Sharpening Crown Turning Tools ?

[bocon007]

This is where my ignorance begins to show. My wife and I just took a turning class two weeks ago, and we have gethered all the basic stuff to start practicing.

We bought a beautiful set of Crown tools, a 6-inch Craftsman grinder, and a few other necessities.

About the grinder: Is there any recommended materials for sharpening these tools. My grinder is a double grinder, which came with two standard wheeles attached, one rough and one not so rough. Is this okay to sharpen the tools, or should we purchase additional elements that will allow us to hone as well as shape our tools?

Just a little advice, please, so I don't feel like such a heel when I visit the local woodcraft store.

Thanks in advance.

[Jim Carroll]

The grinder usually comes with grey wheels which are ok if you are just grinding steel. What you require is aluminium oxide wheels which are generally white and a grit of 80 or 120g.
These are a softer compound than the grey wheels and are better suited to the high speed steel you have in the tools you have purchased. These wheels are also suitable for any other high speed steel you have , drill bits , planer blades etc.

[arose62]

For honing, I use an MDF disc on my lathe. You can either screw onto a faceplate, or glue a block on the back to hold in a chuck.

Removable spray adhesive holds various grades of wet and dry paper to the disk.

Cheers,
Andrew

[foool64]

I to am a begginer and learnt a very valuable tip the other week, Dont grind your chisels away, HONE them on a rotary strop, or similar.....I bought a cheap rotary leather strop and what a difference it made, sharp as sharp can be in a single heart beat....I started off grinding for sharpness and only managed to wreck several tools, what a waste! It's nice to see the wood SHAVINGS rather than ummm...errrr dust....All the info on this forum is always worth considering.....COZ most have been there and ..ummmm wasted wood......I made enought dust to put out a oil fire........Till the mighty STROP...GL

[Jackson]

Bocon - For what it's worth, my advice would be to get someone to demonstrate how to grind tools before you try yourself, especially bowl gouges. It's very easy to ruin the temper of HSS and very easy to end up with a tool that is shorter but not sharper. I think you can read any number of articles about sharpening, but until you watch someone who knows what they are doing, it's difficult to pick up.

For years I also used carborundum oil stones and slip stones to hone tools and a diamond sharpener to hone blades as I turned. This is entirely acceptable and produces good sharp tools. However, my wife recently bought me a Japanese water stone and slipstone from Carbatec. The edge you can get on these is amazing. You can get them to such a fine grit you can have a mirror finish on the bevel. They're not cheap, but the finish is the best I've seen. You might want to consider these.

Hope this helps

[RETIRED]

With very few exceptions i don't hone, stone or strop turning tools.

On the grinder for about a second, off and use them.

My tools last about 2 years using them full time and we sharpen them up to 40-50 times a day.

Get some one who knows how to sharpen turning tools (as Jackson says)

Why spend more time sharpening than turning?

[Jim Carroll]

I agree with . All the extra work is for carving chisels that require the user to push through the timber.
With woodturning the timber is rotating and you use the tool as a cutter no pushing involved {unless you have very blunt tools}.
The grinder is there to put an edge on the tool not for you to stand there grinding away the tool or wasting more time than you have to. If the tool goes blue it usually means you have been sharpening for too long , you have not lost its temper , it has just got too hot. No problem keep workin as usual and when you resharpen next it will slowly grind away the blue part and still have the same temper through the tool.
Some of the older style tools and the cheaper chinese tools have a poor quality steel or carbon steel that require a lot more sharpening. In time replace these with good quality HSS tools. P&N are my preferance

:)

[foool64]

There is no doubt about it, good tools last longer and stay sharper, however, for a begginer i found the strop a lot easier than grinding. Mainly because i am a begginer and sharpening correctly is out of my reach for the moment, with time im sure it will come.....Until then, the strop provides a quick , sharp edge as im sure nobody will dispute, with-out ruining the tool angle. Thanx to i am trying to learn basic woodturning skills, he turned many a piece infront of me and i was in awe when i watched a pro......Thanx mate...SPLITTER...remember? hahahaha

[Bob Willson]

I have no experience at all when it comes to sharpening turning tools. However .. But, (according to the experts) stropping does NOT sharpen tools. Apparently, stropping only straightens out the cutting edge of a tool so that the cutting edge is aligned again. You still need to sharpen on a stone of some sort. The difference is that most of the time a resharpen is not required, just a blade realignment.

The information above was written primarily about knives but I fail to see how any other cutting implement could be different.

See http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqsharp-fundamentals.shtml

[Christopha]

If you hone your edge after grinding then your are merely creating a very much smaller bevel and then your turning is not as "Controllable"

If you strop then you have a very sharp but also, as far as turning goes, very blunt tool as you have rounded over the bevel.


and Jim are correct, the rest are not!

[foool64]

Sharp but yet blunt..hmm...i never did see a barber grind his shaver..or cut-throat as some may know it....But seen plenty of strop work goin on.....Login tells me sharp is umm well....SHARP
thanx

[Christopha]

Fool, my friend, if the very sharp, stropped and polished razorsharp edge is not and can not be presented to the work in a controlled manner then it may as well be as blunt as I am being here!
If you get my drift.

[foool64]

Christopha me ole mate, this is the kind of advice that i need, i am as i said a begginer and your experience is makin sense to me now. I am not trying to be a smarty pants, but one thing i have learnt over the years, is that a freindly debate brings out the best results. I am like my chisels, Not The Sharpest Tool in the shed..........I am starting to understand what you guys have been telling me, hopefully soon i will be able to sharpen tools myself (properly) and then gain some control. Thanx again for your advice as i know i cant buy experince or knowledge....Happy Turnin

[RETIRED]

I give in Foool. Where and when?

[foool64]

G'day me ole mate, tis only but me, Neil from Glen Syndal Tools...lol...Just gettin some very valuable advice from some senior members, and by the way, ya's were all correct. I went and got a grinder today and tried sharpening, well, cut off me legs an call me shorty, the SHAVINGS were flying.....Still got some learnin to do on angles but im sure nobody perfects it over-night.
Thanx again to all for the great advice:)

[RETIRED]

Ah so!! Welcome to the board.

[foool64]

Thanx mate, how ya been keepin, hope all is well...Maybe i might get down to see ya one day, not too far, narre warren here......ya got power-lines in yer street, if so how high roughly, dont wanna rip em down...lol.....thanx again and cya m8

[Christopha]

Foool...... you have got to change that nickname mate. If I have been of any help tis a pleasure and just what this forum is for.:D

[Jackson]

- when you grind a gouge, don't you get a small burr on the inside of the flute? Or is this OK? I've always used a slipstone to remove this in the belief the gouges cut better.

I do the same for flat chisels also, although it's not a burr, I believe it's a micro bend in the very end of the bevel.

The only things I use straight from the grinder are scrapers, cause I was once told the burr assisted the cutting.

Your advice would, as always, be appreciated.

Regards

[RETIRED]

- when you grind a gouge, don't you get a small burr on the inside of the flute? Or is this OK?

Yep but it dissappears in a nano second when you use the chisel.

I've always used a slipstone to remove this in the belief the gouges cut better.

I don't bother for the reasons stated above.

I do the same for flat chisels also, although it's not a burr, I believe it's a micro bend in the very end of the bevel.

It is a burr if you are sharpening correctly but it generally goes the same way. The only exception (remember I said that I only hone rarely, this is one time) is the final cuts on very soft timber with a skew.

The only things I use straight from the grinder are scrapers, cause I was once told the burr assisted the cutting.

It does but it soon dissappears too. I have never bothered to "turn up" or burr a scraper as I find that if it is sharp and you are taking fine cuts it works well as it is.

Hope this answers what you want to know.

[Jackson]

- Thanks mate - that all makes sense and answers my questions very well. I'll try your approach and see if I don't spend more time turning and less time sharpening.

The purchase of the Japanese water stones hasn't been a complete waste. I have the sharpest filleting knife I've ever had!

Thanks

[David Paterson]

I had a good suggestion from a turner in NZ last year.

Buy a couple of pieces of mild steel bar for the local steel shop and practice on them until you have getting the profile down pat. Then put your tools to the grinder.

Mild steel will cost only a few dollars for apiece 13 * 400 (About the size of a spindle gouge compared with the 30-60 you might pay for a tool, and the gringing posture and action are the same. (it wont burn as easily though).

[rsser]

There are some tweaks to all the good advice above.

Eg. for skews and parting tools, several passes with a paddle style diamond hone is less wasteful of your costly steel than using the grinder (and may be quicker depending on your grinder setup). BTW some turners believe that a hollow grind on a skew is not a good idea.

And using a slipstone on the flute of a gouge like the P&N can polish it in a way that the factory never bothered to and improve your edge (for interest, compare the factory finish of P&N flutes with a Sorby or Taylor).

Cheers,

Ern