in Sydney and Meadowbanks.

http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/

They are priced at about twice the cost of an equivalent Stanley and there seems to be good range.

Does anyone out there know anything about them?

[Robert WA]

Chisels - Part 2.

The supplier I pointed to in my previous post has a big range of other brand and no-brand chisels in addition to Stanley and Pfeil.

I was in the Sydney store some years ago. For the WA members, it was a bit like WA Salvage, but on steroids. There seemed to be more stock in boxes on the floor than on the shelves.

Maybe I was there on a bad day.

[derekcohen]

Robert

Pfeil chisels have a phenomenal reputation among carvers and turners. But I have not seen or heard of Pfeil chisels for other woodworking purposes.

Your description of The Woodworks Book and Tool Company, of which my contact has only been via the internet (I have had some very warm and helpful emails from the owner), sound like Franklins supermarket 17 years ago when we lived in Sydney. Boxes everywhere. Organised chaos.

When are you next in Perth?

Regards

Derek

[Dan]

There have been a few posts lately that have mentioned heat treating steel for various purposes. So I was wondering. Could an ordinary chisel be turned into a good chisel by re-treating the steel? How about metal spraying (back only) to produce a similar result to a laminated tool?


Dan

[Robert WA]

Derek.

If price is a guide then Pfeif chisels should be significantly better than Stanley, twice as good in fact. I will be over east in May - June and may get to Sydney to see my son. If so, I will get into the shop, have a second look and, maybe, buy one to give it the torture test. I remember that they had a good range of books there so the trip would not be wasted.

As to Perth. I will be there for the WW Show in August but have no other plans at this stage, other than passing through in transit.

[derekcohen]

Could an ordinary chisel be turned into a good chisel by re-treating the steel? wrote Dan

Yes, it is possible to retemper the steel. I provided some links in this regard in an earlier post. Search them out.

But you cannot recreate a "laminated tool" without rebuilding the steel itself. The laminations in Japanese (and early Stanley plane blades) are made up of a very hard layer (for cutting) and a soft layer (to add strength to the brittle hard layer).

A Japanese chisel blade looks like that below. Note the different colours of the hard and soft steels in the blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dan]

The laminations in Japanese (and early Stanley plane blades) are made up of a very hard layer (for cutting) and a soft layer (to add strength to the brittle hard layer).

I'm not 100% familiar with the metal spraying process but I thought it was meant to achieve the same result that you mention i.e, a thin hard/tough layer of metal bonded to a softer base metal.
http://www.metalpowders.com.au/spraypowders/flmespry.htm

[derekcohen]

Dan

The advantage of laminating is really lies with sharpening. You are replacing about half the hard steel (and it is very hard) with softer steel. This makes it easier (ie quicker) to sharpen. A traditional Western alternative is to hollow grind a blade, but the disadvantage here is that you lose steel which could be supporting the cutting edge. There were laminated blades made in the USA for Stanley early last Century, but this was to save hard (expensive) steel, in pther words a cost-effective issue.

There is no advantage of adding another layer to a steel blade unless you are bulking up a plane blade to reduce chatter (you may notice that all the better planes have thicker blades, the HNT GOrdon for example is 1/4" thick). The problem here is retro-fitting it into a plane body. Of course you could try this out on a plane of your own manufacture. But all this is not what you are after.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bob w]

In all the discussion on chisels I have not seen any mention of the Bahco brand. I have had a set of red handle Bahco (or fish brand as I have heard them called) for 20 odd years and have nothing but praise for them. They take and hold a keen edge the handles are indestructable (although naturally I only strike them with a wooden mallet he, he,)and the only one I have had to replace was stolen.
Has anyone else used this brand and if so what is your opinion? :confused:

[nexusone]

I was given a set of four Toledo chisels from America 10 years ago by my Dad. I have looked after them well and they have given excellent service for general carpentry. Don't know if they still sell them.

Steve

[Wood Borer]

I have a set of Robert Sorby Chisels (Bevel Edge) and I find them very good. They seem to hold their edge OK.

Wood Borer

[derekcohen]

Bob

I seem to recall that Bahco bought out Sandvik and, from the distant past, are the "descendants" of Berg of Berg chisel fame. They have a good reputation.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Eastie]

Bob - I've got a set of sandvic 425 chisels(the wooden handled ones - aka bahco 425's). As you say they are good quality and from my experiences are better than others in that price range.